Midflower Problems - topdressing not helping?

[rasterman]

Just wanted to thank you again. I think she's on the road to recovery - all thanks to you! If you hadn't taken the time to chime in, I really don't think she would have pulled through, and more importantly, I wouldn't have understood what was going on, or what I did to cause the issue.


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The one thing I miss most about hydro & coco compared to soil is the ability to fix issues fast. If there was a problem in hydro, I'd just do a res change. It's a little more difficult in soil, but this process made the most sense to me to fix things fast, so I decided late Sunday night after that I had to get her out of that super hot soil asap as she was just continuing to degrade more and more - so I did just that.


I ended up pulling her out and I tried to get all the old soil off of the rootball. I managed to get about 95% of it off, and transplanted her her into some fresh Strawberry Fields I had from the initial transplant - except I didn't add any amendments this time, only perlite. I was expecting her to have bad transplant shock from how much I handled the roots, however - there was no sign of shock at all. In fact, as soon as I got her into the fresh soil - the yellowing stopped almost instantly. I also decreased the light intensity a bit a raised it up a decent amount.

Today, she's looking much better, and she's not praying as heavily. I've lost a decent amount of the really badly burnt leaves on the bottom, and I'm sure I'll lose a few more as the days go by, but I'm not seeing any more yellowing or burning - which is great. She definitely still has lots of burnt tips/edges from all of this, but I think she'll at least make it across the line.


The only real issue I have now is I got a small amount of dirt on some of the flowers when I transplanting her into the clean soil. Trying to get as much of that off as I can. I'm hoping there's not too much stuck in the flowers.


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It's very clear to me that I was just preemptively feeding for no reason, anticipating the soil's nutrients had been used up when they obviously had not been. I've also learned that GG is a lot stronger than I thought it was.

I'm starting to think I could have probably gone through this entire grow now without amending the soil at all, and just sticking to the 2 transplants I did (solo cup -> 3gal. 3gal -> 5gal @ flip). I think I probably would have been just fine had I done that, and also kept the light up higher and decreased the intensity a bit. All important lessons.



Thanks again for the help Ron! You've saved her for me. I appriecate your time, help, and advice!

Here's some pics of her as of today

I've used the "soil replacement" method too, this summer for the same reason. I also was surprised by how well it worked.

 

[MellowRello]

Ron - I've looked through my notes. Here's a log of what I've done and when.

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9-25 - (veg) - 2tbsp GG Veg
10-18 - (veg) - Starting to yellow
10-24 - (veg) Transplanted her into a 5gal container. Stawberry Fields soil + perlite + EWC. 2tbsp GG Veg, 2tbsp GGBloom, 2tbsp Glacial Dust
10-27 - (veg) Growth resumes after transplant shock. Plant looks great, growing again


11-4 - Flipped to flower. She's been growing great, no more yellowing, no problems.

11-12 - Top dressed: 8tbsp of GG Veg, 8tbsp Bloom, 1tbsp Gypsum, 2tbsp Rock Dust, 1tbsp Epsom
11-26 - She's starting to show signs of yellowing
11-30 - Top Dressed: 10tbsp Bloom, 1tbsp Gypsum, 2tbsp Rock Dust, EWC tea I made.



That's pretty much where we are today. It looks like I haven't used recharge as much as I thought. I used it primarily in Veg, but according to my notes, I haven't used it in flower.


I see what you're saying here though - maybe it was the top dress on 11-12, that caused her to start yellowing on 11-26?


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I wish I had access to a soil testing kit. I looked around, no one around me has one in stock. I'd have to order it online, which wouldn't arrive for days.


I think you're right - I was looking through some of my very early veg notes, and it looks like 2-3 weeks after I topdressed in veg, is when the yellowing started. I think I've been just following these instructions I found online to topdress every 4 weeks or so - thinking I would keep the soil good to go, but in actuality the soil has been fine. I've just been adding too much on top trying to prevent issues, which takes 2-3 weeks to start breaking down and when it does, then it just burns the plants.

Yup.... Definitely a hard lesson to learn this far in. It's been a VERY long grow with all that work on the mainlining.





I think at this point, the only thing I can do is probably try to transplant her into some unammended soil + perlite, trying to get most of the existing hot soil out/off her - and see if she somehow recovers and doesn't herm out / die.

I'm not sure I can even flush all of this out of the soil at this point, I think I'd probably just drown her trying to flush.

Hey there, It looks like you went to light on the nutes at first and then way too far at the end, the yellowing at the end is probably lockout from nute toxicity.
This works for me in 5 gallons, each feeding lasts 3 weeks and then lower doses at the end every two weeks.
when up-potting to 5 gallon put 7Tbls 70/30 blend of GG AP and GG Power bloom. That's 5Tbl of 4-4-4 and 2Tbl of 2-8-4. IN THE SOIL not on top. They recommend 3T per gallon of soil but thats for large beds that only get fed once, it's too much.

Veg for 3 weeks, flip to flower.
Day one of flower top dress with 5Tbl 70/30 blend. (3.5T all purpose / 1.5T bloom) ( the first three weeks is growth not bloom)

Day 22 of flower (day 1 of week 4) (weeks 4-7 are early bloom, you want the N to be half of the P. A 50/50blend has an NPK of 3-6-4)
Top dress 5Tbl 50/50 blend.

