Nutrient Comparison Testing

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

Hey guys, was thinking about doing some additional testing with the new CS nutrients compared to several popular brands.

Looking at the past say year or two of various testing results, according to OUR independent results; most results show that Heavy 16 is one of the best and complete choices for a UC system. Coming in second would be House & Garden Aqua Flakes and about two additives maybe. Third would be either Ionic or the DM Gold line. One part powders are also known to do well in the UC system like Veg+Bloom and Maxi from GH.....

Question is where does the new CS nutrient line fit into this ranking of sorts?

I would be interested in your experience with any testing or comparison that was done with the nutrient brands mentioned here.

Specifically; do you guys think CS nutrients are better than the Heavy 16 line in the UC system? Whichever one you feel is better, please explain in detail why and how the product was applied and used.

Still in the planning stages at this time, but setting up for a comparison between these two nutrient lines in the UC system. Will then work our way down the line with the other nutrients that we thought ranked in the top 5 best choices.

 

[RollinEndough]

Dutch Master > H&G.

All my money is on CS. None of the others listed are specifically formulated with a reduction in Nitrogen to compensate for the growth style of the UC.

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

I dont agree with the nitrogen excess, have never had this issue probably because we do not over feed.....besides by the time you add the lacking or needed cal/mag with CS nutrients you will be increasing the nitrogen content anyhow. Hope you have some better reasons than that.

If you take tissue samples during flowering and during veg cycles you would see the nitrogen actually increases during flowering, a lot more. MORE nitrogen needed for flower than veg........

 

[KitsapGrapeApe]

i just can't get over the price of heavy 16 its super high for a base.

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

I should also mention that during these test we will have a "control" system running that will be using a ammonia free formula.

It is shocking to me that more ammonia free formulas are not available for hydroponic systems. I currently know of only two brands. It seems everyone ignores the fact that when running a sterile type system in true hydroponics like DWC or RDWC that you would be missing the bacteria that converts ammonia to something the plants can actually use. Yet still you find up to 25% ammonia content in "hydroponic" formulas. This seems like such common sense and a no brainer you would think....... they will tell you either the plants need ammonia which is hogwash, or they tell you it is for a "performance" gain.....ROFL!!

What you will find in the coming future as more studies are being done and more is learned by the people who make nutrients is that ammonia free nutrients is the way to go for true hydroponics. You heard it here first.......

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

True that! The price is a bit high for Heavy 16! But once you add in all the cost of additives that you will not need anymore the price gets at least a "little" better......

 

[LexLuthor]

If you take tissue samples during flowering and during veg cycles you would see the nitrogen actually increases during flowering, a lot more. MORE nitrogen needed for flower than veg........

I know they need ample N during the 1st few weeks of 'stretch', but after that I always drop the N down little by little and up PK until flush time. So are you saying they need more N during the entire bloom phase or just during the 'stretch'??

 

[RollinEndough]

I dont agree with the nitrogen excess, have never had this issue probably because we do not over feed.....besides by the time you add the lacking or needed cal/mag with CS nutrients you will be increasing the nitrogen content anyhow. Hope you have some better reasons than that.

If you take tissue samples during flowering and during veg cycles you would see the nitrogen actually increases during flowering, a lot more. MORE nitrogen needed for flower than veg........

I think you disregarded what I had to say prematurely without giving it thought.

By your statement one would assume you think that by feeding low enough with an improper NPK ratio as not to show excess signs of Nitrogen that they wouldn't be depriving the plants of the other essential elements.

With the reduction of Nitrogen in CS, even after adding in CalMag, is it close to other nutrient lineups when it comes to Nitrogen? Maybe do the math here and see if there isn't a notable difference?

I believe it still is the lowest in Nitrogen and feeding at the recommended EC strength will have people calling you asking what you did to get that super tasty flavor and aroma. After putting in months of work, hearing people say it's some of the best they've tried, is as good as it gets. My satisfaction needs no other reasoning.

 

[RollinEndough]

I know they need ample N during the 1st few weeks of 'stretch', but after that I always drop the N down little by little and up PK until flush time. So are you saying they need more N during the entire bloom phase or just during the 'stretch'??

CS feed chart recommends a 50/50 Veg/Bloom drink for this transition period to tackle just that.

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

No I think you misunderstood my statement rollin. And you can make the assumptions if you want, but I do not. I can not help the fact that others will read this and think if they use LESS of the nutrient with improper ratios to reduce nitrogen content that they would be depriving the plant of other minerals??

