My clones ALWAYS flower as soon as I put them outside,...why?!?!?!

[foothilla]

Something that hasnt been asked yet in this convo, what was the photoperiod of the mothers your clones came from when you received them. you are sourcing them from somewhere. Ask the donor what the photoperiod was before you get em. And in closing since your the resident science expert, figure it out on your own then come back to dazzle all of us lesser folks who dont understand wassup. :)

Please see my previous post for an accurate answer to this question. Thanks!

Also, please don't get your feelings hurt, just because I want scientific explanation (as opposed to stoner speculation). There is nothing wrong with wanting to understand science.

 

[foothilla]

The photoperiod is causing to flower because you haven’t adjusted them properly, and they are confused. I never told you to match there photoperiod I told you that putting 18-6 plants out in 14.5-9.5 is going to flower them because that’s what photoperiods do!. Grow a auto if your having too much problems boo

LOL,....being that they are flowering immediately, I pretty much am unwillingly growing auto's (but without the crappy ruderalis added to the genetics).

Please, explain the science to me. Why doesn't a clone flower with it is cut drastically from 24 hours of light to 16 hours? But a clone cut from 18 hours to 14.5 hours is too drastic of a light reduction? Seems illogical. But, if that is what is happened,...what is the science behind it?

Why doesn't a clone flower when it is drastically cut from 24 hours of light back to 16 hours of light, even though those light reductions are even more drastic, and also done without "adjusting" them to the light reduction?

 

[Kingjoshh]

LOL,....being that they are flowering immediately, I pretty much am unwillingly growing auto's (but without the crappy ruderalis added to the genetics).

Please, explain the science to me. Why doesn't a clone flower with it is cut drastically from 24 hours of light to 16 hours? But a clone cut from 18 hours to 14.5 hours is too drastic of a light reduction? Seems illogical. But, if that is what is happened,...what is the science behind it?

Why doesn't a clone cut from 24 hours of light back to 16 not flower, when it's light is reduced without "adjustment"?

Read what I said already? I gave you the exact science on why? Then why would they flower with 12 /12 THATS your logic, grow autos they seem better for your attitude towards things

 

[Kingjoshh]

LOL,....being that they are flowering immediately, I pretty much am unwillingly growing auto's (but without the crappy ruderalis added to the genetics).

Please, explain the science to me. Why doesn't a clone flower with it is cut drastically from 24 hours of light to 16 hours? But a clone cut from 18 hours to 14.5 hours is too drastic of a light reduction? Seems illogical. But, if that is what is happened,...what is the science behind it?

Why doesn't a clone flower when it is drastically cut from 24 hours of light back to 16 hours of light, even though those light reductions are even more drastic, and also done without "adjusting" them to the light reduction?

Phytochrome far red actively keeps your plants from flowering. Once there is a low enough amount of Phytochrome far red , your plant will start to flower. This decrease can only come from long periods of darkness without any interruption. Let me make the science simple for you. 24 hour lights not enough darkness, 20-4 is not enough, 18-6 is not enough to make it flower,
You said your were 18-6. If you put a plant outside that has been on a 18-6 cycle and lower it where the plant feels there’s enough phytochrome far red is gone it will flower. And you are telling me that this is basically all wrong, the plants told you what’s up already you don’t wanna listen ohwell good luck

 

[foothilla]

Read what I said already? I gave you the exact science on why? Then why would they flower with 12 /12 THATS your logic, grow autos they seem better for your attitude towards things

They flower under 12/12 because 12 hours of darkness IS enough to trigger flowering. However, the longest day of the year should not provide enough darkness for the same plant to flower.

There is a specific amount of darkness needed, as you know. 12 hours meets that requirement. 14.5 hours of darkness should not meet that requirement. Hence the confusion.

 

[Kingjoshh]

They flower under 12/12 because 12 hours of darkness IS enough to trigger flowering. However, the longest day of the year should not provide enough darkness for the same plant to flower.

There is a specific amount of darkness needed, as you know. 12 hours meets that requirement. 14.5 hours of darkness should not meet that requirement. Hence the confusion.

You don’t decide what is and is not enough light for the plant to flower. The plant does. And there is overwhelming data and people showing that plants can flower on less then 12 hours of darkness

 

[foothilla]

Phytochrome far red actively keeps your plants from flowering. Once there is a low enough amount of Phytochrome far red , your plant will start to flower. This decrease can only come from long periods of darkness without any interruption. Let me make the science simple for you. 24 hour lights not enough darkness, 20-4 is not enough, 18-6 is not enough to make it flower,
You said your were 18-6. If you put a plant outside that has been on a 18-6 cycle and lower it where the plant feels there’s enough phytochrome far red is gone it will flower. And you are telling me that this is basically all wrong, the plants told you what’s up already you don’t wanna listen ohwell good luck

You seem to be confused about what exactly I am questioning about your comments.

