Mitt Romney Marijuana Views Echo Long Progressive History Of U.S. Drug War

[NaturalTherapy]

You are misguided if you believe this. Period.

I usually go off on a diatribe, but that's it this time. You're just plain wrong.

He's not wrong, he just has had a life experience that you can't understand because you haven't had the same experiences. Your diatribes don't make you "right", it just delineates your line of thinking... I have mixed feelings, one side says wow, Squiggly will have to fall hard before he ever understands anything he can't quantify with an equation, the other side says, I wish I my perceptions were so dichotic, black and white. That sounds like an insult, but please recognize I don't mean it as such nor do I intend any offense, I just don't understand when people defend their opinions as if they are defending themselves (they are different), while doubly refusing to accept any points of view purporting positions that don't reinforce whatever one has learned in the classroom

Two quotes are flooding my mind at the moment:

Thoreau: The creature of institutions, bigoted and a conservativist, can say nothing hearty. He cannot meet life with life, but only with words.

Goethe: None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free


You're a trip Squiggly, be well brother
That's all from me

 

[NaturalTherapy]

I respect all of you and your opinions and may your horse win in November. Unfortunately the govt is broke and outdated and my horse isn't running so I'm going to do the best I can with what I've got.

I should have just said this!!

 

[sanvanalona]

Yeah marijuana has been available my whole life too, but I have about a dozen good friends in prison right now because of it and I can only see more coming if Mitt gets elected, heroin albeit very illegal is available too I could give a shit though as I enjoy herb, and love the difference of buying from a dispensary or especially growing my own and being able to do this without harassment, does anyone really want to revert back to pre prop 215? I mean shit the quality and availability of genetics alone should make us all fight til we die for this, assuming you all have the same love for the herb as myself. We need to move forward.....thats all.

 

[squiggly]

I respect all of you and your opinions and may your horse win in November. Unfortunately the govt is broke and outdated and my horse isn't running so I'm going to do the best I can with what I've got.

None of our horses are running, dude. My only suggestion has been to say that the best you can do with what you've got is voting for Obama. It would take a blind man not to see this.

Charles Bukowski said: "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

I think that quote defines republicans and democrats.

For YEARS, republicans have had a very strong base of total wack-jobs. They are riled up, they BELIEVE in the message of the GOP. It is a clear message. This is God's country. For many people this is an easy message to get behind.

The democrats message is NOT unified in this way--so what you end up with is a HUGE SWATH of people who would normally lean left, but as a result of their doubts don't vote AT ALL, because for some reason they believe this is better.

The trick to elections anymore is not voting for the best guy--that guy isn't in the running. The trick is to vote for the guy who will do the least damage, the guy who will encourage progressiveness (not necessarily just by his policies, but by showing the other side--"hey, this guy can get elected--we maybe need to come a bit closer to the center.

This country has flourished when it has lived in the center--and its generally only done that under democratic presidents. That isn't to say they've all been good, they haven't--they've just been consistently better for the political atmosphere.

Its no different now. If Obama stays, it will send a message to the GOP that perhaps the scare tactics and propaganda need to cool out. If he leaves--it will reward these tactics and policies of that side. This is not acceptable.

Obviously there are a lot of issues to have stances on, and Ron Paul did have some really favorable ones. However that's not the question anymore dude.

The question is very simply:

Will you vote for the guy you think will do the best?

or

Will you, through your inaction, vote for the guy who wins--no matter who that is.


Be it Obama, or Romney--at least cast your vote. It is your duty as a citizen.

 

[squiggly]

He's not wrong, he just has had a life experience that you can't understand because you haven't had the same experiences. Your diatribes don't make you "right", it just delineates your line of thinking... I have mixed feelings, one side says wow, Squiggly will have to fall hard before he ever understands anything he can't quantify with an equation, the other side says, I wish I my perceptions were so dichotic, black and white.

No offense taken. I am a black and white thinker--I always have been.

Luckily for me, in the world--generally things either are a way, or they aren't that way. For all the grey area people seem to reference in various situations, not all that much really exists.

Gray area is generally just a space wherein we haven't yet separated the black and white from one another (i.e. we don't know yet).

