My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

Junk · Oct 8, 2015

gardnguyahoy said:
Unfortunately, I lost my entire chem dogg to bud rot.

What was the temp/rh... do you rememeber?

I had never experienced bud rot, so when people talk about it, it was somewhat foreign to me. I have nothing to add to the discussion.

So I took a test plant & forced it to the point of bud rot. It was a test plant for a lot of things actually (restrictor plates) so anyway, the buds were about 1.5" in diameter. I didn't get the rot until 80 degrees, 85 rh. Once I saw it, I removed it from the humidity, (went to 50%, 75 degrees) but the rot still spread.

Now I have a pretty good idea of how bad bud rot is & at what point it occurs.

Junk · Oct 8, 2015

Seamaiden said:
The cure doesn't start until the bud is properly dried, period. ;) I like my drying to take about two weeks, and I like my cure to be one month minimum, two are better and longer is better still. That's for me though.

I would agree with all that. But I seem to be alone in one respect. I find putting the buds in 55/50 for two weeks is too much. After about 10 days mine are crispy, sometimes less. 14 days & I could trim them with my fingers.

The paper bag thing. @clockworx does it & I think the guy is a damn genius. Evidently Seamaiden does it & I hold her opinions & experience in the highest esteem. So I really should start to do it. But I don't understand what the bag is doing, that say, a large mason jar, is not. I've tried it both ways & not noticed a difference. So what does the bag do?

It seems logical to me to move buds as little as possible. The less damage to the trichomes the better. Plus all my stuff is very sticky, so in the paper bag, they just get stuck to each other & then I have to go in & separate them. I feel like I'm damaging all those trichomes I worked so hard to get.

The paragraph above is all a "feeling." I don't know if it damages anything. So next on the list of lab equipment is a microscope. Not a hand held, a real one.

I'm going to check to see if anything is different with fan leaves on for dry instead of taking them off (I usually take them off) Also, the paper bag thing. Because if it's just in my head, I need to know.

Anyone know what the bag is doing better than a jar at that point in the process?

Seamaiden · Oct 8, 2015

Lurkin4yrs said:
@Seamaiden have you tried Boveda humidipacks? I've been thinking about tring them out.

Have not tried them yet. If I were to give them a go, I'd have to figure out some sort of containment. I'd rather have a walk-in humidor, ya know?

Junk said:
I would agree with all that. But I seem to be alone in one respect. I find putting the buds in 55/50 for two weeks is too much. After about 10 days mine are crispy, sometimes less. 14 days & I could trim them with my fingers.

That could be due to the size and thickness of the material we're starting with, as well as whether or not you're trimming off the fan leaves prior to drying. I do the plants whole and if I let the RH go too high during that time I will definitely get mold, so it's gotta be no higher than 55% for my situation.

Junk said:
But I don't understand what the bag is doing, that say, a large mason jar, is not. I've tried it both ways & not noticed a difference. So what does the bag do?

It's permeable, whereas the jars are not. It regulates movement of moisture in and out of the plant material rather than trapping the moisture, which requires the burping (do you have any idea how long it's been since I've done jars?)

Junk said:
I'm going to check to see if anything is different with fan leaves on for dry instead of taking them off (I usually take them off)

Aha! :) Stop taking off the fan leaves and see how it goes. Also, once the buds are dry, curing is best, in my opinion, in the 60%-65% range (depending on the strain!). I find that at that range trichomes generally do not break off and I think the lack of shake in my bags/bins can speak to that. Just my opinion, though.

Junk · Oct 8, 2015

Seamaiden said:
Have not tried them yet. If I were to give them a go, I'd have to figure out some sort of containment. I'd rather have a walk-in humidor, ya know?

I've seen the ones some people on here have...oh to have one of those

Seamaiden said:
That could be due to the size and thickness of the material we're starting with, as well as whether or not you're trimming off the fan leaves prior to drying. I do the plants whole and if I let the RH go too high during that time I will definitely get mold, so it's gotta be no higher than 55% for my situation.

Depending on the strain my dried tops are 5-7 grams. Admittedly, I don't grow tops like @alaskind But even the biggest buds I've had, in 55 degrees, 50% rh, 7-10 days is plenty. I tried 14 days with a couple stalks, & it was just too much. The fan leaves probably have a lot to do with that. That's one thing I haven't tried. I find taking off the fan leaves before hanging to make the trimming (which I detest) go faster.

