Nute chart vs. actual nutes used in DWC?

[ttystikk]

Ok, i'm curious (warning). You use the 'classic' Jacks hydro - the Jacks Pro Hydro is rated 16-4-17, which would give more N like everyone else says is important in veg. Why the classic instead of pro?

In the blurb for Jacks Pro Hydro it says "Low phosphorus content helps prevent stem elongation. Ideal for herbs and other edibles" - I wonder who they're targeting ...

That's correct, I use Jacks Classic. I put the N in myself, along with the Ca- that's what the big bag of calcium nitrate is for. I do it this way because it is both less expensive and more flexible than being stuck with someone else's idea of what's best for my garden.

I've spoken to the folks at Jacks. Believe me when I tell you that they want NOTHING to do with mmj!

 

[Swany]

So that was a silly question - calcium nitrate = 15-0-0 which would balance out the Jacks 5-12-26 nicely. Still curious why you do it this way though, if you're willing share a bit more of your secrets. You don't mention tapering off on the calcium nitrate as bloom get's going but this would seem to work well to tailer Jacks Classic from Veg to Bloom.

thanks Ttystikks

 

[Swany]

I think I should refresh the page before posting ;-} The locals didn't carry the hydro mix so I ordered it, paid a bit extra for shipping and am hoping it gets here soon. Mineral Matrix is a little harder to find on line, will check the local store. The rest is easy to get - thx again.

Jack's gotta loosen up - send him some Jilly Bean or Bubblegum and see if it changes his mind ;-}

 

[ttystikk]

So that was a silly question - calcium nitrate = 15-0-0 which would balance out the Jacks 5-12-26 nicely. Still curious why you do it this way though, if you're willing share a bit more of your secrets. You don't mention tapering off on the calcium nitrate as bloom get's going but this would seem to work well to tailer Jacks Classic from Veg to Bloom.

thanks Ttystikks

Sorry it took me a bit to see these. I am extremely happy running the nutes I outlined above. One minor correction on the silica; I don't add any of that after peak bloom, either.

 

[Swany]

Sorry it took me a bit to see these. I am extremely happy running the nutes I outlined above. One minor correction on the silica; I don't add any of that after peak bloom, either.

I'm going to follow you're plan, though Jacks not getting here on time. Since I need to get the girls out of the cloner now I bought Cyco A and B for the first feeding. I will then top up with Jacks. Does this sound dangerous? All the rest will be the same. I know you once said ' if you're using a commercial mix stick with it, don't second guess their formula' or something close.

 

[ttystikk]

I'm going to follow you're plan, though Jacks not getting here on time. Since I need to get the girls out of the cloner now I bought Cyco A and B for the first feeding. I will then top up with Jacks. Does this sound dangerous? All the rest will be the same. I know you once said ' if you're using a commercial mix stick with it, don't second guess their formula' or something close.

You should be safe. One thing to keep in mind is that a pot plant is not really much different than most other garden vegetable plants. If it's good for tomatoes and roses, it will grow weed. Really! Just follow dosing instructions carefully and take it easy on small young plants no matter what nutes you're using.

 

[Swany]

You should be safe. One thing to keep in mind is that a pot plant is not really much different than most other garden vegetable plants. If it's good for tomatoes and roses, it will grow weed. Really! Just follow dosing instructions carefully and take it easy on small young plants no matter what nutes you're using.

It is kinda funny. In the whole rest of the yard we try like crazy to get rid of weeds. They even grow in the fresh gravel I layed down, right on top of the premium fabric underlay. Then in a small room in my shop I'm supper concerned about getting weeds to grow...

On a side note, fired up my room during the day and it hit 92. I'll be running at night and looking closely at that creek soon. Details in my journal in...

 

[Swany]

"The doc is in" Close enough? lol

My formula;
3 grams/gallon Jacks 5-12-26
2 grams/gal calcium nitrate- get this at a greenhouse supply, it should be cheap!
1 gram/gal magnesium sulfate, aka epsom salts; I get mine from the pharmacy section of my local grocery store

The basics are above. I add the following:
1 ml/gal Mineral Matrix mix of solubilized micronutrients
3-5 ml/gal cal-mag (more in veg and early bloom, less/none late)
1-2 ml/gal potassium silicate

pH to 5.6 at the beginning of bloom and slowly let it rise until it touches 6.1 in flush.
I add a P booster a couple times during the run, always less than a week before a nute changeout. Which one matters less than using it carefully- meaning, sparingly.

