Oldchucky said:

Wouldn’t have to worry about knocking anybody up! I guess that explains why seedless watermelon is so difficult and unpredictable to grow! Lol there are a lot of triploid fruits and vegetables in use nowadays! They can’t be very unpredictable! A quick Google search will turn up a shit load! It sure isn’t anything new! But it is pretty rare to occur naturally! And like you said the only way to know for sure is through lab testing when you think something might be triploid naturally!View attachment 2498282View attachment 2498283

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You're absolutely right that fields and fields of watermelons and tons of other plants are grown as triploids all over the world. But as you say, those crops have been cultivated for decades or longer (maybe centuries) depending on the specific plant we are discussing. Like I said in my OP, every banana you've ever eaten is a Triploid.

Marijuana, on the other hand, hasn't enjoyed the same time to become a stable Triploid platform. If you think about it, Humboldt just released these seeds this year. So I am part of the first batch of growers to get these seeds as soon as Humboldt has determined them to be stable enough to turn a profit. That's way lower than any scientific standard.

I am beta testing these seeds! If I were someone great at growing like say @Captspaulding these seeds would still fail more often than normal, but he likely would see little, if any, actual difference in growing difficulty.

Me, I'm still kind of new to growing, but have shown real promise in growing giant plants. I am trying to grow the biggest plant I've ever grown, and it's not really a stable platform. The difficulty level for me is real.

Yeah, I'm pushing the plants, but that didn't cause the 3rd plant to grow 40 feet of roots from 1 strand of root fiber and ONLY 1 strand of root fiber. When the second seed never formed a viable fan leaf, that was too early for me to even start pushing it. Clearly another genetic mutation. And then there is Humboldt itself. They replaced two defective seeds with 3 new seeds, and asked barely any questions. Maybe it's just good customer service, but it seems more likely that they know there is gonna be a high failure rate.

KG1 said:

looking at it they really oversold this strain... Where's the ploidy?

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Just for the record, the only adult plant was grown outdoors, and not mine. I can't speak to it at all.

However, the picture above labeled Kaylee 25.07.23, you can clearly see the well developed proto-buds all over it. That picture is 6 weeks, and 1 day since popping its head above ground, and those buds had started forming 3 weeks earlier (week 2 veg). It had a mutation in its root formation, and couldn't grow more than a foot tall. But the dozen or so tiny branches and that had formed were essentially one bud from the coco to the cola.
I

There was the ploidy in my best attempt so far.

It was sacrificed on August 9, and looked much more impressive from the buds, but only stood two inches taller.

Ploidy in plants is big subject, would hope for mutations like bigger leaves, roots etc. Some cross back to normal diploid plants and then a new lineage to buy.

Their advertising seems great if your growing watermelons or bananas of which still I see tiny black seed in although totally unviable I believe. Not so much a hemp or mj grower.

I guess the jury is still out maybe one day some breeding might translate back to our diploids but still invigorated to buy any triploids.

Only one way to find out! Grow one! Until then, it’s only lip service! you might be pleasantly surprised! I was with some aspects of it!

KG1 said:

Ploidy in plants is big subject, would hope for mutations like bigger leaves, roots etc. Some cross back to normal diploid plants and then a new lineage to buy.

Their advertising seems great if your growing watermelons or bananas of which still I see tiny black seed in although totally unviable I believe. Not so much a hemp or mj grower.

I guess the jury is still out maybe one day some breeding might translate back to our diploids but still invigorated to buy any triploids.

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I've watched weed evolve from the shitty moldy brick weed of the 70's to the hybridized kind bud available today. Triploids are probably a wave of the future. But if this plant ultimately ends up delivering around 12 ounces, it wouldn't be any bigger than the diploid plants I've grown. Which wouldn't make the premium price worth it in the end. Ten years down to road, it might be an explosion in plant size overall. Time will tell.

So far it is green, healthy, and has two set of fan leaves. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Oldchucky said:

Only one way to find out! Grow one! Until then, it’s only lip service! you might be pleasantly surprised! I was with some aspects of it!

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Amen, brother. One way one another, success or failure, this grow will ultimately be the review that ends up on Humboldt's site!

