More Wattage Led

[Tejashidrow]

before LEDs I was a hps grower
The adage was :
More watts
More buds....
I understand 25 watts per square foot is good for led.
Is there anyone useing the more watts more buds with LEDs???
I.e. Over 25 watts psf
Thanks...00

 

[ken dog]

Yes. ..During flower, up to 75 watts per square foot... That is without supplemental HPS lighting. I found that the light footprint of an LED is basically the same as the footprint of the fixture itself.
At least to get the results I was looking for.

 

[PhatNuggz]

It's not about watts, it's about how many umoles those watts produce. With many/most leds you can have 50-75w/sft but not get near the umoles of a high-intensity led.

I am using 220w Amare Technologies SE 220 (new models SE 250) in a 3 x 3= 9sf . Divide 220 by 9 sft= ~ 24 watts/sft

 

[Tejashidrow]

@ken dog
Here's a part why I ask
My bloom area was 2 square feet
I had a DIY cob useing 2-Cree cxa 3070's driven at 50 watts each (100 watt total)
I've bumped my grow area up to 4 square feet but still useing the same above fixture, so now it's 25 watts psf, with a bad foot print.
I want to bump up to at least 200 watt ( maybe more???) by adding. 2- cxa 3590,s.
Is there a way to measure umoles
@PhatNuggz ?
Thanks to both for your input
Peace

 

[ken dog]

It's actually moles...umole is a unit of liquid.

When you measure moles, you are measuring in the 400 to 700 wavelength... Those are the relevant wavelengths for plants.

It's just another way of saying that if you want a true PAR measurement, you need to be using the proper wavelength.

 

[PhatNuggz]

It's actually moles...umole is a unit of liquid.

When you measure moles, you are measuring in the 400 to 700 wavelength... Those are the relevant wavelengths for plants.

It's just another way of saying that if you want a true PAR measurement, you need to be using the proper wavelength.

Actually it is umoles- micro is designated as 'u'

 

[PhatNuggz]

@ken dog
Here's a part why I ask
My bloom area was 2 square feet
I had a DIY cob useing 2-Cree cxa 3070's driven at 50 watts each (100 watt total)
I've bumped my grow area up to 4 square feet but still useing the same above fixture, so now it's 25 watts psf, with a bad foot print.
I want to bump up to at least 200 watt ( maybe more???) by adding. 2- cxa 3590,s.
Is there a way to measure umoles
@PhatNuggz ?
Thanks to both for your input
Peace

Ah, you need to separate them for better sft coverage, or in your case simply make another 2 x 3070 fixture. Look at the Amare Tech SE 250. It has 4 Cree 3070s set in a square (each surrounded with critical mono leds), thus each quadrant gets the same umoles

 

[ken dog]

Actually it is umoles- micro is designated as 'u'

This supports my claim...

.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(unit)

Fair use excerpt:

The concentration of a solution is commonly expressed by its molarity, defined as the number of moles of the dissolved substance per litre of solution.
..........................

But this is not a debate... We are all here to learn and pass on correct information.
So....

The citation of the link I provided, supports your claim...
http://www.egc.com/useful_info_lighting.php

 

[PhatNuggz]

The discussion is not about solution, the discussion is about light, which is defined as micromoles/meter square= umoles

 

[ken dog]

The discussion is not about solution, the discussion is about light, which is defined as micromoles/meter square= umoles

Yes. .. it would be nice if you provided a link next time... Save me the trouble of doing the research and finding the appropriate link myself. Once again, here is the link that I provided
Once again, here is the link that I provided...
.http://www.egc.com/useful_info_lighting.php

Fair use excerpt:

This is an objective measure since it directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis. However, lamp manufacturers typically rate their lamps in lumens, a measure of light in the spectrum visible to humans. Moreover, most lighting engineers measure lighting levels in lumens per square meter (lux) or per square foot (foot-candles). Since the spectral sensitivities of plants and humans are quite different, there is no direct method of converting the units without evaluating the full range of spectral characteristics for a given light source.

 

[MGRox]

In regards to the OP. You want about 800-1500 umols at the canopy level. Whatever wattage of whatever light you need to get that will be appropriate watts per square foot. I've narrowed down the "larf" intensity to occur in levels at or below 400 umols with 12 hr photoperiod.

With reference to the expressed unit of PAR (SI units).

Spoiler

First are we talking moles or mol.........Yes.
"The mole is one of the base units of the SI, and has the unit symbol mol."

"The mole is the unit of measurement in the International System of Units (SI) for amount of substance. It is defined as the amount of a chemical substance that contains as many elementary entities, e.g., atoms, molecules, ions, electrons, or photons, as there are atoms in 12 grams of carbon-12 (12C), the isotope of carbon with relative atomic mass 12 by definition. This number is expressed by the Avogadro constant, which has a value of 6.022140857(74)×10^23 mol-1."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(unit)

From another place that may be easier to read than above;

"The mole, abbreviated mol, is an SI unit which measures the number of particles in a specific substance. One mole is equal to 6.02214179 x 10^23" atoms, or other elementary units such as molecules."
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Core/Physical_Chemistry/Atomic_Theory/The_Mole_and_Avogadro's_Constant

Now, light does not have a mass but does have photons which have energy and can be quantified. The first application for measuring photon flux and applied to PAR was done by Einstein.

