Nute chart vs. actual nutes used in DWC?

[Swany]

I'm setting up my first dwc, actually my first grow period. To get an idea of how much nutes I would need to get I pulled up the General Organics feeding schedule and added everything up based on my system capacity (~170 gallons). Wow - that's a lot of nutes.

The feeding schedule has you add 5ml of this and 10ml of that every week. I don't plan on changing 170 gl out every week. If we were to assume I ran the same water for 3 weeks and just topped it off before changing it out, what would be the reduction in the amount of nutes I would use?

I know this would very with smaller/larger plants, veg vs. bloom, etc. A general idea is what I'm looking for so I don't over buy on my first run. Might want to change nutes for the second run. Not set on GH either...

thanks

 

[ttystikk]

I'm setting up my first dwc, actually my first grow period. To get an idea of how much nutes I would need to get I pulled up the General Organics feeding schedule and added everything up based on my system capacity (~170 gallons). Wow - that's a lot of nutes.

The feeding schedule has you add 5ml of this and 10ml of that every week. I don't plan on changing 170 gl out every week. If we were to assume I ran the same water for 3 weeks and just topped it off before changing it out, what would be the reduction in the amount of nutes I would use?

I know this would very with smaller/larger plants, veg vs. bloom, etc. A general idea is what I'm looking for so I don't over buy on my first run. Might want to change nutes for the second run. Not set on GH either...

thanks

You may be sensing that you have an awful lot of nutrient solution relative to the needs of your plants. At 170 gallons of capacity, I would agree unless you're growing a whole forest at once!

It is an important element in hydroponic system design to ensure that system capacity matches the crop size AND the intended changeout interval. As a general rule of thumb, you want to add twice to three times your original capacity of nutrient solution in top ups over the course of use of that particular batch of nutrients. So, if your initial nutrient amount is 20 gallons, then this metric suggests that your nutrient solution is depleted and needs to be replaced once 40 to 60 gallons of water has been added to it in top ups.

Now to bring this back to a design standpoint, you need to figure out how much water your plants will use during your INTENDED nutrient changeout period, and design your system to that capacity. Doing this well reduces the cost of wasted nutrients while simultaneously ensuring your plants are getting sufficient nutrition all the way through nutrient changeout day.

 

[ttystikk]

And look into Jacks Professional Hydroponic Nutrients. Once you do the math and figure out what those hydro store nutes are really costing you compared to Jacks or nutrient salts, you're going to feel a little ripped off!

 

[Trillionsoatoms]

Have you already bought the nutes?

I run a formula with GH and add back only for most of the grow. I really only swap it to clean it... I don't know if those nutes can be run in a similar fashion , but adding back and topping off SAVES dough. As long as your ratio going back in is right you won't have any issues. A two part formula so boosters ARNT a must do but can help... Two parts are great for greenhorns. Knowing how to let the solution buffer with the right mix is all it takes...


Might want to research the Lucas formula add back and tinker with the mix from there. I run a different formula than his but started the learning curve with that info.

If u need any help I'm here...

I run ebb and flow which can be a little more forgiving but try it for yourself, I've had great results.

 

[Swany]

You may be sensing that you have an awful lot of nutrient solution relative to the needs of your plants. At 170 gallons of capacity, I would agree unless you're growing a whole forest at once!

Hey Tty - Yes, it does sound like alot ;-} I would be quite happy growing a forest but I'll keep it small for the first run, plus I don't have 7 dwarves to do all that trim for me...

My tubs are 18gl Roughnecks. My hydro mentor convinced me to get them to give the roots lots of room. I figure 10gl would get close to the bottom of the net pot but not touch it. I haven't actually asked him how much water he would shoot for in each tub. 10 gl each for 16 tubs, 10 for the leveler and what ever I put in the main reserve which is a 55 gallon barrel.