Nobody.Special said:

I've watched weed evolve from the shitty moldy brick weed of the 70's to the hybridized kind bud available today. Triploids are probably a wave of the future. But if this plant ultimately ends up delivering around 12 ounces, it wouldn't be any bigger than the diploid plants I've grown. Which wouldn't make the premium price worth it in the end. Ten years down to road, it might be an explosion in plant size overall. Time will tell.

So far it is green, healthy, and has two set of fan leaves. I'm cautiously optimistic.

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I had the same bud as now in the 70s and 80s, still selling same strains as back then too. Just depends how it was grown and some 80s strains still wipe the floor with all modern stuff. I've seen no actual improvement in strength just more stronger strains and well we had the whole auto flower seed revolution but apart from that nothing has really changed just everyone is better and most is now indoors grown.

I hope all the best for ploidy strains although I feel it's more marketing than something new but time will tell certainly interesting seeing one as I wouldn't pay those prices just yet.

Since they are sterile, one thing it does is keeps your genetics from getting ripped off! And if there ever is a big demand, it forces the people that want it to come to you for their supply! Puts you in the drivers seat! I don’t know many seed producers that don’t like that idea! Lol! When it comes to spreading it around, it is definitely clone only! And it makes the possibility of protecting your genetics with patents not seem so far out anymore!

Oldchucky said:

Since they are sterile, one thing it does is keeps your genetics from getting ripped off! And if there ever is a big demand, it forces the people that want it to come to you for their supply! Puts you in the drivers seat! I don’t know many seed producers that don’t like that idea! Lol! When it comes to spreading it around, it is definitely clone only! And it makes the possibility of protecting your genetics with patents not seem so far out anymore!

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My understanding of ploidy is that this strain would be an intermediate one and with a few tetraploids and some breeding produce a stable diploid strain.

It's not fully sterile just reduced sterility.

Feel like only half the story hopefully not being negative just have doubts as to there being a geneticist involved at any point in these strains or at any seed companies and least of all here lol

They are 99% sterile! And Humboldt seed company who sells them kind of explains it all if you want to check out their site! They are nothing more than a cross, between a diploid and a tetraploid! But you have to create the tetraploid using chemicals! Specifically colchicine which is derived from certain plants! And evidently it’s pretty toxic. And has several medicinal uses!

Yeah, you could pollinate a triploid bud and possibly get a couple of seeds by chance but it’s not anywhere near like a diploid bud! They are considered to be sterile for all practical purposes! This stuff is all easily googleable. It’s not new science! Somebody’s just finally using it on pot plants!

Someday this might be a practice that can be used in the home kind of like colloidal silver is used to induce hermaphrodism! Until enough loadies poison themselves with it! I saw a few of the benefits, but they weren’t jaw dropping! I thought it was more potent! It flowered two or three weeks earlier than the diploids! It had a more robust stalk and branch development! But other than that, there wasn’t much difference! But there’s not a King‘s ransom difference in the price either! And it grew easy enough! I don’t know what the OP‘s problem is with it! And the site says it is recommended to grow them outdoors! So there must be some kind of inherent drawback to growing them indoors! But there are a lot of inherent drawbacks of growing regular pot indoors! And you don’t have to worry about the idiot pollen, chucker next-door, ruining your crop! Which can be a problem living in housing tracts. Oh well! Enough on this subject! It’s a free country! Everyone can think what they want!

The genetics and science have previously shown cannabis is resistant to ploidy.

I feel this has shown that to be true but we get to take sterility out of it as a consolation.

Still pretty cool

Oldchucky said:

Since they are sterile, one thing it does is keeps your genetics from getting ripped off! And if there ever is a big demand, it forces the people that want it to come to you for their supply! Puts you in the drivers seat! I don’t know many seed producers that don’t like that idea! Lol! When it comes to spreading it around, it is definitely clone only! And it makes the possibility of protecting your genetics with patents not seem so far out anymore!

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I like your comment in the sense that you ain't wrong. But I don't really like the idea of patents and plant genetics. It's fine I guess with triploids because they are "exotic" but with a plant that can breed, it's a terrible thing for growers especially open air large scale growers, where third party crops can be claimed patent owners pollen spreading via the wind.

Monsanto makes a killing doing it.

KG1 said:

I had the same bud as now in the 70s and 80s, still selling same strains as back then too. Just depends how it was grown and some 80s strains still wipe the floor with all modern stuff. I've seen no actual improvement in strength just more stronger strains and well we had the whole auto flower seed revolution but apart from that nothing has really changed just everyone is better and most is now indoors grown.