I believe he IS wrong, all that said. He suggests that it won't be any worse under Romney than it is under Obama--and Gov. Romney's OWN COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS strongly counter this claim. Romney has said as much himself.

Unless his life experience involves being transported into the future where Romney has won and implemented favorable MJ policies--then his experiences do not have bearing on this argument.

What we have to work with is the following:

What Obama has done, and what Romney has said he will do.

Obama, despite all the moaning and bitching--has done PRECISELY what he said he would do with EVERY step on MMJ policy.

Romney, has said himself that he will go much further to combat this "problem" than Obama has. I don't know how the hell that can ever translate to better or the same--when considering how the drug war is carried out in this country.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, of course, but the proof will be in the pudding if this dude gets elected. In that way I hope I never get to prove myself right. However, if he does win--and the indictments do start rolling in--PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE expect me to come back here and shove it in everyone's face that I was, in fact, right.

If and when that happens, I will be a total 3 year old about it--that is a promise, and not like a Bush family promise where I say I'll do something and then I never do or say I won't do something and then do it hardcore style (read my lips?). Like a for real promise: If Romney gets all crazy with MJ policy I will be here laughing my ass of in every single thread about it and wishing indictments as their just deserves on any grower who voted for him.

 

[putembk]

None of our horses are running, dude. My only suggestion has been to say that the best you can do with what you've got is voting for Obama. It would take a blind man not to see this.

Charles Bukowski said: "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

I think that quote defines republicans and democrats.

For YEARS, republicans have had a very strong base of total wack-jobs. They are riled up, they BELIEVE in the message of the GOP. It is a clear message. This is God's country. For many people this is an easy message to get behind.

The democrats message is NOT unified in this way--so what you end up with is a HUGE SWATH of people who would normally lean left, but as a result of their doubts don't vote AT ALL, because for some reason they believe this is better.

The trick to elections anymore is not voting for the best guy--that guy isn't in the running. The trick is to vote for the guy who will do the least damage, the guy who will encourage progressiveness (not necessarily just by his policies, but by showing the other side--"hey, this guy can get elected--we maybe need to come a bit closer to the center.

This country has flourished when it has lived in the center--and its generally only done that under democratic presidents. That isn't to say they've all been good, they haven't--they've just been consistently better for the political atmosphere.

Its no different now. If Obama stays, it will send a message to the GOP that perhaps the scare tactics and propaganda need to cool out. If he leaves--it will reward these tactics and policies of that side. This is not acceptable.

Obviously there are a lot of issues to have stances on, and Ron Paul did have some really favorable ones. However that's not the question anymore dude.

The question is very simply:

Will you vote for the guy you think will do the best?

or

Will you, through your inaction, vote for the guy who wins--no matter who that is.


Be it Obama, or Romney--at least cast your vote. It is your duty as a citizen.

Not jumping in squig. You don't know me or my finical situation therefore you cannot speak for me nor change my mind. No disrespect to you are any on the farm. Obama is giving out entitlements just to get votes and the last time I checked we were broke. Please leave my out I am going to end up saying something that will offend a member and I DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE. PEACE.

 

[squiggly]

Not jumping in squig. You don't know me or my finical situation therefore you cannot speak for me nor change my mind. No disrespect to you are any on the farm. Obama is giving out entitlements just to get votes and the last time I checked we were broke. Please leave my out I am going to end up saying something that will offend a member and I DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE. PEACE.

I don't feel disrespected. I don't believe that I attempted to speak for you either--and I certainly don't think I said anything about your financial situation.

If you feel that Obama's entitlement spending is a problem--then perhaps that's a place where you stand with Romney.

What I've been suggesting here isn't that you should "change your mind".

All I'm saying is that regardless of whether or not you vote, you are still voting.

Not casting a vote for the better candidate is essentially casting a vote for the worst one (if the worst one wins).

I believe Obama is the best but that is my opinion. I haven't tried to change yours. I said vote for either one of them. Just understand that by not voting, you are still affecting the outcome. You don't get to just not vote and then pretend as though you had nothing to do with it. We all have something to do with it, and not voting is as important and impactful a decision as voting one way or the other.