How much water do you keep in a dwc tub? If I have 5 gallons in each container then i'm looking around 90 gl plus what I keep in the main so ~110 gallons? More if I go away for the weekend (won't do that till i know the system a bit better!) Still a lot of nutes.

Back to the question - So I need to figure out how much water my plants will use, figure a capacity to keep them happy for say a week, then size the reservoir to make the system hold that much. Then I top off until change out 2 or 3 weeks down the road. Do I have it right. My next question would be how much water does a plant drink in a day, which just begs the answer 'depends...'.

If I remember correctly, I've read one plant can suck down up to a gallon a day during prime growth. 16 plants + a couple of days supply just in case i get kidnapped by the Swedish Bikini Team for a nite or two = a big reservoir.

How much water should be in an 18gl tub with an 8" net pot in it?

Will check out Jacks - my local store sells everything at msrp..., though I get a 10% discount for >$50 purchase

 

[Swany]

Have you already bought the nutes?

I run a formula with GH and add back only for most of the grow. I really only swap it to clean it... I don't know if those nutes can be run in a similar fashion , but adding back and topping off SAVES dough.

by 'adding back and topping off' you mean replenish the water, then add enough nutes to bring back the ppm right?

I am certainly a Green Horn, but my horn is not so small... :D

I have looked at the Lucas formula and like the idea. I lean toward wanting to use Organic nutes and Lucas wrote his formula for GH Flora if i'm correct. I'll look for organic Lucas formulas, though if you got a tip I would love to hear it.

The whole trust of this question is to figure out an approximate quantity of nutes needed for the whole run so I can buy big containers for a better price, without buying to much for one run. I figure I'll know more for the second run and want to change it up.

Thanks guys ;-}

 

[Trillionsoatoms]

Well

by 'adding back and topping off' you mean replenish the water, then add enough nutes to bring back the ppm right?

I am certainly a Green Horn, but my horn is not so small... :D

I have looked at the Lucas formula and like the idea. I lean toward wanting to use Organic nutes and Lucas wrote his formula for GH Flora if i'm correct. I'll look for organic Lucas formulas, though if you got a tip I would love to hear it.

The whole trust of this question is to figure out an approximate quantity of nutes needed for the whole run so I can buy big containers for a better price, without buying to much for one run. I figure I'll know more for the second run and want to change it up.

Thanks guys ;-}

No prob, ill try and help best I can!

Anyway, the setup I'm seeing is going to be huge... Like huge! Lotsa veg time and will need LOTS of lumens.

Do you have a setup already your just sliding this setup into or what ?

With the big totes you could get away with running half the number of plants and still rock it with a tree show,

Not trying to talk you into less but being new to it you got alot to lot of eggs invested in one basket... Maybe going with 1/4 of the setup till you dial it and then ripping it a new ass ?

I only say this because I know how huge these will be with enough veg and with the right lamps you will have an awesome harvest.

Just my view..

Anyway!


I use his ratio in veg and then drop the micro down and hit it with more bloom,

Only tips are

: keep meter calibrated

Know what's in your water

Get a nice tds meter, a triple read ph, tds, temp w a probe not a pen is soooo nice to have

Keep on top of checking ph and tds and knowing when to add water or water and nutes by the readings.

5.8 is a nice spot but drift is key!!


Grow only dank strains... Lol

After mixing, don't check ph.. Let sit at least 12 hrs bubbling... Then check . If the mix is right it will buffer right down and stay for days.

I rarely use ph up or down .. W my water @6.5 to 7 I just add water to raise ph, ph down? I add nutes... If its falling out and drifting hard there isn't enough buffer so I add more by topping off w nutes.

The more often you ph up or down a solution the sooner it will start to drift quickly and be hard to control... I find that less is more in this situation.

Once it starts getting hard to control I dump and remix but that might happen once a harvest or here and there. Usually I can set it and forget it (for a while at least ;) )

I'm sure there is little stuff in leaving out but if u need help just ask us!!