"An einstein is a unit defined as the energy in one mole (6.022×10^23) of photons.[1] Because energy is inversely proportional to wavelength, the unit is frequency dependent"

"In studies of photosynthesis the einstein is sometimes used with a different definition of one mole of photons.[2] As such, photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) was formerly often reported in microeinsteins per second per square meter (μE m−2 s−1). This usage is also not part of the International System of Units and when used this way it is redundant with the mole."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_(unit)

Now notice that (the energy in) 1 mole of photons is frequency dependent. This is because we are measuring a quantity of energy vs a specific quantifiable particle number. As such a mole here strictly relates to an energy value, even though that value is still "represented" as equaling 6.022 x 10^23 individual photons (1 mole of elementary units).

Since einsteins have been replaced, or more modernly cited in SI units; what is the correlation between uE and uMol?
"1uMol m-2s-1 = 1uE"


So then, how do we calculate the Mols (energy) for specific photons, of specific wavelengths?

"The energy in a mole of photons can be related to the wavelength of light by the following equation:"

"where E is the energy in a mole of photons, N is Avogadro's number (6.02 x 10^23 photons per mole), h is Planck's constant (1.58 x 10^-34 cal/s), c is the velocity of light (3 x 10^17 nm/s), and l is the wavelength of light (nm)"

"This equation can be used to determine the amount of energy absorbed when photosynthesis occurs with lights of different wavelength. We will plot energy (E) as a function of wavelength (l)."

http://www.tiem.utk.edu/~gross/bioed/webmodules/lightenergy.html

The Quantum Sensors used in PAR meters are measuring this energy (across the 400-700nm wavelengths) related to the energy contained in 1 mole of photons. This is generally expressed in Umols m^-2 s^-1.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Yes. .. it would be nice if you provided a link next time... Save me the trouble of doing the research and finding the appropriate link myself. Once again, here is the link that I provided
Once again, here is the link that I provided...
.http://www.egc.com/useful_info_lighting.php

Fair use excerpt:

This is an objective measure since it directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis. However, lamp manufacturers typically rate their lamps in lumens, a measure of light in the spectrum visible to humans. Moreover, most lighting engineers measure lighting levels in lumens per square meter (lux) or per square foot (foot-candles). Since the spectral sensitivities of plants and humans are quite different, there is no direct method of converting the units without evaluating the full range of spectral characteristics for a given light source.

What? Read the OPs title

 

[AvidLerner]

before LEDs I was a hps grower
The adage was :
More watts
More buds....
I understand 25 watts per square foot is good for led.
Is there anyone useing the more watts more buds with LEDs???
I.e. Over 25 watts psf
Thanks...00

50w/Sf is best for veg and bloom. you can always dial back or dim the fixture. 50w/SF will give you the PPFD in the 700's every time. the sweet spot. With COB leds it is not watts but lumens/watt. At 700ma you can drive more lumens/watt than at 1400ma. Plants veg great at 700ma with a MW HLG-185H-700B 4- cxb3590, 36v. peace

 

[Tejashidrow]

@AvidLerner
Thanks for the input.
Just what I needed to know
Is there a difference in between
MW HLG-185H-700B
Or
MW HLG-185H-700A ???
Just finding lots of the 700A's....
Thanks agian.

 

[AvidLerner]

@AvidLerner
Thanks for the input.
Just what I needed to know
Is there a difference in between
MW HLG-185H-700B
Or
MW HLG-185H-700A ???
Just finding lots of the 700A's....
Thanks agian.

A is an internal dimmer, and B is an external dimmer. B is better for long term. peace

 

[Tejashidrow]

@AvidLerner
Thank you for your help.
It will help me and hopefully others
THANK YOU errbody Else for your input.
Now I gots smartatude !!!
Peace and love
Peacenluv

 

[Tejashidrow]

With a hlg-185h
Can I run a odd number of cobs
Or
Do I have to run even number of cobs??
With this driver I just thought I could run my two 3070's and one 3590.
That would make the 3 cobs run at about 68 watts each well below their max wattage but oosing a bit of effecny, but giveing me the 200 watts I'm looking to get for my grow area

 

[Toaster79]

With a hlg-185h
Can I run a odd number of cobs
Or
Do I have to run even number of cobs??
With this driver I just thought I could run my two 3070's and one 3590.
That would make the 3 cobs run at about 68 watts each well below their max wattage but oosing a bit of effecny, but giveing me the 200 watts I'm looking to get for my grow area

You can run any number of LED/COBs as long as they are in voltage range of the driver.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Guys sorry I haven't been around. I've been working on getting the passive pin heat sinks and 50w per sq/ft is the mark and the sinks handle the cobs without any fans.

 

[REALSTYLES]

With a hlg-185h
Can I run a odd number of cobs
Or
Do I have to run even number of cobs??
With this driver I just thought I could run my two 3070's and one 3590.
That would make the 3 cobs run at about 68 watts each well below their max wattage but oosing a bit of effecny, but giveing me the 200 watts I'm looking to get for my grow area

It's not gonna be 68w each but 50w with the room to add the fourth later. The Meanwell drivers don't work that way and that question has been asked on different forums. Btw guys I'm doing organic soil now. I'll post pics soon on my thread stay tuned.