I hope all the best for ploidy strains although I feel it's more marketing than something new but time will tell certainly interesting seeing one as I wouldn't pay those prices just yet.

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Well, you would have been hard pressed to find 30%+ strains of weed in the 70's and 80's. There has been a significant increase in at least potential THC levels from the hybridization of the plant. The problem is that if anybody wants to chase the numbers that seed sellers publish on their site, then it has to be grown indoors, in hydro, and with an elevated CO2 level. Because they do.

Photosynthesis got its start when Earth had lots of volcanic activity. The CO2 levels were way higher then. It's the single biggest limiting factor that growers face. You can give your plant 100% light, 100% nutrients, and 100% water, but only 30% CO2, then the plant can only actually use 30% of the light, 30% of the nutrients, and 30% of the water. Each component of photosynthesis is self limiting to the plant.

It's why the whole Triploid thing is supposed to be a thing in the first place. But I think that it probably says a lot about how effective it actually is, that European seed sellers have spent the past 30 years focused on improving yields and potencies by hybridization rather that triploidization. Expensive, temperamental seeds. If there is a benefit to be had, it is years, and thousands (maybe millions) of dollars of investment down the road.

Still, though, I want to see if I can actually get a bigger yield. With a 12 oz plant, it costs me about $17/oz to grow it electric and nutes. If I can get a pound, it would be closer to $15. I would pay the premium seed price for that.

(For the record, she's doing fine, but the second set of fan leaves I thought was gonna come out hasn't. Temps have dropped into the 60's here so...)

Nobody.Special said:

Well, you would have been hard pressed to find 30%+ strains of weed in the 70's and 80's. There has been a significant increase in at least potential THC levels from the hybridization of the plant. The problem is that if anybody wants to chase the numbers that seed sellers publish on their site, then it has to be grown indoors, in hydro, and with an elevated CO2 level. Because they do.

Photosynthesis got its start when Earth had lots of volcanic activity. The CO2 levels were way higher then. It's the single biggest limiting factor that growers face. You can give your plant 100% light, 100% nutrients, and 100% water, but only 30% CO2, then the plant can only actually use 30% of the light, 30% of the nutrients, and 30% of the water. Each component of photosynthesis is self limiting to the plant.

It's why the whole Triploid thing is supposed to be a thing in the first place. But I think that it probably says a lot about how effective it actually is, that European seed sellers have spent the past 30 years focused on improving yields and potencies by hybridization rather that triploidization. Expensive, temperamental seeds. If there is a benefit to be had, it is years, and thousands (maybe millions) of dollars of investment down the road.

Still, though, I want to see if I can actually get a bigger yield. With a 12 oz plant, it costs me about $17/oz to grow it electric and nutes. If I can get a pound, it would be closer to $15. I would pay the premium seed price for that.

(For the record, she's doing fine, but the second set of fan leaves I thought was gonna come out hasn't. Temps have dropped into the 60's here so...)

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Here's the thing I've found with THC percentages, I have mainly indica strains that run 20 +/- percent. I have a hybrid that runs 30 +/- percent that I use for edibles and rarely smoke as the 20%'ers do the job just fine and I prefer their taste and flavor. I honestly don't see/feel any difference between the strains and how high I get so I'm good with the standard 18-20% strains.

Also something I read yesterday is that flowers on the same plant do not have the exact same THC percent and can fluctuate 4-5%. Mind blower. Has any grower noticed this in their own plants? I sure haven't as I'm pretty sure my standard 18% plants will do the job if my lower flowers are only 15%. They still get me high just the same as a top bud at 18-20% does OR just as high as that 30% strain.

We all want more THC percentage in our weed but will it really get us higher? Maybe, but so far I'm real good with my old school weed strains and have been for decades

I just purchased a 10pk of 1/2 gram pre rolls. It's indica leaning strains are sensistar x wedding cake. It claims 35.36% THC. So i compared it too the last indoor grow i did and rolled 2 joints of mine, RS11xOkie. First i smoked the pre roll waited 1/2hr walked outside sat for awhile with just a very slight mellow feeling. Then i smoked 1/2 gram joint of my homegrown and just after 3 " inhailed" and hold for 5sec. I put it down and walked outside again. That's when i felt it and sat stared at my garden for over a hr. I did the same thing the next evening with the same effect from the store bought full doobie meh, maybe 2 prerolls would compare to 3-4puffs off my own. I do not believe the 35.36% they claim on the box. It cost $20 for 10 1/2gram prerolls.

