Newbie to dwc struggling with it all

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Smokey0418

Smokey0418

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Regular bleach. 4-5 ppm .

About .5ml per gallon.

But please measure your results before placing you plant in.

Like in a side bucket, add measure and make sure you don’t over do it.
 
brotherfrombelgium

brotherfrombelgium

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Hi what kind of set up is it, or you running UCRDWC with an over flow, or just RDWC and controlling from your main res, epi center?
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I am still unclear on many things. I see that you call yourself a newbie, it's OK if you don't know everything, but the questions being asked are important to get to root cause. If you don't know the answer or don't even understand the question, that's cool just ask for clarification. Blowing past the questions is just going to get you guesses as help. The more you give, the better your results will be.

I'm into week 5 in dwc 600 hps x4
8 x 10 x 6.6foot room.
I've resorted to plain ph water for last 24 hrs as I can't really tell what's going on whether its too much or not enough nutes...?
Have not done pk yet.
I am all canna nutes also.

What does "have not done PK yet" mean?

All canna nutes does not help much. Even canna aqua has 2 different sub types - Flora and Vega


I've never used any of them, so being specific really is a requirement. If we are going to spend the time looking this info up to help you - please make it easy on us to do it. Link to exactly what you are using is the right way to go.

Going back to the no PK thing, are you saying that you have not ever added P or K to your system? What chart or feed schedule are you using?

Source water is mains.
Ph is 6 but it rises too often.
I have half of the 8 plants not too bad but the others are really bad.
30 litre dwc x 8 total vol 140-150 lts
I have 4 hps 600w
Good circulation and an air con unit in there too. Temp is 27 to 28.5c
Water temp via chiller is 19c

So this confused me a bit more. We may be mixing terms here, I believe that all of your pots are plumbed together and you have some sort of pump pushing water thru the whole system. But I still don't understand your system. Do you have a res? is there a feed at the top of the bucket that flows out at the bottom and returns to the res? I just really don't get the plumbing. Is this a DIY system?

Source water PPM and PH?

What does PH is 6 but rises too often mean? PH is 6 coming out of the tap but rises over time? Like how much and how fast?

Active bubbling / aeration? How much?

Also wc is right down next to nothing as I on plain water no feeds added yet but the ec was 1.8. Since last Friday they have also drunk next to nothing

What is wc?

I am using all canna. Also I just add each nute to the separate feed tank individually. Ec is basically 0.4 now rh is currently 41 and temp is 27.5c

I don't understand your system / plumbing, so I don't understand this reply. What separate feed tanks? Each nute? Like what, N, P K individually? Please take some time and fully explain your nutes, how you are mixing them, how you are adding them, etc and explain it like we do not know what you are doing at all because we don't. Give us your entire nute regimen with as many specifics as you can.

Ive used silver bullet (h202)nd liquid oxygen also at recomended for 140 litres. Sorry to be bit dull whats live or sterile

Live means that you are adding beneficial microorganisms to the water which are synergistic with the plants but also out compete bad microorganisms like the ones that cause root rot.
Sterile means that you are continually killing off microorganisms in the water using (typically) H2O2.

You have to pick a method to control what is happening in the root zone, or you will be inviting whatever is out there to move in and take over. This could be pythium for example, which is what causes root rot and will kill your plants left unchecked.

Root Rot

Typically H2O2 is used over chlorine if going sterile because it also boosts O2 in the root zone which is a plus. Bleach does not.

An example of a product for running a live res is great white


I see some severe issues with nutes showing in your pictures. Knowing if this is lock out, deficiency, wrong proportions, too much - whatever - I would only be guessing because there is so much I still don't understand about the situation.
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
18
I am still unclear on many things. I see that you call yourself a newbie, it's OK if you don't know everything, but the questions being asked are important to get to root cause. If you don't know the answer or don't even understand the question, that's cool just ask for clarification. Blowing past the questions is just going to get you guesses as help. The more you give, the better your results will be.



What does "have not done PK yet" mean?

