Mysterious Illness or obvious deficiency?

[Trotsky]

Howdy fellow farmers. Long time lurker - second time poster


Attached are a few pics from my Black Domina photoperiod.

Shes sitting in a 40L container of Biobizz All Mix Soil. I stopped using Biobizz Bio Grow and Biobizz Bio Bloom about two months ago which is when the first leaves started getting speckled. I suspected it was nute burn (was only doing half recommended doses, i.e 1ml/2L water, sometimes even less) and light stress. Therefore, I stopped using ferts all together, reduced the LEDs to 30% (its a 23w LED, I think comparable to a 110w fluorescent) and moved the lights significantly higher. I will say that the speckling seemed to stop and the speckled leaves below are ones that have been there since they first got burned. But the yellowing, mutated, and crunchy looking fellas are an evolving problem.


Despite these measures, she sadly still seems to grow these mutated and discolored leaves. I mean, she is beautiful on the inside, but externally she looks rather frightening.


Some things to know: I live in the city and the water is very hard here. I also flushed it already once about two weeks ago. She normally gets 100ml water every 3 days. She has been getting ONLY distilled water for the last two months, no ferts, and the lights are on easy mode and moved higher above (about 16in) from nearest leaf. I prune once in a month, perhaps less. Checked soil PH, it was solid around neutral. I've been trying out some stuff with LST and this girl has a fun little bonsai aspect to her. She was never topped, rather laid down straight to the perimeter of the container and the lead along the outside using rubber bands to fastener to the container. I also train her by tying down growthtips with soil stakes and rubber bands to spread them out along the area of the container. Its been fun, this is only my third plant. The genetics are solid too (sensi seeds). It also started off as a very normal looking ganja plant.


I have noticed that SOME but not all of the new growth is looking more natural and with fewer mutations. However, I believe over time the normal looking leaves will get this weird cupping and discoloration as well. Some growth tips on the other hand are looking very strange.

Even stranger, I just pulled and harvested her sister about a month ago. She was an autoflower Purple Skunk #3. She received the same nutes and was in the same soil mix, size container and was watered at the same time with the same amount as the Black Domina. She finished with about 13g dry weight. Only a few of her leaves were lightly speckled and none of them were mutated. Unlike the Black Domina.

So, any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Trotsky]

Well since I have attracted no help yet, I have ordered Cal Mag from Biobizz and will see how this affects my baby here. Hoping to turn her around to her healthy self since I plan on flowering her in the coming month. Wish me luck!

If the CalMag doesn't work, I'm really at a loss. The joy of farming I suppose.

 

[Beachwalker]

How does it drain?

 

[Captspaulding]

You have tmv and some nutrition issues. But that plant definitely has TOBACCO MOSIAC VIRUS.

Tobacco Mosaic Virus, TMV | Trifecta Natural

The tobacco mosaic virus uses a host of weeds and crops including marijuana, lettuce, horsenettle, beans, beets, jimson weed, potatoes and roses.

www.trifectanatural.com

 

[Trotsky]

How does it drain?

Mostly fine it seems, never been an issue with staying too wet. I frequently finger the soil to gauge it and also lift the pot, plenty of drainage holes in the container.

 

[Trotsky]

You have tmv and some nutrition issues. But that plant definitely has TOBACCO MOSIAC VIRUS.

Tobacco Mosaic Virus, TMV | Trifecta Natural

The tobacco mosaic virus uses a host of weeds and crops including marijuana, lettuce, horsenettle, beans, beets, jimson weed, potatoes and roses.

www.trifectanatural.com

My biggest fear here. Although I don't really understand how that can be because it is kept indoors and in a controlled environment with fresh outta the bag all star quality soil. I will try the Cal-mag anyways since I just ordered it but if that fails then TMV is the only alternative. Process of elimination I suppose. We will know in about two weeks.


I really don't want to believe its that, but time will tell.