Day 1 of week 7
This is where it gets tricky because depending on the cultivar of weed, there could be anywhere from 1-8 weeks left of flower.
I grow 12-13 week flowers so I do another smaller top dress of 50/50, about 3TBL

You want to increase the amount of Potassium in the ratio as they finish up. And there is no way to do that with Gaia Green (4-4-4 and 2-8-4 will give you a K of 4 no matter how you mix it.) So I finish with a 2-1 ratio...2 parts Roots Organics Terp Tea Bloom Boost to 1 part Terp Tea GRow. This is an NPK of 3.5-8-16 which is pretty damn good, the Nitrogen is less than half of the P, and the K is elevated.

So day one of week 9, I feed 2 *teaspoons* of the 2-1 terp tea blend.


Hope this helps.

 

[MellowRello]

Hey there, It looks like you went to light on the nutes at first and then way too far at the end, the yellowing at the end is probably lockout from nute toxicity.
This works for me in 5 gallons, each feeding lasts 3 weeks and then lower doses at the end every two weeks.
when up-potting to 5 gallon put 7Tbls 70/30 blend of GG AP and GG Power bloom. That's 5Tbl of 4-4-4 and 2Tbl of 2-8-4. IN THE SOIL not on top. They recommend 3T per gallon of soil but thats for large beds that only get fed once, it's too much.

Veg for 3 weeks, flip to flower.
Day one of flower top dress with 5Tbl 70/30 blend. (3.5T all purpose / 1.5T bloom) ( the first three weeks is growth not bloom)

Day 22 of flower (day 1 of week 4) (weeks 4-7 are early bloom, you want the N to be half of the P. A 50/50blend has an NPK of 3-6-4)
Top dress 5Tbl 50/50 blend.

Day 1 of week 7
This is where it gets tricky because depending on the cultivar of weed, there could be anywhere from 1-8 weeks left of flower.
I grow 12-13 week flowers so I do another smaller top dress of 50/50, about 3TBL

You want to increase the amount of Potassium in the ratio as they finish up. And there is no way to do that with Gaia Green (4-4-4 and 2-8-4 will give you a K of 4 no matter how you mix it.) So I finish with a 2-1 ratio...2 parts Roots Organics Terp Tea Bloom Boost to 1 part Terp Tea GRow. This is an NPK of 3.5-8-16 which is pretty damn good, the Nitrogen is less than half of the P, and the K is elevated.

So day one of week 9, I feed 2 *teaspoons* of the 2-1 terp tea blend.


Hope this helps.

Also Glacial Rock Dust takes a long time to break down and regardless of what Gaia Green claims, top dressing with it is pointless, put it all in the soil when transplanting.

 

[fishmon]

Hey guys,

This is my first time running organic soil and I keep running into issues about every 3-4 weeks. I was hoping this was going to be more straight forward with less to deal with compared to hydro or cocoa, but the problems keep coming and I'm not sure how to rectify the situation while sticking with organic.




The first time I saw issues was a week before flipping to flower. Yellowing of leaves / general issues. I was running Ocean Forest in a 3gal during veg when I first saw this. I've been using Gaia Green to top dress with per their instructions, as well as Glacial Rock Dust, Gypsum, Epsom, and also the occasional batch of recharge.

Top dressing didn't seem to do anything when I encountered this problem, so I figured my only real shot at fixing it was to transplant her into some new soil / a larger pot. She was not root bound. I transplanted her into a 5gal and put her in some Strawberry Fields soil amended with some Gaia Green and EWC. After a rough week of transplant shock - she sprung back to life and was looking great - until now. Things started taking a turn for the worse about a week ago, despite following the Gaia Green top dressing instructions.


I'm in w4 of flower now, and things are yellowing again badly. I have been top dressing with Gaia Green, Glacial Rock Dust, Gypsum, recharge, and also Epsom every couple weeks - per their instructions. I've also tried top dressing a couple of days ago with EWC and I also tried making a EWC tea that I had brewed. Maybe it's too early to tell notice anything, but she's continuing to worsen.




It's pretty clear that the top dressing / amendments I've been doing so far aren't working/giving her what she needs for whatever reason, and I'm not sure why. I've read so many people have great, smooth grows with minimal problems using GG.


She's starting to look pretty rough, and the yellowing is creeping up further and further - I'm not sure she's going to make it at this point.

The only real course of action I can think of is to try to transplant her into a larger 7gal with some new soil and see if that helps bring her back, but I'm reluctant to transplant this far into flower fearing to stress her out. Even if I do transplant her with minimal shock, I expect I'll be running into this same problem around week 7-8 of flower - which isn't going to be great either.



To me, this looks like a Nitrogen and maybe Mag deficiencies? I'm not really sure what I should do to correct the problems quickly and keep it from continuing to occur or worsen, and why the Gaia Green isn't seeming to give her what she needs.


Any tips/help/advice? Thanks much!

2 things I'd add.. soil,dust,hair,etc can be removed by washing. Struggling with light intensity can be greatly reduced, if not eliminated, by using the Photone app. Once calibrated to a specific light, it will guide you very close to your desired PPFD, DLI, etc. ios requires a $6.00 charge to unlock the full spectrum and android is already unlocked. As Dr. Bugbee says, light is the keys to the race car.