:D

 

[Swany]

Sweet! - I'll digest all of that when I get home. I have a local guy who has 20 year ex. who laid out the hydro setup. I don't get quite as much time from him as I would like though. He spec'ed the 18 gl tubs. My grow space is 11'x11' and I'll be running (4) 1000w's with large Awings. The plants stems will measure 2' from stem to stem. I do hope to grow some bushy plants ;-}

thx -

 

[ttystikk]

Sweet! - I'll digest all of that when I get home. I have a local guy who has 20 year ex. who laid out the hydro setup. I don't get quite as much time from him as I would like though. He spec'ed the 18 gl tubs. My grow space is 11'x11' and I'll be running (4) 1000w's with large Awings. The plants stems will measure 2' from stem to stem. I do hope to grow some bushy plants ;-}

thx -

I grow bigger plants than that in 5 gallon buckets. If you're not growing trees, you may have too big a tub for each growing site. If you eventually want to grow trees, keep them- but know that you'll need to increase the spacing between sites to 4 feet or more to have room to grow those trees.

 

[Trillionsoatoms]

^x 2

 

[Swany]

I grow bigger plants than that in 5 gallon buckets. If you're not growing trees, you may have too big a tub for each growing site. If you eventually want to grow trees, keep them- but know that you'll need to increase the spacing between sites to 4 feet or more to have room to grow those trees.

I kinda thought this was the case. My original plan was to use 5gl buckets. My guide convinced me to get 18gl. I looked up the 10gl Brute garbage cans and though 'great, pleanty of volume and only 16" round' but no, he wanted 18gl. Who am I to argue? They're all ready plumbed so the first run will have oversized containers. When I expand I might find a better use for them, or I'll get new lids and put two baskets in each.

 

[Swany]

No prob, ill try and help best I can!

Grow only dank strains.


:D

Thanks agian Trill! I went right to work on my room when I got home and never got on line so I'm just getting back to this now. Next i'll update my journal (if interested search 'wild rumpus' - it was Xmas last night ;-).

As for my light - Veg with some inexpensive MH bulbs; Ultra Sun 4200k's I think. Bloom will be Hortilux Eye Super HPS. That should be enough for 16 plants I hope. It's all a new set up. I know I'm in big for a noob but with local support and all the wonderful people here I'm thinking I can pull it off.

Deffinetly only dank strains!

First profit, then cool triple meter and Co2 and flip boxes and ...! Got two pens and test solution to start, drops for back up and double check.

Hear you on the Ph - my well water is around 6.5 to 7 and I will mix up and let settle before testing.

Know what's in the water - you mean get a lab to test it, or just measure it for ppm? I did a good quality home test and there was nothing bad to human it the water, but it's kinda hard. After treatment it's 100 ppm.

 

[ttystikk]

I kinda thought this was the case. My original plan was to use 5gl buckets. My guide convinced me to get 18gl. I looked up the 10gl Brute garbage cans and though 'great, pleanty of volume and only 16" round' but no, he wanted 18gl. Who am I to argue? They're all ready plumbed so the first run will have oversized containers. When I expand I might find a better use for them, or I'll get new lids and put two baskets in each.

Tubs that size will only be right for growing trees and as I said earlier, you'll need to move them further apart for that. Your situation isn't so bad; you could do one reservoir/mute change at the end of peak bloom and that might save you from spending quite so much on nutes.

 

[Swany]

Tubs that size will only be right for growing trees and as I said earlier, you'll need to move them further apart for that. Your situation isn't so bad; you could do one reservoir/mute change at the end of peak bloom and that might save you from spending quite so much on nutes.

I like that idea ;-} Between that and Trill's comment about not changing until the next round I'm feeling a little less pore. I'm also figuring I can keep the tubs down to about 7 or 8 gl each after talking to my local guy. What do you think about water levels?

You brought up Jacks nutes earlier. Found the company on line and I certainly like the pricing. Also found a thread here with paaaaggges of info that will take me awhile to get through. What I haven't found is some handy direction on how to use it.... do you know of such a doc or can you point me to such info?

