My clones ALWAYS flower as soon as I put them outside,...why?!?!?!

[foothilla]

While i firmly believe indoor 14/10 is your best choice, i have heard solar path lights are bright enough to prevent flowering.

This year I had 6 completely different plants (6 different plants, 6 different strains) flower outside under a natural cycle of 14.5/9.5 sun/dark. So, unless there are other factors at play (i.e. temperatures, moisture imbalance, etc.), it would stand to reason that 14/10 indoors would have given me the same results. Right?

I didn't consider solar lights,....good suggestion. My only concern would be that the 6 plants sit on the top of a little mountain. Illuminating them at night could likely attract the attention of thieves. There is no other light where these sit. Lighting them up will make them really obvious to anyone in the area.

And honestly, while lighting them up could definitely resolve the issue,....I want to find the cause of the issue, and understand what is happening, and why it is happening (biologically speaking).

 

[PlumberSoCal]

It's possible I don't understand what you are saying. I certainly feel like you don't understand what I am saying. Let me try to rephrase, as this is a bit complicated to explain.

You have said that the drastic swing of reducing my light from 18 hours to 14.5 hours caused my plants to flower, even though they are getting only 9.5 hours of darkness. Your suggestion was that I cut the vegetative light hours back to something like 15 or 16 hours, and then when I move my plants outside they will no longer be triggered to flower by only 9.5 hours of darkness.

So,...essentially, you are saying that the amount of darkness needed to flower a plant changes,....depending on the amount of vegetative light that the plant received.

This is the heart of my questioning to you, and anyone else that said a reduction in veg light hours will solve this. For that to be a resolution, the darkness needed to trigger flowering would have to be variable and adjustable. Whereas, I have always read that the amount of darkness needed to flower is genetically predetermined, and not variable.

Well hell, I've read a lot too and yet in real life shit happens that doesn't conform to what I've read. I'm an outdoor grower, grew indoors 40 years ago so I'm not up on what can or may happen under lights but if you give a plant 16+ hours of light inside and then put them in the sun with less light that will trigger flowering. I learned this year that starting outside in March that by May plants began to flower.

Case in point

Days were getting longer but not enough to keep the plants in veg. Male sprouted balls in April and the females in May. 2 of my 3 females reverted back but not this one. I did put her inside for several weeks at night and brought her out at 9am to insure she continued to flower when she was about 40 days in.

So here it is, mid July and I'm a few days from a small harvest in San Diego, a hundred miles South of you.

We learn by doing. What you're doing isn't working the way you want so instead of arguing you need to change what you're doing to get different results.

Weed is photo sensitive. When you cut the hours of light most plants will begin to flower. Today we get about 14 hrs of light and if you're vegging indoors under 16-18 hrs moving to 14 could make them begin to flower. Try running your lights to mimic daylight hours and you shouldn't have this issue in the future.

Nothing wrong with buds in July.

 

[foothilla]

Well hell, I've read a lot too and yet in real life shit happens that doesn't conform to what I've read. I'm an outdoor grower, grew indoors 40 years ago so I'm not up on what can or may happen under lights but if you give a plant 16+ hours of light inside and then put them in the sun with less light that will trigger flowering. I learned this year that starting outside in March that by May plants began to flower.

Days were getting longer but not enough to keep the plants in veg. Male sprouted balls in April and the females in May. 2 of my 3 females reverted back but not this one. I did put her inside for several weeks at night and brought her out at 9am to insure she continued to flower when she was about 40 days in.

So here it is, mid July and I'm a few days from a small harvest in San Diego, a hundred miles South of you.

We learn by doing. What you're doing isn't working the way you want so instead of arguing you need to change what you're doing to get different results.

Weed is photo sensitive. When you cut the hours of light most plants will begin to flower. Today we get about 14 hrs of light and if you're vegging indoors under 16-18 hrs moving to 14 could make them begin to flower. Try running your lights to mimic daylight hours and you shouldn't have this issue in the future.