A few questions if you're willing. I went to the largest local garden store looking for strait additives and they had none. For instants - calcium nitrate, I assume you mean a strait chemical. All I could find were fert additives with a bunch of stuff along with calcium (derived from something) and nitrate (derived from something). For potassium silicate I just bought Cyco Silica. I'm guessing I would just buy my favorite hydro store cal-mag supplement for cal-mag...? Epson salt was not difficult ;-}

Could you elaborate on calcium nitrate, cal-mag and potassium silicate? I'll assume that until I get Mineral Matrix I can use another brand of micro nutes with little loss of grow power.

thanks Ttystikk

 

[ttystikk]

Cal mag can be found at any hydro shop. Ask. Ask for Pro-tekt silica and they should be able to help you. As for calcium nitrate, this is a base nutrient salt that other formulas are comprised of. I got it at a wholesaler.

 

[Swany]

Cal mag can be found at any hydro shop. Ask. Ask for Pro-tekt silica and they should be able to help you. As for calcium nitrate, this is a base nutrient salt that other formulas are comprised of. I got it at a wholesaler.

They were trying to hand me a cal-mag when I was looking for it at the hydro shop, I kept saying 'not that' cause it was a liquid. I think they thought I'm nuts ;-}

No matter now. I do want to thank you for sharing your formula and I'm going to keep it for future use. For now, i've decided to go el natural so when I start selling I can say that I did. To me, the raw nutrients are about at natural as you can get but I learned a long time ago not to argue with the customer. After I develop a reputation I'll start branching out.

 

[ttystikk]

I went halfway organic by topdressing with earthworm castings on top of my substrate mix. This works for me because I topdrip as well as RDWC.

 

[z pine]

General organics is not going to work well in deep water culture .. they use fermented sugars .. no bueno

 

[z pine]

If your looking for a clean mixing formula..Try using the original general hydro flora micro grow and bloom .. stack with botanicare cal mag plus .. one drop superthive per gallon and some great white .. done ..

 

[Capulator]

You may be sensing that you have an awful lot of nutrient solution relative to the needs of your plants. At 170 gallons of capacity, I would agree unless you're growing a whole forest at once!

It is an important element in hydroponic system design to ensure that system capacity matches the crop size AND the intended changeout interval. As a general rule of thumb, you want to add twice to three times your original capacity of nutrient solution in top ups over the course of use of that particular batch of nutrients. So, if your initial nutrient amount is 20 gallons, then this metric suggests that your nutrient solution is depleted and needs to be replaced once 40 to 60 gallons of water has been added to it in top ups.

Now to bring this back to a design standpoint, you need to figure out how much water your plants will use during your INTENDED nutrient changeout period, and design your system to that capacity. Doing this well reduces the cost of wasted nutrients while simultaneously ensuring your plants are getting sufficient nutrition all the way through nutrient changeout day.

I would say that is too long between change outs. You should change the water once the plants have drank 2/3 of the volume in your tank, minimum.

 

[ttystikk]

I would say that is too long between change outs. You should change the water once the plants have drank 2/3 of the volume in your tank, minimum.

Do you replace the water used with fresh? If not, then EC and then pH get out of whack fast, IME. I top up with water distilled from the air in the same sealed room the system is in.

If you do top up with water, what I hear you saying is that once you've added 3 gallons/parts to a system that originally had four gallons/parts, you consider it depleted and you replace it. How often do you do that?

This is suddenly a VERY important question, as I've recently been 'encouraged' to grow trees and bring my counts down.

 

[Capulator]

The old rule of thumb for hydroponic systems, is when the plants have taken up 2/3 the volume of water in the resevoir, you do a complete change out. So if I have a 100 gallon res, once the plants have taken up 66 gallons, I would change it all.

In my current RDWC, I do not top off. I let the plants drink about 80 gallons of the available 130, and then I drain 90% off (I leave about 10% now for the bennies, and so I don't shock the plants while I am doing a changeout (just theory behind this one, no sound science). Then I change the rest with new solution. Sometimes if I don't have nutes for the day or I want to procrastinate, I will top off with tap and pH, so the pump doesn't run dry.

 

[Capulator]

Tty if you pH and EC are fluctuating wildly I would say you have a problem. You need to find that sweet spot and let it ride.

 

[ttystikk]

Tty if you pH and EC are fluctuating wildly I would say you have a problem. You need to find that sweet spot and let it ride.

Nah, mine's rock solid. I add water back and bring up EC as it drifts down, it sounds like you change your nutes an awful lot more than I do. I said what I said because I had this vision of the water level dropping by 2/3, which definitely sends things off if I let it happen in my system.

I'm changing from a dozen 5 gallon buckets per zone to four sites, each with a 27 gallon tub. Actual capacity based on design water levels goes from 40 to 80 gallons... I think I'm safe from a lot of excess nute changes.

I'll hang my lights in the corners and hang a bare thouie in the middle, for a total of 5kW. I need to get my plant count down, so I'm considering an off-site location for my veg tent- which itself would drop to three stages of four plants, for a total of 12 plants.