Seamaiden said:
It's permeable, whereas the jars are not. It regulates movement of moisture in and out of the plant material rather than trapping the moisture, which requires the burping (do you have any idea how long it's been since I've done jars?)

Thank you

Seamaiden said:
Aha! :) Stop taking off the fan leaves and see how it goes. Also, once the buds are dry, curing is best, in my opinion, in the 60%-65% range (depending on the strain!).

So you are saying you go to the bags, & put the bags in a 60-65% room?

Seamaiden said:
I find that at that range trichomes generally do not break off and I think the lack of shake in my bags/bins can speak to that. Just my opinion, though.

Hmmm, I didn't think of using that observation to judge damage. I think my product is so sticky that I wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

I WILL do the microscope thing once the current run is done & post pics here. Whether or not there is any damage at all to the trichomes, or how negligible it is, I just want to know.

Seamaiden · Oct 8, 2015

Junk said:
So you are saying you go to the bags, & put the bags in a 60-65% room?

No, I use my basement for drying and curing, I leave the plants (or branches) whole. I used to heat the basement to get the RH down, now I have a dehuey that helps me keep it much closer to what I want. Then once everything has at LEAST a one month cure on it, if I need to I'll start bucking it down into smaller branches, those will go into plastic bins that don't seal up, they allow a small amount of air and moisture movement. THEN, when it gets time to trim, I'll break those down, trim, and then the bud will go into paper bags, which are kept in the plastic bins again.

Because I have the luxury of a whole basement space under the house I don't actually need to contain the product until my next harvest. Otherwise, it stays in the bags until it's vacuum sealed.

I really hope that makes sense. Reading it I'm not so sure it does.

Junk · Oct 8, 2015

Seamaiden said:
No, I use my basement for drying and curing, I leave the plants (or branches) whole. I used to heat the basement to get the RH down, now I have a dehuey that helps me keep it much closer to what I want. Then once everything has at LEAST a one month cure on it, if I need to I'll start bucking it down into smaller branches, those will go into plastic bins that don't seal up, they allow a small amount of air and moisture movement. THEN, when it gets time to trim, I'll break those down, trim, and then the bud will go into paper bags, which are kept in the plastic bins again.

Because I have the luxury of a whole basement space under the house I don't actually need to contain the product until my next harvest. Otherwise, it stays in the bags until it's vacuum sealed.

I really hope that makes sense. Reading it I'm not so sure it does.

I had to read it a few times, but I got it.:)

gardnguyahoy · Oct 8, 2015

Junk said:
I've seen the ones some people on here have...oh to have one of those

Depending on the strain my dried tops are 5-7 grams. Admittedly, I don't grow tops like @alaskind But even the biggest buds I've had, in 55 degrees, 50% rh, 7-10 days is plenty. I tried 14 days with a couple stalks, & it was just too much. The fan leaves probably have a lot to do with that. That's one thing I haven't tried. I find taking off the fan leaves before hanging to make the trimming (which I detest) go faster.

Thank you

So you are saying you go to the bags, & put the bags in a 60-65% room?

Hmmm, I didn't think of using that observation to judge damage. I think my product is so sticky that I wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

I WILL do the microscope thing once the current run is done & post pics here. Whether or not there is any damage at all to the trichomes, or how negligible it is, I just want to know.

I guarantee the area you live im changes things. Does it get cold there? I asked @Power OG about the long dry time and he mentioned he only has to go that many days if the temperature is relatively cold. I tagged him hopefully hell chime in

Also you have to keep in mind sea does large quantities of buds , which. I feel, changes the curing process dramatically. Shr doesnt cure in jars and i think its because the sheer volume she deals with necessitates a bigger method. Like an entire basement lol.

What ive noticed is that things change between styles of grow, jars is more of a personal crop thing so ive read and learned. Had she put all her bud in jars to cure which needed to be burped daily i dont think shed have time to do anything else. Shed be too busy unscrewing and retopping jars all day.

Junk · Oct 8, 2015

What else does she have to do all day?

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 8, 2015

She has Seamaiden stuff to do.

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 8, 2015

I'ma try to paper bag thing, only thing in worried about is smell.

gardnguyahoy · Oct 8, 2015

Lurkin4yrs said:
I'ma try to paper bag thing, only thing in worried about is smell.

Thats why i havent fucked with it.

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 8, 2015

@Seamaiden are you layering it in the bag?