All I'm suggesting is that if you don't like either of them (and many people are in that situation), and you choose not to vote, you have essentially cast your vote for the winner--because your choice was to do nothing to impede their election when you did have a voice to do so.

This is WHY it is your duty as a citizen to vote. HOW you vote (if at all) is up to you--but don't think for a second that choosing not to vote absolves you of any involvement with choosing the next president. As an American you are implicitly involved as soon as you reach voting age--win, lose, or do nothing--each has its effect.

All this should suggest to anyone is that if you don't like either of them, you should try really hard to decide which one you think is the better of the two. Failing that--you have voted for the winner, congratulations!!!

 

[SmokeS]

I don 't like or believe Obama but I will vote for him no matter how much I despise the facts. Romney comes off like a shady used car salesmen, i feel like i'm being sold when I hear him speak rather then being persuaded by truth. Obama has a fake smile as well but Romney's is covered in cheese. Though the present situation is screwed up i'm sure it can be worse with Romney in charge. "Democracy" is still better then Fascism.

 

[sky high]

I wouldn't vote for Romney because I've yet to hear him give credit where credit is due for his hair. I knew I'd seen that doooo before...

http://devo-obsesso.com/html/gear_pgs/plastics/reissueblackpomp.html

 

[kolah]

It's all smoke and mirrors, comrades.

 

[squiggly]

I don 't like or believe Obama but I will vote for him no matter how much I despise the facts. Romney comes off like a shady used car salesmen, i feel like i'm being sold when I hear him speak rather then being persuaded by truth. Obama has a fake smile as well but Romney's is covered in cheese. Though the present situation is screwed up i'm sure it can be worse with Romney in charge. "Democracy" is still better then Fascism.

Spoken like a true democrat :)

End of the day this is what we're stuck with. Is Obama the best president ever? Nope. Did he do some great things? Sure. Have they all been great? I'd say he could've handled the political atmosphere a bit better--but overall I like what he's done.

I think as far as MMJ goes he's stuck to his word and not gone after anyone who was following state law. Say what you will, but the DEA has provided compelling evidence in just about every case the something extra-legal was going on in the dispensaries which have come under fire.

This could be as simple as one person selling one bag to one guy who didn't have a medical card. All it takes to shut down and seize a gas station is one alcohol or tobacco sale to anyone who wasn't carded and is underage--I don't see why MMJ should be above that.

I think in terms of democratic policies, Obama is not the champion we all wanted--but Romney is a total shithead and will make a far worse mess than we've got already.

Newsflash, you guys--8 years of republican policy landed us in this fiscal nightmare. No amount of hand wringing or shit talking is going to magically make that Obama's fault. No amount of bitching or whining will have made it possible for ANY PRESIDENT to fix in 4 years what it took 8 for a previous president to destroy. That is NOT HOW IT WORKS in politics. Even BEFORE the hosing market crashed--our economy was performing quite poorly under G.B.

Generally, you wait 8 years AFTER a presidency to feel the effects of a president. That is what made G.B. so astoundingly terrible. He managed to tank the whole fuckin country before he even left office.

Whereas, for example, Bill Clinton benefited (image wise) from Reagan's exceptional handling of the economy--and I might add, his tax plan--which is the same tax plan Obama proposed earlier this year only to be shot down by republicans. When Obama told everyone that it was the gipper's tax plan--jaws dropped. He really made the GOP look like shit on that one--by essentially proving that the GOP isn't governing, they are just voting no on anything democrats suggest.

I really want people to realize that this is essentially because the new version of "trickle down" the GOP has enacted will never work--and it didn't work for those 8 years.

It worked for Reagan because those tax breaks went to just about everyone, and because the big corporate tax breaks were purposely directed at corporations who would "play ball" with this new economic plan. It worked out really well then, but now is a different scenario. This is writing carte blanche to corporations and extremely wealthy people to pay almost no taxes whatsoever.

It's unfair. Did you earn your money? Absolutely. Would you have earned that much in Ethiopia? Not if your life depended on it (and it would). So we PAY IN TO that. Most of us at a rate near 30%--the GOP is solely in the past few years about seeing that rate drop for the wealthiest Americans and for the biggest businesses.