All canna nutes does not help much. Even canna aqua has 2 different sub types - Flora and Vega


I've never used any of them, so being specific really is a requirement. If we are going to spend the time looking this info up to help you - please make it easy on us to do it. Link to exactly what you are using is the right way to go.

Going back to the no PK thing, are you saying that you have not ever added P or K to your system? What chart or feed schedule are you using?



So this confused me a bit more. We may be mixing terms here, I believe that all of your pots are plumbed together and you have some sort of pump pushing water thru the whole system. But I still don't understand your system. Do you have a res? is there a feed at the top of the bucket that flows out at the bottom and returns to the res? I just really don't get the plumbing. Is this a DIY system?

Source water PPM and PH?

What does PH is 6 but rises too often mean? PH is 6 coming out of the tap but rises over time? Like how much and how fast?

Active bubbling / aeration? How much?



What is wc?



I don't understand your system / plumbing, so I don't understand this reply. What separate feed tanks? Each nute? Like what, N, P K individually? Please take some time and fully explain your nutes, how you are mixing them, how you are adding them, etc and explain it like we do not know what you are doing at all because we don't. Give us your entire nute regimen with as many specifics as you can.



Live means that you are adding beneficial microorganisms to the water which are synergistic with the plants but also out compete bad microorganisms like the ones that cause root rot.
Sterile means that you are continually killing off microorganisms in the water using (typically) H2O2.

You have to pick a method to control what is happening in the root zone, or you will be inviting whatever is out there to move in and take over. This could be pythium for example, which is what causes root rot and will kill your plants left unchecked.

Root Rot

Typically H2O2 is used over chlorine if going sterile because it also boosts O2 in the root zone which is a plus. Bleach does not.

An example of a product for running a live res is great white


I see some severe issues with nutes showing in your pictures. Knowing if this is lock out, deficiency, wrong proportions, too much - whatever - I would only be guessing because there is so much I still don't understand about the situation.

I am still unclear on many things. I see that you call yourself a newbie, it's OK if you don't know everything, but the questions being asked are important to get to root cause. If you don't know the answer or don't even understand the question, that's cool just ask for clarification. Blowing past the questions is just going to get you guesses as help. The more you give, the better your results will be.



What does "have not done PK yet" mean?

All canna nutes does not help much. Even canna aqua has 2 different sub types - Flora and Vega


I've never used any of them, so being specific really is a requirement. If we are going to spend the time looking this info up to help you - please make it easy on us to do it. Link to exactly what you are using is the right way to go.

Going back to the no PK thing, are you saying that you have not ever added P or K to your system? What chart or feed schedule are you using?



So this confused me a bit more. We may be mixing terms here, I believe that all of your pots are plumbed together and you have some sort of pump pushing water thru the whole system. But I still don't understand your system. Do you have a res? is there a feed at the top of the bucket that flows out at the bottom and returns to the res? I just really don't get the plumbing. Is this a DIY system?

Source water PPM and PH?

What does PH is 6 but rises too often mean? PH is 6 coming out of the tap but rises over time? Like how much and how fast?

Active bubbling / aeration? How much?



What is wc?



I don't understand your system / plumbing, so I don't understand this reply. What separate feed tanks? Each nute? Like what, N, P K individually? Please take some time and fully explain your nutes, how you are mixing them, how you are adding them, etc and explain it like we do not know what you are doing at all because we don't. Give us your entire nute regimen with as many specifics as you can.



Live means that you are adding beneficial microorganisms to the water which are synergistic with the plants but also out compete bad microorganisms like the ones that cause root rot.
Sterile means that you are continually killing off microorganisms in the water using (typically) H2O2.

You have to pick a method to control what is happening in the root zone, or you will be inviting whatever is out there to move in and take over. This could be pythium for example, which is what causes root rot and will kill your plants left unchecked.

Root Rot

Typically H2O2 is used over chlorine if going sterile because it also boosts O2 in the root zone which is a plus. Bleach does not.

