Nutrient Build Up. How Much To Flush.

[Tylergrower]

Okay I've been plagued with this for 2 weeks now but my plants are drooping and experiencing bent tips and or burnt tips it seems typical of nutrient build up in the soil. Its very strange that about 2hrs after watering they spring back to life for a few hours and then collapse again and I have no idea why they would do that. I flushed them 15Liters (pot is 15L) at 6pm last night and 2hrs later they bounce back up but now at 11am this morning I get up to see them drooping again, the pot is still very wet. I'm growing in coco coir under 600w HP's lights dimmed to 400w for time being as I am upping the light gradually. Should I flush again maybe I didn't flush enough? Wait for them to dry out as I say they are still very damp due to the heavy soaking. Please help I'm so worried Ive done irreversible damage. I want to put them intended flower now but I want to get dialled in first. Also may be something important to add is that I'm using recycled coir from my last grow. More prone to salt build up?

 

[Tasty Buds]

What, and how much are you feeding? Any pests?
They just look over watered in the pics.
I see what looks to be the beginnig of nute burn. Need a ill more info.
EC/ph going in, and also coming out? Water temps? Air temps? Air flow?

 

[Tylergrower]

Thanks for your reply. Feeding at ph 5.8 EC 1.4-1.6 of 3:2 ratio pink:brown of General Hydroponics. Water temp is room temperature usually. Air temp does not exceed 28C. Air flow is good I think. Coming out its at like EC 3.2 pH 5.3. My coir is recycled from a previous grow. The soil is still wet in these pics 18hrs later and the bottoms are soggy still but I've never watered so much before. They popped up after the big flush with plain PhD tap water but they tend to pop back to life after watering and then several hours later they start drooping again. The tip burn and clawing on most, and dark greeness on one of my plants make me think serious salt buildup/nitrogen toxicity but I really don't know I'm still learning. I originally thought over watering but they pop up after watering and people say you can't over water in coco. As for pests I have noticed the odd tiny flies almost like little fruit fpies in the grow tent but not sure they would cause this.

What, and how much are you feeding? Any pests?
They just look over watered in the pics.
I see what looks to be the beginnig of nute burn. Need a ill more info.
EC/ph going in, and also coming out? Water temps? Air temps? Air flow?

 

[showmegreen]

What does your roots look like?
If you are crazy low on your ph on input shit like that can happen. If it jumps considerably between input and runnoft. You got a buildup in yer medium. But you already know that. Dry her up in there, git air movin, you got a ph probe? Check yer ph of substrate. I've heard flushing is bout pointless with that coco if its old. Don't know personally myself. You must amend with counter measures. Low voltage dc stimulation works wonders to breakin loose blockages. I do have experience wit that. But it's 'At Own Risk' fer yerself. Google it there is a bunch of knowledge on processes and proceedures.You' be amazed at what a good ol AA battery can do.

 

[Tasty Buds]

You said you are using coco. Correct? It's very hard to over wter.
Your EC is much too high, and when your ph is coming out lower than what you'r putting in that can be a bad sign. You MAY havr some root rot going on???
Try to keep water temps between 65-70, flush with 6.1 water, at 65 degrees a few times using some beneficial bacteria (I really like H & G Roots Excel.) Get your ec down below 1.4. A healthy root zones ph should rise a bit from what goes in.
So give it the flush w/some beneficial, and get your feeding down to 1.2-1.4 *your plants will tell you what they like. Give it a couple days, and hopefully they'll rebound. If not, post again with some pics. I am very basic when feeding. Either Lucas formula for coco 6 micro, 9 bloom (GH, AN, or pretty much any 3 or * just use micro/bloom), or Botanicar pro blend grow, then bloom at 6 ml per gallon, 2.5 ml cal mag, 2.5 silica, and the only extras I really ever use is Roots excel, and Drip Clean at .4 ml per gallon (that will keep the salt build up from happening)
Oh, also water/feed till ya get about 15/20% runoff.
They should rebound. Hope this helps. If not, tell me what's going on a 3-5 days.