The bottom line is thats plants need MORE nitrogen in flower than they do in veg so I do not buy the less nitrogen ratio card......tissue samples say something completely different.

And the other fact is that people over feed in tremendous proportions!

Over feeding is running rampant and you combine that with the fact that MOST growers do not even understand how to flush properly as they think starving the plant for the last 2 weeks does something.

So another MYTH gets created that if you use less nitrogen that your weed will taste better.

SAD!!

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

And your 100% correct rollin...CS nutrients DOES indeed have less nitrogen than other formulas, WAY TO LITTLE!!! Which is why you need to be adding all the cal/mag in the first place!!!

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

And yet another MYTH is that nitrogen causes your plant to stretch.......so not true.

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

Another thing I am totally amazed at is with all the experience and knowledge that is here, you do not read anything about "ammonia" and its misuse in hydroponic nutrients. This one blows me away for sure every time.

I thought that after understanding that in water culture systems like the UC for example, the biology that exist in soil is not present, and if it is present at all...... not near in the numbers and health and bio-activity that is needed for proper nitrate conversions to take place. With this in mind the addition of ammonia in hydroponic nutrient formulas seems counter productive to say the least. Yet no one bats an eye even......

I guess folks do not really know what ammonia is because if they did, I do not think they would want it in there nutrient solutions.....just the FUMES of ammonia is enough to wake up a person that was completely knocked out!!

Ammonia is a deadly toxic poison to the plants until it is converted by bacteria to nitrates which the plants can use.

So I guess having up to 25% of toxic poison ammonia in your solution that will NEVER get converted to nitrates is ok????? hmmmmmm.......

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

And speaking of bacteria and nitrogen, lets discuss that a bit.

Could it be possible that people misusing heavy teas loaded with biology in the UC system or other root inoculates that contains a concentration of bacteria that turns ammonia into nitrogen nitrates???????

Could this be where the unwanted nitrogen is coming from?????? hmmmmmmmm

How many people use tea's and bacteria type root inoculates through out the flowering stages????

People need to make a decision if they are going to run a "sterile" program or not. And whichever they choose they need to make sure that the nutrients they use matches the method of growing that was chosen at the start. How many people are doing this correctly?? And what guidelines are they following??

Why on earth would you use a nutrient with up to 25% ammonia in it when you know you are going to be using products like Zone or H202????? It makes ZERO sense!!!!

People wonder what the problem is when they see there plants put into a UC system turn about 4 shades of yellow and almost die the first couple weeks in the UC system....everything under the sun for a reason this happens from lumen shock to high EC levels gets the blame ...... when it is mostly due to all the toxic poisons that is present in the solution from the nutrient you used combined with H202 and Zone to help "keep your roots white"........

 

[Camnibus]

I've never seen azos have an affect like it did in my UC. Overshot nitro so bad I was picking cabbage for a week.

 

[AdvancedBioHydroponics]

Yes sir camnibus, it happens more than you would think and more times than not the culprit is not identified correctly.

A current study being conducted as we speak is trying to tie bacteria out breaks directly to the ammonia content in the nutrient base and/or additives. It seems there is evidence to support that "pathogens" and ammonia content are also directly related. IMHO it would help to explain a large number of root rot victims even though ALL conditions were on target. How many times have we heard a grower post up saying they got root rot and the water temp is on target, the EC levels are on target, and in most cases H202 or Zone was already being used!!!

Could it be that the ammonia content attracted or created favorable conditions for unwanted pathogens to flourish??? That is what current evidence is showing and also what the test being conducted are trying to prove.......

 

[PrefersHam]

have never had this issue probably because we do not over feed.....besides by the time you add the lacking or needed cal/mag with CS nutrients you will be increasing the nitrogen content anyhow. Hope you have some better reasons than that.

As usual I like what your saying ABH just use fewer words you drag on forever. Like a professor drones on way too long and you really only need to pick out the important stuff.

What you will find in the coming future as more studies are being done and more is learned by the people who make nutrients is that ammonia free nutrients is the way to go for true hydroponics. You heard it here first.......

No, I read it in several text books. But, way to give your self too much credit as usual.


Peace,


Ham

 

[RollinEndough]

And your 100% correct rollin...CS nutrients DOES indeed have less nitrogen than other formulas, WAY TO LITTLE!!! Which is why you need to be adding all the cal/mag in the first place!!!

 

[LexLuthor]

^^^^^^Thats too funny!! LMAO

 

[PrefersHam]

hahahahahahahahah!!!