Nutrient lock-out. How to properly flush soil ?

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MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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Have you checked your pH runoff? The pH in your pots is the most important thing. So by adjusting water pH you can very quickly get rid of lock out by making the nutrients available. I suggest learning when hey need what nutrients and what pH they are used at. Many people choose number and that's the pH they run when you should really be changing it throughout the cycle
to get the best results.
pH lock-out ? Never seen that in my plants in 40 years of growing. Lockout from root damage from over watering is more than likely the case.
 
Keod

Keod

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28
4x4 tent . I turnoff the 220w light when the weather gets to hit to keep them in the ideal temp range .
 
Keod

Keod

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Stupid question.
But if I flush my plants with 3 times the volume of my pots with water with 1/2 strength of nutrients. Wouldn't any excess nutrients be flushed to be then only leaving the nutrients from the wash ? At 1/2 strength?
Meaning that it would be okay ?
Would that stop the lock ? Or at least get me back on the right track ?
 
Piero

Piero

46
18
I'm sorry I didn't read you are in week 7 of flower. There would be no need to flush until you're ready for harvest. It's to late my friend. There isn't enough time to make the correction before harvest.
 
Keod

Keod

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Here is the quality of the water from my town . Sorry its in French.
But my ph meter reads between 6 and 7 .
 
Screenshot 20210427 194755 Chrome
Screenshot 20210427 194816 Chrome
Keod

Keod

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Hey guys little update.
So after just givibg them just plain water i think they are looking beter ?
It might be because of the light since i took em out the tent to the kitchen sink to make it easier for extra run off( i tried to aim for 20%).

I will send pictures tomorrow morning to see your opinions.

I think my mistake was that :
1 - giving nutrients every watering and maybe in to big doses. Or not giving more just more plain water feedings.

2- Not watering until there is a certain run-off. I realised that i hardly never watered with a little runoff... wich could be the reason why i had my problems?

I will be more considerate about my watering / ph and Ec (will buy) for the next run !
 
Piero

Piero

46
18
Hey guys little update.
So after just givibg them just plain water i think they are looking beter ?
It might be because of the light since i took em out the tent to the kitchen sink to make it easier for extra run off( i tried to aim for 20%).

I will send pictures tomorrow morning to see your opinions.

I think my mistake was that :
1 - giving nutrients every watering and maybe in to big doses. Or not giving more just more plain water feedings.

2- Not watering until there is a certain run-off. I realised that i hardly never watered with a little runoff... wich could be the reason why i had my problems?

I will be more considerate about my watering / ph and Ec (will buy) for the next run !

consider having this handy , I don’t what is with this buf is miraculous. It will bring plants back from the dead . Check it out on You Tube .

17BD7BB3 EEB9 4B89 92A1 DF445EA335B5
 
Keod

Keod

102
28
Update .
So i have the feeling my plants are doing better or at least that the dammaged has slowed down or stopped , maybe back on track not sure ?
Appart for the plant that only showed problems afterwards who seems to be doing worse (right plant on the first row).
What do you think ?
 
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Piero

Piero

46
18
Update .
So i have the feeling my plants are doing better or at least that the dammaged has slowed down or stopped , maybe back on track not sure ?
Appart for the plant that only showed problems afterwards who seems to be doing worse (right plant on the first row).
What do you think ?
They look great to me ! Perky and alive
 
Effendi

Effendi

112
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I think my mistake was that :
1 - giving nutrients every watering and maybe in to big doses.
giving nutrients every watering is NOT a mistake, not being aware of your EC is. If you are unable to ph or determine what Exactly makes up whatever ppm you have(which you don't know either) is your mistake friend.

Or not giving more just more plain water feedings.
That is a safe default if you are unable to know your ph and ppm/ec
2- Not watering until there is a certain run-off. I realised that i hardly never watered with a little runoff... wich could be the reason why i had my problems?
exactly Backward. You should NOT water until there is runoff....ever. That is not the reason you had problems, my guess is your real issue was heat/ventilation/air movement, but your likely issue was guessing with the Nute bottle.