30% is and should be the going rate--regardless of your financial situation. If you are successful you are so because you are here, and not somewhere else. That costs a little bit--and it shouldn't cost proportionally less for the people who end up with the most money. Perhaps an argument can be made for various businesses in this sense, but not for individuals or families.

If you can't afford the million dollar mansion if you pay 30% instead of 15% then newsflash--you can't afford a million dollar mansion AND be a good American at the same time.

They've had to pick one or the other, and their choice is clear.

Obama may not be the best. But better is more favorable than worse--and that is what Romney is.

 

[fishwhistle]

squig ,you have got to be the most divisive person on this site,no one can be right or express a differing opinion but you.Best of luck,Im out.

 

[squiggly]

squig ,you have got to be the most divisive person on this site,no one can be right or express a differing opinion but you.Best of luck,Im out.

Fishwhistle--you always have some shit to talk yourself, homie.

I can't remember the last time I stated MY opinion without you having something negative to say about my character.

"Hi pot, my name is kettle. I'm black."

"Oh, you too?"

We've been over this, your opinion is meaningless to me. We don't agree. We aren't going to start.

Get over it.

 

[ttystikk]

squig ,you have got to be the most divisive person on this site,no one can be right or express a differing opinion but you.Best of luck,Im out.

Seriously? Since you can't actually refute any of his points on their merits, you're going to take a shot at his character?

Squiggly may have positions that many here disagree with, but he does something most republicans can't; make a solid argument for his position, and how it will HELP the country, not just fatcat constituents at the expense of the common good of the country.

fishwhistle, step up with a reasonable argument and I'll be the first to give you credit for it- but that last crack was childish, churlish (look it up) and intellectually bankrupt.

 

[putembk]

Just like I said...the insults and hateful remarks are AGAIN right behind. Who here has changed their mind since this thread started???
I might vote for Clinton or even Bush Sr. So today I am neither liberal or conservative but one thing I do know is if we don't stop spending money we don't have China is going to own (already does) own us.

I do wish prime was at about 6%.

 

[fishwhistle]

"So today I am neither liberal or conservative but one thing I do know is if we don't stop spending money we don't have China is going to own (already does) own us."
I agree 100% with this statement putmbk.
TTY,Refuting anything with that kid is a losing battle and a waste of breath and like i said im not gonna do it anymore,i wished him the best of luck and i meant it.Im sorry you think im churlish and that you think i might need to "look it up" but i guess its your right to beleive what you want,have a great day.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

Squiggly brings up great points, and they are logical and all that... but for me they don't speak to the reality of the situation as I perceive it. In my experience, politics is the business of keeping the status quo for the wealthiest people on Earth, and figuring out ways to manage the proletariate without them feeling like cattle. Political office is just a tool, money another tool, in the task of manipulating a group of conditioned individuals into a place of superiority over the group of unconditioned individuals, in order to keep a few large families from ever having to give up their claims of land and title.

So, in dealing with only the perception of the office, I would say that, Yes, Obama does appear to be the choice to vote for if you are conditioned to believe that the President is the seat of power in America, and also aren't one of the wealthiest folks in America. That statement seems valid to me.

What I notice is that the wealthiest people in America don't argue over who is President, they laugh at the illusion while offering campaign contributions to get these folks elected. Do you think these so-called elites would fund and support anyone they thought could topple their reign? No man born a King ever said, "Ok, I have enough", that wasn't written into history as a revolutionary champion of the people.

I don 't like or believe Obama but I will vote for him no matter how much I despise the facts. Romney comes off like a shady used car salesmen, i feel like i'm being sold when I hear him speak rather then being persuaded by truth. Obama has a fake smile as well but Romney's is covered in cheese. Though the present situation is screwed up i'm sure it can be worse with Romney in charge. "Democracy" is still better then Fascism.

This is funny
It seems to me that you are being sold something, and theses two cats are selling the same product, with different sales tactics. So it seems to me the fact that you feel better about Obama's fake smile says more about who you will comfortably accept lies from than anything else. Maybe you're right, and those perceiving this endeavor may feel more comfortable with Obama at the helm, but I maintain that perceptions matter little when confronted with the reality of it. But the point I want to make is that trusting that the President has much to do with the direction this country takes is the farce you are buying into.