The phytochrome levels are clearly triggering flower with only 9.5 hours of darkness (I totally agree with that). But, how is that going to change just because I had the plants under 16 hours of veg light, as opposed to 18 hours of veg light? In other words, 9.5 hours of darkness is clearly causing enough of a flower trigger,.....how would changing my veg light from 18 hours down to 16 hours alter the plants eventual phytochrome reaction to 9.5 hours of darkness?

....that's what doesn't make sense to me. A plant should need a specific amount of darkness to flower. I have never read anywhere that your vegetative light cycle can alter that required amount of darkness needed for flowering.

So, is that what you are claiming the science to be? That the amount of darkness a specific strain needs to flower is COMPLETELY VARIABLE, based on the amount of veg light that you gave it? Because, that is what you are suggesting.

In a nutshell, that is what I am questioning. You are suggesting that the amount of darkness a specific strain needs to flower is variable, and dictated by the amount of light it got during vegetation.

 

[Madbud]

Foothilla, if you are so totally convinced its not light related perhaps its a secondary factor thats triggering your plant to thinking its life is nearing its end. What are your night temps at 2000ft?

 

[Kingjoshh]

You seem to be confused about what exactly I am questioning about your comments.

The phytochrome levels are clearly triggering flower with only 9.5 hours of darkness (I totally agree with that). But, how is that going to change just because I had the plants under 16 hours of veg light, as opposed to 18 hours of veg light? In other words, 9.5 hours of darkness is clearly causing enough of a flower trigger,.....how would changing my veg light from 18 hours down to 16 hours alter the plants eventual phytochrome reaction to 9.5 hours of darkness?

....that's what doesn't make sense to me. A plant should need a specific amount of darkness to flower. I have never read anywhere that your vegetative light cycle can alter that required amount of darkness needed for flowering.

So, is that what you are claiming the science to be? That the amount of darkness a specific strain needs to flower is COMPLETELY VARIABLE, based on the amount of veg light that you gave it? Because, that is what you are suggesting.

In a nutshell, that is what I am questioning. You are suggesting that the amount of darkness a specific strain needs to flower is variable, and dictated by the amount of light it got during vegetation.

Let me make this very simple for you, changing from 18/6 to 14.5/9.5 caused them to flower. If you started with a 14/10 cycle then placed them outside there is no change to the cycle, meaning there is no loss of phytochrome. If your plant is use to 6 hours of darkness and you give it 9.5(close to 12). It will flower. If your plants are use to 10 hours of darkness and you put them outside with 9.5 they won’t flower because it’s already use to 10 and there’s no changes. You seem to think this applies when changing from 24 to 18/6 and that would cause flowering. No because 6 is not close enough to 12 like 9.5 is

 

[Kingjoshh]

Foothilla, if you are so totally convinced its not light related perhaps its a secondary factor thats triggering your plant to thinking its life is nearing its end. What are your night temps at 2000ft?

I have him the exact science behind it so

 

[foothilla]

Foothilla, if you are so totally convinced its not light related perhaps its a secondary factor thats triggering your plant to thinking its life is nearing its end. What are your night temps at 2000ft?

That is something very unique to the mountains of Los Angeles. Daytime temps are crazy hot (typically high 90's and up),......but the nights can get very cool (sometimes in the 50's). So, my daytime/nighttime temperature swings are pretty drastic for So Cal outdoors. Could this be what's screwing me???

 

[foothilla]

Let me make this very simple for you, changing from 18/6 to 14.5/9.5 caused them to flower. If you started with a 14/10 cycle then placed them outside there is no change to the cycle, meaning there is no loss of phytochrome. If your plant is use to 6 hours of darkness and you give it 9.5(close to 12). It will flower. If your plants are use to 10 hours of darkness and you put them outside with 9.5 they won’t flower because it’s already use to 10 and there’s no changes. You seem to think this applies when changing from 24 to 18/6 and that would cause flowering. No because 6 is not close enough to 12 like 9.5 is

All you've done is "make it simple". I would prefer you complicate it, and make it scientific.

You are saying that you can alter a plants required flowering darkness, based on the amount of vegetative light you give it?

You do realize that is what you are saying,....right?

 

[Kingjoshh]

All you've done is "make it simple". I would prefer you complicate it, and make it scientific.

You are saying that you can alter a plants required flowering darkness, based on the amount of vegetative light you give it?

You do realize that is what you are saying,....right?

You do realize that what photoperiod strains are right? You change light cycles to make them flower? If my plant has grown it’s whole life on 18/6 light, then you put it outside and give it almost 12 hours(9.5)of darkness it will flower. GROW autos if you can’t grasp this. I never said you can change the requirements of genetics, I’ve already told you there is overwhelming data to prove they can flower on less then 12 hours of darkness. You are being really ignorant

 

[foothilla]

You do realize that what photoperiod strains are right? You change light cycles to make them flower? If my plant has grown it’s whole life on 18/6 light, then you put it outside and give it almost 12 hours(9.5)of darkness it will flower. GROW autos if you can’t grasp this. I never said you can change the requirements of genetics, I’ve already told you there is overwhelming data to prove they can flower on less then 12 hours of darkness. You are being really ignorant

No, man. Think about what you are saying:

You are saying that if I give a plant a certain amount of vegetative light, that it may cause the plant to flower with less darkness than if I gave that same plant less vegetative light.