An example of a product for running a live res is great white


I see some severe issues with nutes showing in your pictures. Knowing if this is lock out, deficiency, wrong proportions, too much - whatever - I would only be guessing because there is so much I still don't understand about the situation.
Firstly thanks for taking time to explain things to me.
The system is 8 pots 33lts piped together with 40mm pipe from the res tank with a return line back to the res tank via a pump. I also have a chiller running just from the reserve tank also. I have been using the canna aqua feed chart. Canna vega and now canna flores. I have used only sterile and have tried to use silver bullet h202 one dose but a friend who has as much experience at hydro as me said it was nutrient lick out due to too much feeding so he rexomended stopping that but I'm sure it's not lockout due to feeding etc as my ec was around 1.6 to 1.8 in mid flower. The ph has been fluctuating above 6 and has been difficult to get down to be honest.
 
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T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
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Also I am adding each nutrient as per the canna aqua feed chart separately to the res tank. Pk being pk 13/14 which is due to be added to feeds this week as per canna chart.also have 6 inch air stones per bucket
 
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chemistry

chemistry

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When I ran DWC buckets, I ran at a 6.2ph and 600ppm of nuits, your problem looks like an imbalance with your nuit mix, you need more K while your plants are in flower, this is probably why your plant is eating all its fan leaves. I'd ditch the plain water and add nuits to it. Lift your sockets off the floor above any un-planned leaks.
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
18
When I ran DWC buckets, I ran at a 6.2ph and 600ppm of nuits, your problem looks like an imbalance with your nuit mix, you need more K while your plants are in flower, this is probably why your plant is eating all its fan leaves. I'd ditch the plain water and add nuits to it. Lift your sockets off the floor above any un-planned leaks.
Thanks
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
18
I am still unclear on many things. I see that you call yourself a newbie, it's OK if you don't know everything, but the questions being asked are important to get to root cause. If you don't know the answer or don't even understand the question, that's cool just ask for clarification. Blowing past the questions is just going to get you guesses as help. The more you give, the better your results will be.



What does "have not done PK yet" mean?

All canna nutes does not help much. Even canna aqua has 2 different sub types - Flora and Vega


I've never used any of them, so being specific really is a requirement. If we are going to spend the time looking this info up to help you - please make it easy on us to do it. Link to exactly what you are using is the right way to go.

Going back to the no PK thing, are you saying that you have not ever added P or K to your system? What chart or feed schedule are you using?



So this confused me a bit more. We may be mixing terms here, I believe that all of your pots are plumbed together and you have some sort of pump pushing water thru the whole system. But I still don't understand your system. Do you have a res? is there a feed at the top of the bucket that flows out at the bottom and returns to the res? I just really don't get the plumbing. Is this a DIY system?

Source water PPM and PH?

What does PH is 6 but rises too often mean? PH is 6 coming out of the tap but rises over time? Like how much and how fast?

Active bubbling / aeration? How much?



What is wc?



I don't understand your system / plumbing, so I don't understand this reply. What separate feed tanks? Each nute? Like what, N, P K individually? Please take some time and fully explain your nutes, how you are mixing them, how you are adding them, etc and explain it like we do not know what you are doing at all because we don't. Give us your entire nute regimen with as many specifics as you can.



Live means that you are adding beneficial microorganisms to the water which are synergistic with the plants but also out compete bad microorganisms like the ones that cause root rot.
Sterile means that you are continually killing off microorganisms in the water using (typically) H2O2.

You have to pick a method to control what is happening in the root zone, or you will be inviting whatever is out there to move in and take over. This could be pythium for example, which is what causes root rot and will kill your plants left unchecked.

Root Rot

Typically H2O2 is used over chlorine if going sterile because it also boosts O2 in the root zone which is a plus. Bleach does not.

An example of a product for running a live res is great white


I see some severe issues with nutes showing in your pictures. Knowing if this is lock out, deficiency, wrong proportions, too much - whatever - I would only be guessing because there is so much I still don't understand about the situation.
 