I had a second plant (Autoflower Purple Skunk) growing right next to this one, often the leaves touched or rubbed. It never developed symptoms like my Black Domina here in the pics. Harvested her no problem. Had the exact same setup in everyway, even got watered the same time with the same amount (I have an auto watering pump which I put in both containers).

Edit: Reading abit more about TMV I realize the only unaccounted variable here is the scissors I use to trim my plants. I have not sterilized them recently and use them about once a month to prune. fingers crossed its still Calmag but the pics from the TMV post are way too spot on I think. Big bummer because this is my only photoperiod plant and I have put a lot of work into her

 

[Captspaulding]

You have tmv and some nutrition issues. But that plant definitely has TOBACCO MOSIAC VIRUS.

Tobacco Mosaic Virus, TMV | Trifecta Natural

The tobacco mosaic virus uses a host of weeds and crops including marijuana, lettuce, horsenettle, beans, beets, jimson weed, potatoes and roses.

www.trifectanatural.com

@Trotsky

 

[Captspaulding]

My biggest fear here. Although I don't really understand how that can be because it is kept indoors and in a controlled environment with fresh outta the bag all star quality soil. I will try the Cal-mag anyways since I just ordered it but if that fails then TMV is the only alternative. Process of elimination I suppose. We will know in about two weeks.


I really don't want to believe its that, but time will tell.


I had a second plant (Autoflower Purple Skunk) growing right next to this one, often the leaves touched or rubbed. It never developed symptoms like my Black Domina here in the pics. Harvested her no problem. Had the exact same setup in everyway, even got watered the same time with the same amount (I have an auto watering pump which I put in both containers).

Edit: Reading abit more about TMV I realize the only unaccounted variable here is the scissors I use to trim my plants. I have not sterilized them recently and use them about once a month to prune. fingers crossed its still Calmag but the pics from the TMV post are way too spot on I think. Big bummer because this is my only photoperiod plant and I have put a lot of work into her

Yeah, it’s definitely tmv buddy, there are nutritional issues as well, now, I have had plants with it, it can be genetically imprinted In seed too, not just transfer from non sterile tools, though that is a large component. I just kept growing it, it doesn’t spread to other plants as long as you practice cleaning tools in between so I figured let it roll, it threw some odd nuggets, but threw some fire too, I just thought of the plant as the comic book character two face . Cal mag isn’t a bad start with that plant, but I will say, if you are using only half of what your nutrients call for, I doubt it’s toxicity. I’m pretty sure your deficient.

 

[Beachwalker]

Mostly fine it seems, never been an issue with staying too wet. I frequently finger the soil to gauge it and also lift the pot, plenty of drainage holes in the container.

Whether or not tobacco mosaic virus actually infects cannabis or not aside, where you got just 13 g. dry from your previous harvest I would reassess my entire operation from go because something's not right friend, and some of the things you're doing like distilled water and not feeding and this and that that's not really going to be conducive to a healthy grow. These are fundamentals that you might want to go back and reassess, including your grow setup, there might be some easy changes that will help your grow along, like improved light a more fundamental approach to nutrients and other basics along those lines. Best wishes

 

[Trash_2002]

Multiple problems at once going around that plant, damn, sad little girl.

What's you tap water EC?
Drop using RO water if your tap has aceptable EC, Ro water can be a bitch for some setups/styles and line of nutrients.

I'm not sure but biobizz isn't made for softwater as far I remember.

And don't be afraid of biobizz it's virtually impossible to fry plants with that line of nutrients under normal feeding strength really.

 

[Trotsky]

Whether or not tobacco mosaic virus actually infects cannabis or not aside, where you got just 13 g. dry from your previous harvest I would reassess my entire operation from go because something's not right friend, and some of the things you're doing like distilled water and not feeding and this and that that's not really going to be conducive to a healthy grow. These are fundamentals that you might want to go back and reassess, including your grow setup, there might be some easy changes that will help your grow along, like improved light a more fundamental approach to nutrients and other basics along those lines. Best wishes

Yeah I definitely made a few errors along the way. Namely, I kept uppotting it instead of plopping her directly into the finishing pot. This definitely delayed some growth I think. The Autoflower that gave me 13g was also only my second plant ever harvested, so I'm definitely living and learning here.