 

[Tylergrower]

It is pure coco yes. I am very concerned about having to start again it would kill me inside starting over. I really hope its not root rot as I may have not let them dry out enough throughout the last 2 weeks but at one point I thought I was letting the dry too much. Since my last post I've flushed the crap out enough of them and got the runoff from 3.6 EC to 1.0 EC. Do you think its safe to just wait a couple days till they dry out before feeding with a light nuts solution. Or do I need to get on and buy some of this beneficial bacteria stuff tomorrow and flush while the coir is wet. I've kept it as soaked now for a whole 24hrs and it will stay soaked now for another 24 because ive flushed further. Any way to speed up drying in fiber pots? Thanks so much for helping you could be a life saver. Literally lol.

You said you are using coco. Correct? It's very hard to over wter.
Your EC is much too high, and when your ph is coming out lower than what you'r putting in that can be a bad sign. You MAY havr some root rot going on???
Try to keep water temps between 65-70, flush with 6.1 water, at 65 degrees a few times using some beneficial bacteria (I really like H & G Roots Excel.) Get your ec down below 1.4. A healthy root zones ph should rise a bit from what goes in.
So give it the flush w/some beneficial, and get your feeding down to 1.2-1.4 *your plants will tell you what they like. Give it a couple days, and hopefully they'll rebound. If not, post again with some pics. I am very basic when feeding. Either Lucas formula for coco 6 micro, 9 bloom (GH, AN, or pretty much any 3 or * just use micro/bloom), or Botanicar pro blend grow, then bloom at 6 ml per gallon, 2.5 ml cal mag, 2.5 silica, and the only extras I really ever use is Roots excel, and Drip Clean at .4 ml per gallon (that will keep the salt build up from happening)
Oh, also water/feed till ya get about 15/20% runoff.
They should rebound. Hope this helps. If not, tell me what's going on a 3-5 days.

 

[Tasty Buds]

Root rot (pythium) ime is the worst in a large grow space, as there's lots of cleaning, and no production for a bit. It's not nearly as common in the winter. IF you have rot, and I doubt it, you can battle through, and if mild enough can be reversed in veg especially.
That Roots Excel (kinda pricey, but a great product) can battle it.
To make a long story longer....Flush her with 6.1-6.2 ph with benaficials, and make sure your water temps are in range for a few days, then start back with low strength nutes. You'll be ok. The pythium thing is doubtful, but you don't want it

 

[Tylergrower]

I have already flushed with pH 5.8 tap water (no nutes) until runoff was about 1.0 EC from 3.6 EC (the highest graduation on my meter lol). Given it is 7pm now and I'll be sleeping soon having soaked them premeturepy with 5.8 what should I do come morning, I don't expect them to have dried out much in the morning but I can make a big journey for some of this root excel and in the morning and instead next feed with half strength nute solution (0.9 EC) at about this time tomorrow when They've dried out. I've been trying to figure this problem out for 2 whole weeks they've been wilti g and then bouncing back constantly and it been driving me mad. I thought it was the big lights at first having an influence, then low humidity now thinking its over or underwater and now it seems like it must have been nutrient salt toxicity. Hopefully this flush will have sorted it once and for all. Thanks for your help and I'll get back to you tomorrow if you don't mind.

Root rot (pythium) ime is the worst in a large grow space, as there's lots of cleaning, and no production for a bit. It's not nearly as common in the winter. IF you have rot, and I doubt it, you can battle through, and if mild enough can be reversed in veg especially.
That Roots Excel (kinda pricey, but a great product) can battle it.
To make a long story longer....Flush her with 6.1-6.2 ph with benaficials, and make sure your water temps are in range for a few days, then start back with low strength nutes. You'll be ok. The pythium thing is doubtful, but you don't want it

 

[Tasty Buds]

Whenever I've got into trouble in the past w/grows, I've always made things more complicated than things need to be. The flush, and 1.0 e'd is a good start. If the ph stabilized, you might come back to healthier plants? Keep feedings light. It's easier to add and fix a garden, than salvage sick plants.

 

[MW7945]

Get Hydroguard, 2mL per gallon. Feed at 9:6 mL for Bloom:Micro. Stop flushing. You're going to throw everything out of wack. Coco should be wet always. Would even recommend multiple feeds a day.

 

[MW7945]

There's really only two things that will cause buildup. Not watering until you get runoff, and letting it dry out

 

[Tylergrower]

Hi again, last night after the flush they popped up again as you can see from the pictures. They always seem to bounce back after a watering and then Start drooping by the morning. I mean do these look like over watered because the pots certainly feel well wet and heavy. But then why have they been responding positively immediately (2hrs) after watering. I'm tempted to keep on watering till runoff on a couple despite that they're still wet. Check these pics out. I watered at 18:00 last night and its 12:00 now. At 22:00 they looked great. Its almost like its saying they need watering but they just don't (I could stand corrected) the pot is heavy and the topsoil is still wet.