 

[ttystikk]

I like that idea ;-} Between that and Trill's comment about not changing until the next round I'm feeling a little less pore. I'm also figuring I can keep the tubs down to about 7 or 8 gl each after talking to my local guy. What do you think about water levels?

You brought up Jacks nutes earlier. Found the company on line and I certainly like the pricing. Also found a thread here with paaaaggges of info that will take me awhile to get through. What I haven't found is some handy direction on how to use it.... do you know of such a doc or can you point me to such info?

"The doc is in" Close enough? lol

My formula;
3 grams/gallon Jacks 5-12-26
2 grams/gal calcium nitrate- get this at a greenhouse supply, it should be cheap!
1 gram/gal magnesium sulfate, aka epsom salts; I get mine from the pharmacy section of my local grocery store

The basics are above. I add the following:
1 ml/gal Mineral Matrix mix of solubilized micronutrients
3-5 ml/gal cal-mag (more in veg and early bloom, less/none late)
1-2 ml/gal potassium silicate

pH to 5.6 at the beginning of bloom and slowly let it rise until it touches 6.1 in flush.
I add a P booster a couple times during the run, always less than a week before a nute changeout. Which one matters less than using it carefully- meaning, sparingly.

 

[Swany]

I run the same 3-2-1 ratio and then dilute to my target EC. In my case, that's anywhere from 1.1 in veg to 1.8 in peak bloom.

My bloom booster changes; .5 gram/gallon of MOAB, or 5-10 ml/gal of botanicare CNS17 Bloom or ripe (these are complete nutes, I use them to bump ec between change outs), or any of a number of P boosters, used at about 1/2 label strength to start. I don't added much K per se, because I think Jacks has plenty.

I run high humidity (especially for Colorado!), so I run my ec higher than most RDWC growers in bloom, often by 25% or so. My girls look great, no tip burn, grow well and dank. I flush for 8-10 days with 2g/gal of Epsom salts and 1ml/gal of standard sugar. This results in fabulous colour, very smooth smoke, intensely aromatic flavors- and empty inventory, lol

Turns out I didn't need to read all 40+ pages, found the right info pretty quick ;-}

 

[Swany]

Ha - Jinks! 1 2 3 4 ... (is that how the kids say it?) You're post came up right when I hit my post. Thanks Stikks!

Found a retailer about 30 miles away, long lunch today ;-}

 

[ttystikk]

So the way you would do the above run with just one changeout would be to run the mix I have above from day one of veg all the way through the end of peak bloom, 'waaaay out at week 7. At the end of week 6, add your P booster, and dump it along with the rear of your nutes on schedule. Refill with a flush formula:

2 grams/gal epsom salts
2 grams/gal table sugar (or molasses, if you must) (I started with one, 2 works well now)

Run this 'til the end- this will bring out the fall colours, so be ready.

 

[Swany]

So the way you would do the above run with just one changeout would be to run the mix I have above from day one of veg all the way through the end of peak bloom, 'waaaay out at week 7. At the end of week 6, add your P booster, and dump it along with the rear of your nutes on schedule. Refill with a flush formula:

2 grams/gal epsom salts
2 grams/gal table sugar (or molasses, if you must) (I started with one, 2 works well now)

Run this 'til the end- this will bring out the fall colours, so be ready.

Why use molasses, sugar is cheaper ( to quote a well known farmer ;-}

 

[Swany]

My formula;
3 grams/gallon Jacks 5-12-26

Ok, i'm curious (warning). You use the 'classic' Jacks hydro - the Jacks Pro Hydro is rated 16-4-17, which would give more N like everyone else says is important in veg. Why the classic instead of pro?

In the blurb for Jacks Pro Hydro it says "Low phosphorus content helps prevent stem elongation. Ideal for herbs and other edibles" - I wonder who they're targeting ...