RJA 9653
RJA 9628
RJA 9348
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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So you have all 6 bottles? Anything else going in? How do you measure the inputs? How do you adjust PH? How do you measure PH? What is the PPM of the source water, you said that PH source is 6 right?
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
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I have all 6 plus h202 and canna ph bloom down as well as normal ph up and down. I have truncheon and ph pen. Ph source is closer to seven but adjust that before adding nutes which are measured accurately by large and small syringe
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I plugged in the data I know so far here


And came up with this

Canna


Can you please go thru that calculator I linked above, put in the 100% correct info and post your chart up here?

Here is what I think. You have been given some good info from Chemistry and Smoky. I think if this were up to me to fix given the tools on hand, I would very accurately adjust the nutes based on what you post up for a chart and what you tell me about your source water. I would start with a complete res change. Then we need to pick a grow style. Sterile or live. If you added chlorine like Smokey mentioned, sterile it is. We need to embrace that and put a maintenance plan in place. Gotta look at what is in Rhizo Tonic, based on the name I would guess you are / were trying to inoculate to a live system with that product. Putting inoculants in a sterile res instantly kills them - you might as well dump that bottle down the drain.

During this process you need to watch the PH closely. PH generally climbs slowly in a healthy RDWC. Falling quickly is an indication of root rot. You don't have that. But issues with the source water and active bubbling can cause this. Contaminants in the system could cause it. Unbuffered water can cause this. Buffering is often done with a silica based product, so being specific about what you are adding allows us to see if there is any buffering going on. If not, we need to see what local buffering options you have. Make sense?
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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This is all I can find:

CANNA Aqua Flores​

Aqua Flores is a complete professional nutrient containing all the essential elements for optimal flowering and fruit formation. Aqua Flores nutrition also contains pH-stabilizers, which makes it extremely easy to keep the pH in the nutrient reservoir within the optimum pH range.
Aqua Flores fulfils the plant’s changing needs now that blooming has begun. During the blooming phase considerably less nitrogen is needed, but there is an increased need for Potassium and Phosphor.

Advantages of Aqua Flores​

  • Aqua Flores encourages fruit formation and flavor
  • Aqua Flores is easy to use, dissolves directly and is extremely suitable for growing with re-circulating hydroponic systems
  • Aqua Flores also contains pH-stabilizers which makes it extremely easy to keep the pH in the nutrient reservoir within the optimum pH range

I see no info on what specifically is in any of the products you are using. This reminds me of Advance Nutrients here in the US - you basically just gotta trust them and their feed charts. It's a bit frustrating when you clearly see a deficiency (which I do in your pictures) but don't have the data to understand how to target that deficiency with the nutes on hand.

What I will tell you is that your plants are starving. Gotta get them switched back on. Lets start with some basics.

If you can, raise the RH.
If you can, bring the light intensity down by moving them away, or if you have a digital ballast you may have some control there.
Go ahead and get them cleaned up. Trim off any dead or dying material. Get it out of the growspace since it will only call pests.
Cleaning up the underbrush and dead material will allow for more air flow under the leaves. We need to increase respiration and get them drinking again or the nutes you put in the water will be irrelevant. Position any fans you have to keep the air movement across the leaves as best you can. Blowing from the side, not from the top is what you want. Gas exchange happens in stomata on the bottom side of the leaves, and that is the area that needs to be refreshed.


I am using all canna. Also I just add each nute to the separate feed tank individually. Ec is basically 0.4 now rh is currently 41 and temp is 27.5c

Photosynthesis occurs based on respiration and the availability of photons and resources. In order to switch these plants back on (they are currently in a death spiral if you do nothing) we need to give them the right things in the right ranges. Right now you have plenty of light but the plants are not drinking / respiring so the plant is out of whack. Environment is the most important thing to control this part of the problem. VPD or Vapor Pressure Deficit is a number we can put on a grow space to asses the quality of your environment.

This is yours:

VPD


1.96 is your VPD.