And the truth is, we're all just offering our perception, our ideas or beliefs regarding the reality of the situation. It's my contention that real power is a small round table thing, and government leaders are mere paupers at this table. How you regard and interpret a perspective that challenges your perspective, reveals only how the intellectual connection you have to your ideas relates to your sense of self-- and says nothing actually about the truth of any matter at hand. I wouldn't necessarily call him divisive, but I think what bothers people is the abrasive, superior tone Squiggly- among others- take, but if you haven't accepted that for what it is by now, just stop reading his/their posts and you won't upset yourself. I like Squiggly's contributions because you can count on his hardline, fundamentalist materialist viewpoints to stay consistent. So what if he makes a better chemist than a philosopher...

In other words, I and not challenging you. My ideas may challenge your ideas if you have a strong sense of self related to your perspective.

Don't get angry, they are just ideas.
I respect and appreciate you all, and disagree with you just as much hahaha

 

[sanvanalona]

Squiggly brings up great points, and they are logical and all that... but for me they don't speak to the reality of the situation as I perceive it. In my experience, politics is the business of keeping the status quo for the wealthiest people on Earth, and figuring out ways to manage the proletariate without them feeling like cattle. Political office is just a tool, money another tool, in the task of manipulating a group of conditioned individuals into a place of superiority over the group of unconditioned individuals, in order to keep a few large families from ever having to give up their claims of land and title.

So, in dealing with only the perception of the office, I would say that, Yes, Obama does appear to be the choice to vote for if you are conditioned to believe that the President is the seat of power in America, and also aren't one of the wealthiest folks in America. That statement seems valid to me.

I like this post. It was well thought out and well put, I must also say I understand and agree to a degree with what you are saying. Yes, I do believe that many "large" decisions are based around a few and their wants/ perceived needs and yes I do think that conspiracies exist, but I believe they too have limits. What I mean is I think there is a balance between the "illuminati" if you will and the people that are the helm of government, if you do not think they are one in the same. I think there are limitations upon our governments due to the financial interests of a few, for example, the continuation of Afghanistan only seems to me to be fulfilling some sort of military industrial contract, I have no other idea why we would still be there especially since Osama was killed over a year ago. I guess balance for conspiracies comes in the way of human nature for me: like plants humans are nearly impossible to predict, nature and nurture play the most pivotal roles in the making of a persons character but I never count out human variation. I say this because to take the conspiracy theory all the way one would have to assume that the "powers that be" have some way of passing on the "plan" to their offspring, but to do this without error just seems impossible to me. Therefore, while I think that these powerful people have a lot to do with the inner workings of most governments, I believe their ultimate focus to be on money as power seems to be somewhat fleeting. That said, I take a look at the politics of America and at the most basic points their are evident factors that must be considered; Although, America has only 2 parties with any power and at times they seem identical there are difference between the two: dems have for the last 100 years been the makers of social acts such as medicare, social security, welfare, pell grants, etc., whereas, the repubs have been overtly on the side of big business with an awkward social agenda disguised as "christianity". That said, I will vote for any party that is on the side of the common man even if it is only to a small degree.

Sorry for the rant, I love conspiracy theories and ideas.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

That's no rant, many great points!

Honestly, I have a hard time with this consensus reality game.
Part of me feels like global power is the lie our governments feed us to keep us in check- like those signs in stores that say you are under video surveillance, which prevent 90% of folks from behaving illegally, when really no cameras exist.
However, another part of me has seen some incongruities I just can't incorporate into the working model of reality that is sold to us during education, and reinforced via entertainments and acceptable public discourse without invoking these notions of hidden hand power....my point about Black/White perception is that it's only valid for perceiving mundane phenomena. Anywhere else, if your position does't contain contradictions, you're tools of perception lack in recognizing complexity.

Fuck it... Oprah 2012..... she can sell anything

 

[SmokeS]

"Fuck it... Oprah 2012..... she can sell anything"

Fuckin Funny. Romney would have no chance.

@Squiggly- I'm a democrat only online and paper. I think that its all just a show and like a stage we only see what they have been working so hard to create. I'm Independent at heart, democrat is my alter-ego so I can vote in the primaries.:)