Whenever I've got into trouble in the past w/grows, I've always made things more complicated than things need to be. The flush, and 1.0 e'd is a good start. If the ph stabilized, you might come back to healthier plants? Keep feedings light. It's easier to add and fix a garden, than salvage sick plants.

 

[Tasty Buds]

What was your ph comming out last time you fed? Looks like you'r getting a cal mag lockout. See how the edges of almost all growth looks kinda burnt?
Oh your water so the ph coming out is in range. If it was in range, add 2.5 ml cal mag.
Add the benaficials, with the cal mag, and let the medium dry out some.
How long have they been in that sized 11 L? Try that Roots Excel *silver bottle if they have. Once your ph is stable, and you have the bacteria, let em dry out. Check to see if they'r rootbound as well.

 

[Tasty Buds]

Oh, if that is 1 plant in 11 L, good change you have rootbound plants
You said coco??? Right? The last post you said top soil

 

[Tylergrower]

There's really only two things that will cause buildup. Not watering until you get runoff, and letting it dry out

Thanks for your replies. I have indeed been watering without runoff so maybe you are right. In regards to wateri

Oh, if that is 1 plant in 11 L, good change you have rootbound plants

Do you think? I don't understand how that could be given I've used these pots before. By the way they are in 15L pots and I've gone all the way through flower in this size pot with SKUnk varieties.I'm not saying you are wrong, they have been in these pots for a month or more I think. I've had trouble this veg cycle. Oh and that is 2 plants in 2 of those pots.

 

[Tasty Buds]

You'r NOT watering till runoff??? How are you getting run off ph?
I think I said in 1 of my posts yestarday water to 15-20% runoff. That's what caused the build up, and an unhealthy root zone. Always water to run off. Still my advise is the same in terms of flush it out, and add benaficials, add a lol cal mag, and let em dry out.

 

[Tylergrower]

You'r NOT watering till runoff??? How are you getting run off ph?
I think I said in 1 of my posts yestarday water to 15-20% runoff. That's what caused the build up, and an unhealthy root zone. Always water to run off. Still my advise is the same in terms of flush it out, and add benaficials, add a lol cal mag, and let em dry out.

I will water until runoff now lol. I got the runoff pH at the beginning of doing the flush. Could they be rootbound as they have been in these pots a long time now. Longer than I would usually keep them in veg growth and its a different breed. I'll cut the pot and check because you never know. I'll get some cal mag and the benificials and excel and add it to a weak feed. And wait until it dries out before adding? Because they are still wet from last flush. Also why are they poppi g up after a water and then drooping off again. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Tasty Buds]

I will water until runoff now lol. I got the runoff pH at the beginning of doing the flush. Could they be rootbound as they have been in these pots a long time now. Longer than I would usually keep them in veg growth and its a different breed. I'll cut the pot and check because you never know. I'll get some cal mag and the benificials and excel and add it to a weak feed. And wait until it dries out before adding? Because they are still wet from last flush. Also why are they poppi g up after a water and then drooping off again. It doesn't make sense to me.

Sounds like a plan. Yeah, good chance with em being in the pots that long, and not watering to runoff in the past has come to bite ya. Roots aren't happy. Happy roots, and good environment ='s happy plants

 

[Tylergrower]

I've waited 52 hrs after that flush for the pots to dry out mostly. I've just done a light feed watering with some cal mag too and I'm getting runoff pH of 4.7. Is that way too low meaning my coco is too acidic and the EC was about 2.0. PH going in was 5.8 and EC 1.4 (1.0 before I added the cal mag). Any idea if this is okay or do I need to do something? It took 5L of that feed to get some runoff.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

I wouldn’t try to read the runoff ph in Coco. It throws t out of whack. Just make sure it’s going in at 5.8. That’s all you can do anyway. That runoff ec is not too crazy high. I wouldn’t want it getting too much higher from the Going in. Make sure you keep it watered and have a good amount of runoff and keep r at 5.8 goin in. If the runoff ec keeps going up your letting it dry too much or not giving enough runoff. IMHO.