Just dropped the CalMag in today. Gonna give it a few weeks and see how it affects her. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for the help!

 

[Deadstill]

Yeah I definitely made a few errors along the way. Namely, I kept uppotting it instead of plopping her directly into the finishing pot. This definitely delayed some growth I think. The Autoflower that gave me 13g was also only my second plant ever harvested, so I'm definitely living and learning here.

Just dropped the CalMag in today. Gonna give it a few weeks and see how it affects her. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for the help!

Up-potting, if done properly, will enhance growth rather than hinder. It can be tricky to master it but if done right the plants will love you for it.. I progress from tiny fabric pots about the size of a soda can, to 1 gallon to 3 gallon to 5 or 7 gallon, and then to outdoors or a 25-30 gallon final pot. I usually transplant once I start to see roots come out the bottom of the pot (I mostly run oldschool hard pots). At that point it's usually roots all the way from top to bottom and the dirt and roots slide right out of the pot without even trying. I then fill the next size up pot with my growing media, apply some root fungi and bacteria inoculant powder, stick the plant in, and then fill in the sides and pack it in all the way around the outer walls as hard as I can with my knuckles, packing in the dirt/growing media as much as I can, and then water it in to saturation. Pretty simple process, but you have to be careful handling the roots and know when it's time to up-pot.

Usually, I get zero transplant shock and the plants just keep on truckin'.

 

[GanjaJack]

Man, I'm glad I saved my seeds from the 80's and 90's. I've never seen that shit in any of them.

 

[Mikedin]

Up-potting, if done properly, will enhance growth rather than hinder. It can be tricky to master it but if done right the plants will love you for it.. I progress from tiny fabric pots about the size of a soda can, to 1 gallon to 3 gallon to 5 or 7 gallon, and then to outdoors or a 25-30 gallon final pot. I usually transplant once I start to see roots come out the bottom of the pot (I mostly run oldschool hard pots). At that point it's usually roots all the way from top to bottom and the dirt and roots slide right out of the pot without even trying. I then fill the next size up pot with my growing media, apply some root fungi and bacteria inoculant powder, stick the plant in, and then fill in the sides and pack it in all the way around the outer walls as hard as I can with my knuckles, packing in the dirt/growing media as much as I can, and then water it in to saturation. Pretty simple process, but you have to be careful handling the roots and know when it's time to up-pot.

Usually, I get zero transplant shock and the plants just keep on truckin'.

This 100% I go from about 1/2 cup size to about a 1 pint (2weeks) , then to a 1 gal (2 weeks) then 5 gal for the final pot here’s a root ball from a 5 gal I just pulled the other day (bottom side up there’s metal screen on the bottom) each of the first 3 pots root balls look like this as well after the 2 week stints in the pots normally I don’t even notice a difference in growth speed as long as you don’t let them get completely rootbound before transplanting

 

[Trotsky]

Up-potting, if done properly, will enhance growth rather than hinder. It can be tricky to master it but if done right the plants will love you for it.. I progress from tiny fabric pots about the size of a soda can, to 1 gallon to 3 gallon to 5 or 7 gallon, and then to outdoors or a 25-30 gallon final pot. I usually transplant once I start to see roots come out the bottom of the pot (I mostly run oldschool hard pots). At that point it's usually roots all the way from top to bottom and the dirt and roots slide right out of the pot without even trying. I then fill the next size up pot with my growing media, apply some root fungi and bacteria inoculant powder, stick the plant in, and then fill in the sides and pack it in all the way around the outer walls as hard as I can with my knuckles, packing in the dirt/growing media as much as I can, and then water it in to saturation. Pretty simple process, but you have to be careful handling the roots and know when it's time to up-pot.

Usually, I get zero transplant shock and the plants just keep on truckin'.

Oh for sure and I up pot the plants when necessary. I have a rather large balcony garden, so the concept isn't necessarily foreign, though you've certainly raised some new points here and I will definitely now invest in some root fungi (and particular brand you'd recommend?). My method is somewhat similar, I pop the plant outta the old pot and plop her into a new one that I've already filled and then wet the soil with some Biobizz Root Juice boosted water. I've found many times they go nuts and most of my gals don't even seem to notice the transplant at all. I like to bury them a bit deeper in every up pot though because the height of the plant is a major constraining factor in my setup. Trying to keep it low.

The thing is that I've read that Autoflowers should be exposed to as little shock as possible, because they have such a short timer in general before flowering. This I did not consider prior to up potting it. To avoid this problem, I just dropped my latest autoflower into the final pot that she'll be harvested in (just under 9gal at 40L), whereas in the past I up-potted my autoflower several times like you described (tiny fabric pot then small plastic, medium, large, final and even once right before flowering which I read was a bit of a gamble).

Ultimately I now believe the 13g autoflower I harvested may have also been falling victim to a calmag issue as some of the foilage began turning a bit spotty towards the end, though nothing as intense and outwardly expressed as this Black Domina photoperiod. It was also hard to distinguish between that and the process of senescence since it lasted about 110 days.

Anyways, we'll see when it comes to the Black Domina photoperiod here. I've sunk a lot of hours into her and for her to simply have contracted some crazy uncureable illness will be super sucky.

 

[Trotsky]

Multiple problems at once going around that plant, damn, sad little girl.

What's you tap water EC?
Drop using RO water if your tap has aceptable EC, Ro water can be a bitch for some setups/styles and line of nutrients.

I'm not sure but biobizz isn't made for softwater as far I remember.

And don't be afraid of biobizz it's virtually impossible to fry plants with that line of nutrients under normal feeding strength really.

Not entirely sure. Here is the analysis from the local water authority:

 

[Trotsky]

Yeah, it’s definitely tmv buddy, there are nutritional issues as well, now, I have had plants with it, it can be genetically imprinted In seed too, not just transfer from non sterile tools, though that is a large component. I just kept growing it, it doesn’t spread to other plants as long as you practice cleaning tools in between so I figured let it roll, it threw some odd nuggets, but threw some fire too, I just thought of the plant as the comic book character two face . Cal mag isn’t a bad start with that plant, but I will say, if you are using only half of what your nutrients call for, I doubt it’s toxicity. I’m pretty sure your deficient.

Hm I would hope not with the imprinted seeds, because I got these seeds from a reputable seed bank (sensi seeds) and the plant started off rather normally for the first few months. Then I left for a few days on vacation in May and came back to find little spots all over it which is when the calmag issue started I think. Overtime, its foliage stopped being normal, it stopped growing at speed by most accounts, but recently it has grown some more normal looking foliage after the flush.



Take a peek here, nothing too crazy happening with these leaves yet for example, though I admit it may progress more over time. You can see the first few spots of failed chlorophyll on two of them, but the 1st pic displays a rather normal leaf. Looking closer though, you can already see that one half of the center arm is growing lopsided, meaning it will eventually look like the other leaves from previous pics in the thread.

After 2 months of basically zero nutrients, I do believe it is deficient at this point. I will being using nutes again in the coming waterings and see what happens. At this point it is just an experiment. A case study if you will.

Sad because this was going to be my big summer bonsai project but she has had one too many hiccups to become the monster bush I dreamed about when I planted her in feb. oh well.

 

[Trotsky]

Not entirely sure. Here is the analysis from the local water authority:

View attachment 2016226

and here is a more indepth analysis

 

[Trash_2002]

Yep it's pretty hard water 1.0ec is a lot.
Use RO, but, you have to buffer it with potassium silicate and/or calmag before adding nutrients.

 

[ChrisSoiCy203]

Yep it's pretty hard water 1.0ec is a lot.
Use RO, but, you have to buffer it with potassium silicate and/or calmag before adding nutrients.

How many ML of Calmag is needed per gal to buffer RO water?