Nothing wrong with buds in July.

It's sad that that when you don't agree with someone's very unscientific opinion, others see it as "arguing". I simply do not think that the one idea about what is happening here is logical, or based on any actual science. As such I would simply like other opinions,....possibly from those that have experienced the same thing that I have experienced, in my climate, and resolved it. The fact that I am not willing to stop searching for answers just because I was given one very unscientific option to try, that does not mean that I am "arguing".

I repeatedly heard the one opinion about the veg light cycle. Unless some biological reasoning can be applied to that theory, I'd like to hear other thoughts from other growers. I will still try altering the indoor cycle next season, as suggested. But, I have no confidence that this will resolve my problem. So, now I would now like to move on to some other possibilities. It's not arguing, I just don't have confidence in that one idea. Frankly, after researching, that idea seems to have very little biological fact to support it.

As far as your other comments, I would ask you to reconsider one thing you've said. You said:

if you give a plant 16+ hours of light inside and then put them in the sun with less light that will trigger flowering.

Why would this apply to a plant moved under the sun, but it wouldn't apply to artificial lighting? I can assure you that your above claim is totally inaccurate if applied to artificially controlled light. Indoors you can go from 24 hours down to 16 hours of light,.....18 hours of light down to 15 hours of light,...20 hours of light down to 16 hours of light,.....so on and so on,.......all without issue. As long as you don't hit that genetically predetermined darkness period indoors (generally 10 to 12 hours of darkness), the plant won't flower without there being other abnormal circumstances (generally some kind of extreme plant stress).

But, you are claiming this can't be done when moving an indoor plant outside? Somehow the photoperiod principles totally change when you mix artificial light with natural sunlight?!?!?!

You seem like an intelligent guy,...so, surely you can understand why this might not make sense, and why I would want to explore this with more biological reasoning.

No offense,....but I've heard that one very unscientific opinion repeatedly. Now I would like to explore other ideas,.....ideally from people that have first hand experience with this exact problem. It's not that I am arguing. I just think there is more to it than that.

 

[916Fisherman]

With all due respect, it isn't the drastic cutting of light hours that causes flower. If that were true, cutting from 24 hours back to 18 hours would trigger flower (which it doesn't). It's the total amount of darkness that determines flower. You either have enough darkness, or you don't.

Being that this year my clones were put out on June 18th, they were put outside only 3 days away from the longest day of the year. This just doesn't make sense. The clones just shouldn't have had enough uninterrupted dark hours to flower in mid-June?!?!?

I’m no expert but I’ve seen plants start to flower going from 24-18 hours. But I’m just getting started again after a 7 year break lol

 

[foothilla]

I’m no expert but I’ve seen plants start to flower going from 24-18 hours. But I’m just getting started again after a 7 year break lol

Only an autoflower, or a severely stressed plant, will flower under 18-24 hours of light.

 

[PlumberSoCal]

It's sad that that when you don't agree with someone's very unscientific opinion, others see it as "arguing". I simply do not think that the one idea about what is happening here is logical, or based on any actual science. As such I would simply like other opinions,....possibly from those that have experienced the same thing that I have experienced, in my climate, and resolved it. The fact that I am not willing to stop searching for answers just because I was given one very unscientific option to try, that does not mean that I am "arguing".

I repeatedly heard the one opinion about the veg light cycle. Unless some biological reasoning can be applied to that theory, I'd like to hear other thoughts from other growers. I will still try altering the indoor cycle next season, as suggested. But, I have no confidence that this will resolve my problem. So, now I would now like to move on to some other possibilities. It's not arguing, I just don't have confidence in that one idea. Frankly, after researching, that idea seems to have very little biological fact to support it.