Here's a suggestion for someone who does not have access to meters, carefully follow the instructions on the bottle -25%. So if it calls for 1tp per gallon. default to a carefully measured 3/4 tp per gallon. And water every time with that strength, You might not hit your perfect EC, but you won't burn them going over.

As far as PH goes, you can even cheat that meter, Get a cheap $5 home ph test strip kit. Determine exactly what your ph is out of the tap. (Mine is 7.9) experiment with a bottle of ph down by adding three drops to a gallon of tap water. See if that brings it down to range. (ph is different for different mediums, I use 5.8-6.0 as a target point in my situation. My fully aerated room temperature 50 gallon reservoir requires one cap of acid to go from 7.9 to 5.9. When you determine exactly how much acid (ph down) you need per gallon, you will always be able to ph your tap water with knowledge.
I will be more considerate about my watering / ph and Ec (will buy) for the next run !

Essential equipment. Without them, it's all guesswork.

Happy growing.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

17,190
438
giving nutrients every watering is NOT a mistake, not being aware of your EC is. If you are unable to ph or determine what Exactly makes up whatever ppm you have(which you don't know either) is your mistake friend.


That is a safe default if you are unable to know your ph and ppm/ec

exactly Backward. You should NOT water until there is runoff....ever. That is not the reason you had problems, my guess is your real issue was heat/ventilation/air movement, but your likely issue was guessing with the Nute bottle.

Here's a suggestion for someone who does not have access to meters, carefully follow the instructions on the bottle -25%. So if it calls for 1tp per gallon. default to a carefully measured 3/4 tp per gallon. And water every time with that strength, You might not hit your perfect EC, but you won't burn them going over.

As far as PH goes, you can even cheat that meter, Get a cheap $5 home ph test strip kit. Determine exactly what your ph is out of the tap. (Mine is 7.9) experiment with a bottle of ph down by adding three drops to a gallon of tap water. See if that brings it down to range. (ph is different for different mediums, I use 5.8-6.0 as a target point in my situation. My fully aerated room temperature 50 gallon reservoir requires one cap of acid to go from 7.9 to 5.9. When you determine exactly how much acid (ph down) you need per gallon, you will always be able to ph your tap water with knowledge.


Essential equipment. Without them, it's all guesswork.

Happy growing.


How do you check the ec and ph of the runoff out there isn’t any?

Many reasons for good runoff. 15% is recommended in every greenhouse guide when fertigating. Helps clean out excess nutrients and waste matter. Also needed if using tap water with higher ppm’s. Helps dissolve the excess calcium buildup.


reason I asked you for pics (and your red hps video doesn’t show plant health very well) is to see if your advice has merit.
 
Dub_City405

Dub_City405

919
143
Just give them 5.8 ph water by itself for 7 days. Give it a half gallon every day or every other day depends on how fast they drink.
 
Effendi

Effendi

112
43
How do you check the ec and ph of the runoff out there isn’t any?

you don't. If you know what ec/ph your putting in, it's not a mystery what comes out.
Many reasons for good runoff. 15% is recommended in every greenhouse guide when fertigating. Helps clean out excess nutrients and waste matter. Also needed if using tap water with higher ppm’s. Helps dissolve the excess calcium buildup.
OK. excess calcium buildup? how would you think you have excess calcium buildup if you don't even know what calcium is being put in?
If you don't know your calcium ppm out of the tap and you don't know how to determine ppm of supplemented calcium, how the hell can you determine there even exists a calcium buildup? In all fairness, you are actually probably 100% correct as the default is usually "just add 6ml of Cal mag" do that enough and you probably would have a excess calcium buildup.

Good conversation.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

17,190
438
you don't. If you know what ec/ph your putting in, it's not a mystery what comes out.

OK. excess calcium buildup? how would you think you have excess calcium buildup if you don't even know what calcium is being put in?
If you don't know your calcium ppm out of the tap and you don't know how to determine ppm of supplemented calcium, how the hell can you determine there even exists a calcium buildup? In all fairness, you are actually probably 100% correct as the default is usually "just add 6ml of Cal mag" do that enough and you probably would have a excess calcium buildup.