Thereby, you are saying that you can directly alter a plant's required flowering darkness by the amount of vegetative light that you give it.

Seriously, man,....cite me one reputable source that says the darkness a plant requires for flowering is variable, based upon the amount of vegetative light it is given. If this is a known scientific fact that I am not privy to, then please link me one reputable source that verifies this phenomenon. If this is the science behind flowering, then by all means I want to learn it. But, I am pretty well read, and I have never read such a claim anywhere. So, if this is fact, please link me a source. Educate me.

 

[foothilla]

You do realize that what photoperiod strains are right? You change light cycles to make them flower? If my plant has grown it’s whole life on 18/6 light, then you put it outside and give it almost 12 hours(9.5)of darkness it will flower. GROW autos if you can’t grasp this. I never said you can change the requirements of genetics, I’ve already told you there is overwhelming data to prove they can flower on less then 12 hours of darkness. You are being really ignorant

And to be fair,...I don't think you understand what photoperiod strains are.

A photoperiod strain needs a certain amount of darkness to flower. The amount of darkness it needs is not variable, it's genetically predetermined.

You seem to think the amount of darkness needed to flower is variable,...relative to the amount of vegetative light it received.

For example, my plants began to flower with only 9.5 hours of darkness. You are saying that wouldn't have happened, had I reduced my light hours during vegetation. Thereby, you are saying that the darkness needed to flower a plant is variable,...dependent on it's vegetive light hours.

This is what I question. I have never read a respected, published grow guru claim that you can alter a plants genetically predisposed darkness requirements. If this claim exists, please link me to some respected sources, and I will stand corrected.

 

[Madbud]

That is something very unique to the mountains of Los Angeles. Daytime temps are crazy hot (typically high 90's and up),......but the nights can get very cool (sometimes in the 50's). So, my daytime/nighttime temperature swings are pretty drastic for So Cal outdoors. Could this be what's screwing me???

There doesn’t appear to be any scientific support of low temps triggering flower, just me stoner conjecture. Science says a fifteen minute period of light during the night should prevent flowering, so thats what i would do, an led floodlight before you go to bed. Good luck.

 

[Kingjoshh]

And to be fair,...I don't think you understand what photoperiod strains are.

A photoperiod strain needs a certain amount of darkness to flower. The amount of darkness it needs is not variable, it's genetically predetermined.

You seem to think the amount of darkness needed to flower is variable,...relative to the amount of vegetative light it received.

For example, my plants began to flower with only 9.5 hours of darkness. You are saying that wouldn't have happened, had I reduced my light hours during vegetation. Thereby, you are saying that the darkness needed to flower a plant is variable,...dependent on it's vegetive light hours.

This is what I question. I have never read a respected, published grow guru claim that you can alter a plants genetically predisposed darkness requirements. If this claim exists, please link me to some respected sources, and I will stand corrected.

You don’t understand what I’m sayin. A long night of full darkness is what causes non-autoflowering plants to flower. Goodluck im not participating anymore

 

[foothilla]

There doesn’t appear to be any scientific support of low temps triggering flower, just me stoner conjecture. Science says a fifteen minute period of light during the night should prevent flowering, so thats what i would do, an led floodlight before you go to bed. Good luck.

Yea,...I wish that was a possibility. But, there is no way for me to illuminate them at night. Regardless, thank you for the help.

 

[foothilla]

You don’t understand what I’m sayin. A long night of full darkness is what causes non-autoflowering plants to flower. Goodluck im not participating anymore

It's possible I don't understand what you are saying. I certainly feel like you don't understand what I am saying. Let me try to rephrase, as this is a bit complicated to explain.

You have said that the drastic swing of reducing my light from 18 hours to 14.5 hours caused my plants to flower, even though they are getting only 9.5 hours of darkness. Your suggestion was that I cut the vegetative light hours back to something like 15 or 16 hours, and then when I move my plants outside they will no longer be triggered to flower by only 9.5 hours of darkness.

So,...essentially, you are saying that the amount of darkness needed to flower a plant changes,....depending on the amount of vegetative light that the plant received.

This is the heart of my questioning to you, and anyone else that said a reduction in veg light hours will solve this. For that to be a resolution, the darkness needed to trigger flowering would have to be variable and adjustable. Whereas, I have always read that the amount of darkness needed to flower is genetically predetermined, and not variable.

 

[Madbud]

Yea,...I wish that was a possibility. But, there is no way for me to illuminate them at night. Regardless, thank you for the help.

While i firmly believe indoor 14/10 is your best choice, i have heard solar path lights are bright enough to prevent flowering.