As far as your other comments, I would ask you to reconsider one thing you've said. You said:



Why would this apply to a plant moved under the sun, but it wouldn't apply to artificial lighting? I can assure you that your above claim is totally inaccurate if applied to artificially controlled light. Indoors you can go from 24 hours down to 16 hours of light,.....18 hours of light down to 15 hours of light,...20 hours of light down to 16 hours of light,.....so on and so on,.......all without issue. As long as you don't hit that genetically predetermined darkness period indoors (generally 10 to 12 hours of darkness), the plant won't flower without there being other abnormal circumstances (generally some kind of extreme plant stress).

But, you are claiming this can't be done when moving an indoor plant outside? Somehow the photoperiod principles totally change when you mix artificial light with natural sunlight?!?!?!

You seem like an intelligent guy,...so, surely you can understand why this might not make sense, and why I would want to explore this with more biological reasoning.

No offense,....but I've heard that one very unscientific opinion repeatedly. Now I would like to explore other ideas,.....ideally from people that have first hand experience with this exact problem. It's not that I am arguing. I just think there is more to it than that.

Reality is what you are doing, no matter how many well educated scientists say different, is not giving you the results that you're looking for, so instead of repeating, "this shouldn't happen" change what you are doing OR enjoy your early harvest. Either way it's up to you.

 

[foothilla]

Reality is what you are doing, no matter how many well educated scientists say different, is not giving you the results that you're looking for, so instead of repeating, "this shouldn't happen" change what you are doing OR enjoy your early harvest. Either way it's up to you.

If you look at my opening post you will see that I have been changing what I have been doing every season (in terms of light cycle). I will continue to change what I am doing until I figure out what works, and why it is working. I'm simply looking for some solutions that might be a little deeper than "just cut 2 or 3 more hours out of your veg light cycle". That solution suggests that darkness flower triggers are variable. I believe a plants flowering requirements to be genetically predetermined.

Unfortunately, being that I always stick within state law, and only grow 6 plants at a time,......it's hard to enjoy an early harvest, because it crushes my yields. If I ignored state law and just grew 200 tiny plants, this wouldn't be an issue. But, being that I'm compelled to stick within the law's limits, this is totally ruining my summer yield.

 

[Kingjoshh]

Reality is what you are doing, no matter how many well educated scientists say different, is not giving you the results that you're looking for, so instead of repeating, "this shouldn't happen" change what you are doing OR enjoy your early harvest. Either way it's up to you.

 

[simcoesod]

Only an autoflower, or a severely stressed plant, will flower under 18-24 hours of light.

that is not true,there are many light sensitive strains that have no ruderalis genes that flower anywhere from 16-20 hours of light.for example gorilla gold and mighty mite

 

[simcoesod]

If you look at my opening post you will see that I have been changing what I have been doing every season (in terms of light cycle). I will continue to change what I am doing until I figure out what works, and why it is working. I'm simply looking for some solutions that might be a little deeper than "just cut 2 or 3 more hours out of your veg light cycle". That solution suggests that darkness flower triggers are variable. I believe a plants flowering requirements to be genetically predetermined.

Unfortunately, being that I always stick within state law, and only grow 6 plants at a time,......it's hard to enjoy an early harvest, because it crushes my yields. If I ignored state law and just grew 200 tiny plants, this wouldn't be an issue. But, being that I'm compelled to stick within the law's limits, this is totally ruining my summer yield.

your situation makes no sense either than bad luck.i have grown hundreds of photo period strains and only a small percentage(1-3%)have flowered when put outside after june 1st coming from 18/6 indoors

 

[Wolfe]

Are others peoples cannabis plants in your area flowering at this time?
Sometimes nature triggers plants to flower earlier depending upon the year. Could have to do with global positioning,
The moon possibly. I notice some times in Colorado the weather affects how early things flower. Not sure if you’ve checked with any other growers around you. But I’ve had stuff flower earlier than other times outdoors. As far as clones or seeds having a difference. I run my veg cycle on 24 hours. I’ve put both clones and seeds straight outside and they do the same thing for me. But I do notice some years nature produces flowers earlier than other years. We have a good fruit producing year I can tell. All my berries on my trees were full early. The crab apple trees are already covered and they had blooming flowers. I’ve seen years here with no fruit and no flowers on those crab apple trees. Also could be strain sensitive.