Good conversation.

of course I know what’s in my water. That’s the first test that should be done before growing anything.

how do you know what was used by the plants and what is excess if you don’t test runoff. And how do you know if the ph is drifting? What you put in is only half the information needed.

You just guess I guess.
 
Effendi

Effendi

112
43
Just give them 5.8 ph water by itself for 7 days.
yes maybe....

Give it a half gallon every day or every other day depends on how fast they drink.
no....yes. Goddamit, I'm amazed on how some of you guys stumble backwards into truth...

Yes very safe to give them your determined ph water the next couple of cycles. No, Never water on a time line, always water by weight. If it's lite, water. If it's heavy don't.
 
Effendi

Effendi

112
43
of course I know what’s in my water.
This isn't about you, it's about HIM.
That’s the first test that should be done before growing anything.
right.
how do you know what was used by the plants and what is excess if you don’t test runoff.
Because if you rely on testing runoff for factual EC, it is 100% likely that you will get a misreading for a variety of reasons I would be happy to lay out if your really interested. Standard operating procedure is to initiate a "fix" protocol that usually does fuck it up.

And how do you know if the ph is drifting?
Because science my friend. Ph naturally drifts, we absolutely count on it. In fact I feed ec in accordance of knowing exactly my drift over a 72 hour period. as you know, different elements uptake at different ph, if you don't have drift you'll miss something.

For a loose example, Maganese, iron, boron copper and zinc tend to uptake between 4.5 and 6.0 ish. Whereas Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, Sulphur, calcium and magnesium uptake starting around 6.0 to 8.0.

That's why 6.0 is a pretty safe spot for most mediums. Some will vary higher or lower. If your tap water is going in at 7.9 like mine, and I used it (like this grower did) I would be unable to uptake any needed trace elements like Maganese, iron, boron copper and zinc .

What you put in is only half the information needed.
My bad, I already get accused of writing books, And yesterday you said 50% of my information was wrong. hmmm
You just guess I guess.
I would guess.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

17,190
438
This isn't about you, it's about HIM.

right.

Because if you rely on testing runoff for factual EC, it is 100% likely that you will get a misreading for a variety of reasons I would be happy to lay out if your really interested. Standard operating procedure is to initiate a "fix" protocol that usually does fuck it up.


Because science my friend. Ph naturally drifts, we absolutely count on it. In fact I feed ec in accordance of knowing exactly my drift over a 72 hour period. as you know, different elements uptake at different ph, if you don't have drift you'll miss something.

For a loose example, Maganese, iron, boron copper and zinc tend to uptake between 4.5 and 6.0 ish. Whereas Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, Sulphur, calcium and magnesium uptake starting around 6.0 to 8.0.

That's why 6.0 is a pretty safe spot for most mediums. Some will vary higher or lower. If your tap water is going in at 7.9 like mine, and I used it (like this grower did) I would be unable to uptake any needed trace elements like Maganese, iron, boron copper and zinc .


My bad, I already get accused of writing books, And yesterday you said 50% of my information was wrong. hmmm

I would guess.


you dont rely on one runoff test. Runoff testing is done each time to monitor trends. If you do this you can see ph or ec rising before it is a problem.

Oh and most tap water won’t change the ph at all regardless of the water ph. Not enough acid or alkalinity in water. My well water is 8.0 but only 150ppm mineral content so it needs no adjustment. And with a medium amount of pure blend pro added it comes out in the mid 6’s.

But when I see the ph start coming out in runoff lower than 6 I know I am building up excess nutrients in the medium.

Guessing like you do is not good advice. Sorry.
 
Effendi

Effendi

112
43
Guessing like you do is not good advice. Sorry.
Very good Michigan. I'm really glad you have this all determined.

I apologize for what you determine to be poor advice.

I'm very happy I was able to post it in order for others who want to learn how to grow can do so.

Happy Growing.
 

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