A quick how to or link

3N1GM4 · Oct 9, 2015

This is what I went by and it worked well after they hung from strings in a giant cardboard box for about 10 days. When the smaller stems start to snap is when I put them in jars. A small hygrometer from amazon is about $12 and well worth it for beginners.

Seamaiden · Oct 9, 2015

That looks pretty good to me, @3N1GM4 good find.

Lurkin4yrs said:
@Seamaiden are you layering it in the bag?

A quick how to or link

Always after drying, just very carefully placing the buds in the bag. the bag stays upright and I like to fit another one over it, that way I can gently flip them every week or so, and I like to do that to make sure that nothing gets squished for too long.

In order to keep things clean, those thing go into the plastic bins, I prefer about 30 gallons otherwise it's getting a bit large for me to physically handle. I did 100gals one year, very difficult to move and such. They may not be too big for other people, though.

miko · Nov 6, 2015

I hang whole until fan leaves are crispy. If I find its still a bit moist, I chop from the stems and put in paper bags.
Sometimes some plants are ready, while others need some more time, so that factors into which I jar and which I bag. :)

newbie1 · Jul 13, 2016

Seamaiden said:
That's because you removed all the solar panels. I've never understood the logic behind defoliation (the removal of leaves) in response to trying to get bigger and better buds. Let me explain in a manner I hope will make a lot more sense.

A plant is geared to do two huge things--grow and reproduce. They grow by converting sunlight into sugars, which are exchanged with microbes, back and forth. The conversion of sunlight into sugars occurs mostly in the plant's solar panels, which evolved specifically to capture sunlight. While the conversion of sunlight into sugars can occur in the plant's reproductive organs, they are not normally the primary source or driver of these conversions, nor are they really configured in such a manner so as to allow for best collection and capture of sunlight. This is what leaves are for.

So if you remove the leaves, you're removing the plant's solar collectors, which means you're removing its ability to convert that light into sugars, which is how the plant grows and gives us flowers.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the plant's potential to convert sugars, which is limited by a few factors and can be increased by others.

What people should really be doing, in my humble opinion, is treating their cannabis like date palms and removing fruit (or in our case flowers) that has the poorest potential. This potential is the potential crop, or total yield possible from that given plant. The plant will flower and yield something even if you do nothing. The question then becomes one of quality of yield. We're not after little popcorny larfy buds, we want NUGGIES. This is achieved by doing some intelligent pruning, but not removing solar panels, removing flower sites is how. This is called by a few different names, one popular term is lollipopping.

What the goal is in that method is to remove the flower sites that will not develop well, those with the poorest potential, which leaves the plant free to spend its available energy on growing the best flowers, the most desirable flowers. Go to Dateland's site, read their date farming primer here: http://www.dateland.com/how-are-dates-grown/
And you'll TOTALLY get it. Or at least, once I read that, I totally got it.

In summary, instead of removing solar panels, pinch out those lower bud sites instead. Let the plant photosynthesize as much as it can (without creating a hairy monster) and I think you'll really be very pleasantly surprised by the difference in results.

Hi, Ive got 2 very bushy plants ( Front left and far right on pic) that seem to block light to inner branches, that for a while were not showing through, I thought about defoluiation but now reading this im glad i didnt :-) Thanks for info :-)

Seamaiden · Jul 13, 2016

There's nothing wrong with cleaning things up, but take care not to remove too much leaf material. :) Lookin' good!

newbie1 · Jul 14, 2016

Seamaiden said:
There's nothing wrong with cleaning things up, but take care not to remove too much leaf material. :) Lookin' good!

Yes Sea, Read your replies to certain posts regarding defoliation, and makes a lot of sense. Going to keep those solar panels :-) just topping until ready to flower in about a week and a half. Great advice always. Thanks @Seamaiden :_)

newbie1 · Jul 14, 2016

Seamaiden said:
There's nothing wrong with cleaning things up, but take care not to remove too much leaf material. :) Lookin' good!

Ive got my PH and ppm pens now so can adjust accordingly, so hopefully things can only get better from here. So far just been running by luck when it comes to PH but checking my plain water and a chart that Texas Kid had put up i think ive only probably been lacking in Manganese and Iron, maybe explains the redness on my leaf stems ? Thanks for compliment :-)

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

Junk

Junk

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Junk

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

Lurkin4yrs

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

3N1GM4

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

miko

newbie1

Attachments

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

newbie1

newbie1

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

Junk

Junk

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Junk

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

Lurkin4yrs

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

3N1GM4

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

miko

newbie1

Attachments

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

newbie1

newbie1

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency