New to Organic where do I Start

leadplant · Dec 10, 2012

Not really sure if ewc is acidic or not - good question. It has N in it but not very much. Ive always treated ewc as essentially neutral ph stuff. The ph is kind of immaterial because of the large amount of humates it contains which acts to buffer ph swings.

There are organic growers that dont care about PH at all and dont check it. Their reasoning is that humates in the soil and lots of compost along with the microherd will buffer these swings.

It does indeed work, but I still like to get the ph in the ballpark before applying teas.

OctoberDee · Dec 10, 2012

EWC is neutral as I understand it

slap14 · Dec 10, 2012

You really shouldn't have to worry about the PH of your teas if you are growing true organic. I would never(my opinion) adjust the PH of your teas, if you are using the right ingredients it should never be an issue. Even when I was using General Organics I didn't PH according to their instructions. The only PH I check now is my soil PH after it has been cooked and thats not all that necesarry.

I personally believe if you are using General Organics or EJ you don't need to worry about your beasties because those items are not fungi friendly and the two don't play well together. Again don't get me wrong both of those are great products but because of the organic acids used to chelate nutrients they will harm the microlife. With those products you are feeding the plant not the soil(again just my humble opinion).:)

I believe Dee is right on saying EWC is neutral or pretty close to it.

Slap

OctoberDee · Dec 10, 2012

ˆˆˆˆI like that TLO attitude, Feed the soil!

Elbow · Dec 13, 2012

Compost, whether it's vermi, thermal, or static... homemade or store bought. Quality compost is an organic farmers most influential ingredient of primary importance.

Mogrow · Dec 13, 2012

JJP53 said:
Did some reading and want to give subcools soil a shot.

So with these kinds of soils can grow from veg all the way thru flower?

yes u can JJP53. and then use it again after you're done. once you see the results your ph pen or meter or whatever it is and your "nute" bottles will begin to collect dust. look into making EWC and compost and you are well on your way my friend. you don't have to alot room to do either one, i see people in apartments doing it all the time, although on a small scale.
Once you get started your soil will become a living breathing thing.

slap14 · Dec 13, 2012

Well said Mogrow, The only limitation with the supersoil is container size and length of grow(how many weeks). If the container is too small or if the strain is a long flowering sativa you will run out of food for your micro life and plant. You will then have to compensate with something to feed them both.

Slap

organicozarks · Feb 14, 2013

I would start with a simple soil mix, and supplement with compost tea. Start on the light side with the nutes in the soil, and build up as you see fit. Remember that blood, and bone meal are hot. If you use guano, and fish meals you can get away with not "composting" your soil for 4-6 weeks before you use it. If you have the time most people do this. I personally just mix up my soil, and use it straight. I have yet to burn a plant.

sun · Feb 14, 2013

Heres picture of what I use + tepid water.

5ecret 5quirrel · Mar 12, 2013

dude organics are easy maintenance, don’t buy to much products, just 4 good friends, bacteria, nematodes, protozoa, fungi. let the microbes do all the work;)

5ecret 5quirrel · Mar 12, 2013

green punk said:
Age Old, BioBizz, General Organics for liquids

is bionute just fermented organic matter?

5ecret 5quirrel · Mar 12, 2013

JJP53 said:
So I have been growing in soil with synthetic ferts and am considering converting over to organics but do have the slightest idea where to start.

i just switch recently as well, the biggest difference to me is how the plant takes up nutrition, casparian strip on the root will only allow inorganic ions (minerals) to pass through.
chemical nutes need to come in contact with the roots so that the nutes can be absorbed like NFT, DWC, ebb n flow, etc. On the other hand in soil with the soil food web bacteria with the help of fungi colonized the root area, and basically poop and die on the roots and they absorb it.

Elbow · Mar 19, 2013

and the bacteria and fungi colonize better and better the longer the soil sits undisturbed. some folks call it no-till.

wikipedia said:
No-till farming (also called zero tillage or direct planting or pasture cropping) is a way of growing crops from year to year without disturbing the soil through tillage. No-till is an agricultural technique which increases the amount of water and organic matter (nutrients) in the soil and decreases erosion. It increases the amount and variety of life in and on the soil.

Seamaiden · Mar 19, 2013

That's right! However, no-till is not necessarily the best method for all production crops. I'm going to attach a very interesting pdf discussing this.

5ecret 5quirrel · Mar 19, 2013

Seamaiden said:
That's right! However, no-till is not necessarily the best method for all production crops. I'm going to attach a very interesting pdf discussing this.

nice! tilling seems to help with soil texture and drainage. tilling can also help control the bacteria/fungi ratio. most annuals prefer a higher bacteria population that include MJ (don’t quote me on that). but sea maiden it’s so much work~~~~ till or not till, till or not till? i’m going to create my own method, after each harvest i’m going to pull the soil out of the pot and cut it in half, put it back in the pot and add fresh compost and coco mix on top. it’s call Half Ass Till. HAT.

Seamaiden · Mar 20, 2013

I do partial till. The first few years I've just had to do it, otherwise all the amendments we were putting onto the soils were going to just sit on top of the heavy clay. As the beds I've been working have become more friable, I've had to till less. However, if/when I amend, I till. Then, I reinoculate/replant cover crops.

I should note that what *I'm* discussing is with specific regard to my outdoor beds. I no longer run anything that's in a pot that's so large that this method has a place in my regimen for inside cultivation because otherwise I can't move it, or I'll hurt myself trying. (In other words, I really am a medical patient for a real reason.) All that said, I have never bothered removing roots from any soils from pots, they will break down. If I'm dumping potted soils back into a mass for recycling, and I do do this often, again, I leave root masses intact.

Elbow · Mar 29, 2013

A 69 page pdf about corn and soybean production in Iowa... really?

so, a brief skim over the important parts reveals a lower yield in corn stands in a no-till plot because it had to compete with the cover crop for nutrients...

Organic no-till corn in the wheat-hairy vetch/corn-oat-hairy vetch/corn sequence did not achieve acceptable yields in either year, due to competition with hairy vetch re-growth and poor weed management from lack of sufficient cover crop mulch. Tilled corn also suffered from lack of supplemental nitrogen in this experiment, leading to the conclusion that cover crops should not be considered as a sole nutrient source in organic corn production... As a result of these experiments, organic no-till corn is now considered too difficult for Midwest conditions

hmmm... based on the corn borer damage and poor nitrogen management?

however, the no-till soybean experiments "produced equivalent yields to tilled organic soybeans " starting in 2008 through 2011.

thanks SeaMaiden but, I can't find anything really supporting no-till being a flawed system for cannabis... based on this 69 page pdf about corn and soybean production in Iowa. which went on to support the use of no-till farming practices in this final statement of the conclusion... "Based on the beneficial effects from increased carbon inputs in long-term organic no-till crop rotations, economic benefits could also be obtained from soil carbon enhancement and greenhouse gas reduction if Clean Energy legislation and carbon markets support such practices in the future."

my summarization of that last sentence... carbon sequestration is good for the environment if congress and big business says it is...

Seamaiden · Mar 29, 2013

The title of the paper is 'Evaluation of cover crops in reduced tillage systems for organic [production].' Which means that the authors evaluated the practices associated with cover cropping and no-till farming. They cited work done not only in Iowa, but at the Rodale Institute in PA. You must have missed that part, where they discussed Rodale's findings. I also stated what I am currently practicing, and I grow other stuff besides cannabis, nitrogen-demanding veggies that have responded pretty well to cover cropping. I don't grow soybeans or silage corn, though, and definitely not on scale.

My point previously was that practicing 100% no-till may cause stratification, and it doesn't really matter what you're growing, the point is if that happens then it can't get to the amendments you're applying for it. I was looking for something from Rodale that I'd read in hardcopy about the problem to post online, but didn't find what I was looking for. I still find the pdf informative, and so I shared it.

Elbow · Mar 29, 2013

nutrient stratification in a 5 gallon bucket? seriously?... come on.

Seamaiden · Mar 29, 2013

Is everyone growing in only a 5gal bucket? I know I sure don't. But, if it's a recycled no-till bucket, I can see it being possible. So... why not? <shrug>

Do you have a beef with something I'm saying or posting?

New to Organic where do I Start

New to Organic where do I Start

leadplant

OctoberDee

slap14

OctoberDee

Elbow

Mogrow

slap14

organicozarks

sun

5ecret 5quirrel

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5ecret 5quirrel

Elbow

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

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5ecret 5quirrel

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Elbow

Seamaiden

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Seamaiden

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New to Organic where do I Start

New to Organic where do I Start

leadplant

OctoberDee

slap14

OctoberDee

Elbow

Mogrow

slap14

organicozarks

sun

5ecret 5quirrel

5ecret 5quirrel

5ecret 5quirrel

Elbow

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Attachments

5ecret 5quirrel

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Elbow

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Elbow

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

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