This is your chart that applies to the current stage of grow in your situation

Chart


We need to get that RH up. Here is why

1669302592804


Stomata are closed as a defense mechanism. The plant thinks it is in an arid snap and closes up to ride out the drought. You gotta signal those girls that rain just fell all good, continue growing now please.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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One more point, if we can get them kick started drinking by raising the RH lowering light and fixing what the roots are sitting in, once they take off and start drinking again you will likely not need to continue to address RH - the plants will raise the RH themselves.
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

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One more point, if we can get them kick started drinking by raising the RH lowering light and fixing what the roots are sitting in, once they take off and start drinking again you will likely not need to continue to address RH - the plants will raise the RH themselves.
Ok great I have digital ballasts so will lower them to 200 or 400? Also have small humidifier which will switch on. I did a res change 2 days ago and since then have been on plain water. I added 1/4 strength to what it should be of all nutes which are aqua flores a and b 120ml rhizo 20ml cannazym 88ml and boost 70ml I haven't added pk13/14 should I add that as well. I added h202 120ml also which I believe I should add that amount same time every day?
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Ok great I have digital ballasts so will lower them to 200 or 400? Also have small humidifier which will switch on. I did a res change 2 days ago and since then have been on plain water. I added 1/4 strength to what it should be of all nutes which are aqua flores a and b 120ml rhizo 20ml cannazym 88ml and boost 70ml I haven't added pk13/14 should I add that as well. I added h202 120ml also which I believe I should add that amount same time every day?
I would go 400. This is only to aid in recovery, they will get turned back up when you are thru with symptoms.

Keep that humidifier on full blast. Are you exchanging air with a lung room? Is the humidifier sufficient to get the grow space up to 56.8% and hold it there?

VPD1


If not, add some hot water buckets with fans or something. What's cool about this is you will see the plants start to recover immediately if you can put some water in the air.

If you are using an ultrasonic humidifier, you will want to use RO or distilled water. Since your growspace is large, we are talking about gallons of water that need to go into the air. If you use that much tap water you will coat everything with a white powder.

Go back to full strength now.

Lights down.
Nutes full strength
RH 55 - 60% or as high as you can get it.
Trim up all dead or dying leaves. The ones that are severe in the pics above will never recover and can only work to block light and airflow for those that will.
Watch PH closely. Monitor the amount and timeframe of drift. Should be set to 5.8 and not drift up more than 6.0 and stay there for several days in a healthy system. My gut is that we have a little battle to go thru in the root zone as well. PH is like monitoring BP on a human. I expect yours to not settle down in the correct range without adjustment. So go ahead and adjust daily to 5.8 as needed, but record everything you do because the trend is where the diagnostics lie.

Post up new data and pictures daily. In a week we will have them growing properly again, and it will set your harvest back but be a great learning experience.
 
T

Thejackwiththeknack

49
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Ok... so I am putting in 3/4 feed now as already 1/4 in there. I am adding 240ml h202 also per day for 1 week also. I will ditch the rhizo and also add pk 14/15 at the recomended rate also. I will try and get the rh as high as you said and will report back in day or so. Thank you so much for helping me. You sir are one in a million!
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I have half of the 8 plants not too bad but the others are really bad.
30 litre dwc x 8 total vol 140-150 lts

Are they the 4 farthest from the res that are doing better?

On the H2O2, sounds like way overkill.

150 liters total system = 40 US Gal.

3% H2O2 = 30,000 PPM
12% = 120,000PPM
35% = 350,000PPM

You want 10PPM for maintenance. May be different in the EU, over here H2O2 is usually 3%, 12%, or 35% when sold by the gallon. Generally hydro stores sell the 35%, that's what I use. Using 35% at the numbers you are talking about would be more of a deep clean between grows - I wanna sterilize everything kinda level. You should already have killed off any bacterial or fungal colonies (honestly, I didn't think it looks terrible in your pics, credit the enzymes you are adding) so we just need to keep them gone. The side effects of H2O2 are that it kills cells. All cells. Even root cells. So keeping dosages low is like smoking less cigarettes in the day.

10PPM is the high end, let it fall to 0 PPM however long that takes, then add enough to bring it back to 10PPM.

For me, I would add 2mL/gal of system water when using 35%, so for you if you are using 35% you need 80mL about once a week. That's it, any more will do more harm than good.

I use these

link

Sorry amazon link not working click the one above
 

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