 

[simcoesod]

when you put outside are you planting or just putting out in the pots you had them in indoors?could possibly be rootbound and the change from artificial light to natural light triggers flowering

 

[foothilla]

that is not true,there are many light sensitive strains that have no ruderalis genes that flower anywhere from 16-20 hours of light.for example gorilla gold and mighty mite

Not to enter into a raging semantics debate,....but if it flowers automatically under 16-20 hours of light, it would be considered an "autoflower" by most growers that I know.

 

[foothilla]

your situation makes no sense either than bad luck.i have grown hundreds of photo period strains and only a small percentage(1-3%)have flowered when put outside after june 1st coming from 18/6 indoors

Are you in Southern California by any chance?

 

[foothilla]

Are others peoples cannabis plants in your area flowering at this time?
Sometimes nature triggers plants to flower earlier depending upon the year. Could have to do with global positioning,
The moon possibly. I notice some times in Colorado the weather affects how early things flower. Not sure if you’ve checked with any other growers around you. But I’ve had stuff flower earlier than other times outdoors. As far as clones or seeds having a difference. I run my veg cycle on 24 hours. I’ve put both clones and seeds straight outside and they do the same thing for me. But I do notice some years nature produces flowers earlier than other years. We have a good fruit producing year I can tell. All my berries on my trees were full early. The crab apple trees are already covered and they had blooming flowers. I’ve seen years here with no fruit and no flowers on those crab apple trees. Also could be strain sensitive.

Nope,....it's still veg time in So Cal. When I grew from seed in the same location I won't typically see signs of flowering until early/mid August here.

 

[foothilla]

when you put outside are you planting or just putting out in the pots you had them in indoors?could possibly be rootbound and the change from artificial light to natural light triggers flowering

When they went outside they were knee high, in 3 gallon smart pots. As soon as they adjusted to the intensity of natural sunlight I transplanted them to 15 gallon smart pots.

 

[simcoesod]

If you look at my opening post you will see that I have been changing what I have been doing every season (in terms of light cycle). I will continue to change what I am doing until I figure out what works, and why it is working. I'm simply looking for some solutions that might be a little deeper than "just cut 2 or 3 more hours out of your veg light cycle". That solution suggests that darkness flower triggers are variable. I believe a plants flowering requirements to be genetically predetermined.

Unfortunately, being that I always stick within state law, and only grow 6 plants at a time,......it's hard to enjoy an early harvest, because it crushes my yields. If I ignored state law and just grew 200 tiny plants, this wouldn't be an issue. But, being that I'm compelled to stick within the law's limits, this is totally ruining my summer yield.

well you have to be doing something wrong if everyone elses plants dont flower when put outside in june.....in april or may there is a big chance of flowering when put out,but not june....its the only logical answer if everyone elses plants dont flower immediately

Not to enter into a raging semantics debate,....but if it flowers automatically under 16-20 hours of light, it would be considered an "autoflower" by most growers that I know.

well its not...
argument over

 

[simcoesod]

Are you in Southern California by any chance?

nope,southern ontario,44n

 

[foothilla]

nope,southern ontario,44n

Pretty different from what I'm growing in. I'm much closer to the equator, different light cycle, high altitude, super hot days, very cool nights, ultra low humidity, super intense sun, huge temp swings. I'm dealing with elements that you aren't used to in Ontario. My problems could be stress related, and have absolutely nothing to do with light cycle.

This is why I would love some feedback from outdoor So Cal growers, who grow from clone. Particularly those in the So Cal mountain elevations, which have pretty unique micro-climates.

 

[simcoesod]

well good luck with your problem