Nobody.Special said:

Well, you would have been hard pressed to find 30%+ strains of weed in the 70's and 80's. There has been a significant increase in at least potential THC levels from the hybridization of the plant. The problem is that if anybody wants to chase the numbers that seed sellers publish on their site, then it has to be grown indoors, in hydro, and with an elevated CO2 level. Because they do.

Photosynthesis got its start when Earth had lots of volcanic activity. The CO2 levels were way higher then. It's the single biggest limiting factor that growers face. You can give your plant 100% light, 100% nutrients, and 100% water, but only 30% CO2, then the plant can only actually use 30% of the light, 30% of the nutrients, and 30% of the water. Each component of photosynthesis is self limiting to the plant.

It's why the whole Triploid thing is supposed to be a thing in the first place. But I think that it probably says a lot about how effective it actually is, that European seed sellers have spent the past 30 years focused on improving yields and potencies by hybridization rather that triploidization. Expensive, temperamental seeds. If there is a benefit to be had, it is years, and thousands (maybe millions) of dollars of investment down the road.

Still, though, I want to see if I can actually get a bigger yield. With a 12 oz plant, it costs me about $17/oz to grow it electric and nutes. If I can get a pound, it would be closer to $15. I would pay the premium seed price for that.

(For the record, she's doing fine, but the second set of fan leaves I thought was gonna come out hasn't. Temps have dropped into the 60's here so...)

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No I watched the whole hype on strains strength and your living in the back end of that. We had 30%+ back then, sensi skunk and the original Afghan still push these numbers today. I mean there were loads back then that now still hit 30s. What we didn't have was massive marketing hype and a load of ridiculous names and flavours.

One day breeders claimed far too much % THC and we all shot them down. We bred old strains that tested the same as new and proved the ceiling was already reached. Obviously back then if you grew bad you got bricks, if you were large outdoors and didn't place much care into it again a brick, but indoors top growers hit your numbers way back either you know it your lost in the hype.

Secondly photosynthesis started 3.8 billion years ago given it take and didn't require co2.

Ploidy has had vast focus from weed and hemp breeders over the years, just found it added nothing, no strength or size etc. Any proof it does anything like larger stomata or bigger leaves because in no search have I seen anything from ploidy but sterility which seems to be the case here and now that I've looked everywhere. It's not going to require big bucks and pharma again I'm sure we see their results now and again seems another dead end.

But studies and genetics have shown hemp and mj resist any change from ploidy, it's in their evolutionary genetic strategy unlike a tomato that will end up a potato or some watermelon we can increase yield with. Mj just sat there millions of years refusing to change and that's pretty common in plant genetics.

I guess I've seen one thing but people are saying another without much proof to the fact.

Someone mentioned that high THC strains were not seemingly as high as lower strains, this probably due to the lack of synergetic chemicals that the high strains always seem to be low on leading to others reporting higher highs with lower strains.

I don't know what more to say, just not one for hype and people who think strength has actually increased when back then we had exactly the same strengths of THC. But this is the industry that sells blurple 100w lights as the equivalent to a 600w hps, even lied on figures for top specs when tested. Real scummy and will say anything for a quick buck or something brief popularity.

PlumberSoCal2 said:

Here's the thing I've found with THC percentages, I have mainly indica strains that run 20 +/- percent. I have a hybrid that runs 30 +/- percent that I use for edibles and rarely smoke as the 20%'ers do the job just fine and I prefer their taste and flavor. I honestly don't see/feel any difference between the strains and how high I get so I'm good with the standard 18-20% strains.

Also something I read yesterday is that flowers on the same plant do not have the exact same THC percent and can fluctuate 4-5%. Mind blower. Has any grower noticed this in their own plants? I sure haven't as I'm pretty sure my standard 18% plants will do the job if my lower flowers are only 15%. They still get me high just the same as a top bud at 18-20% does OR just as high as that 30% strain.

We all want more THC percentage in our weed but will it really get us higher? Maybe, but so far I'm real good with my old school weed strains and have been for decades

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I turn most of my plants into edibles, and only keep a little for smoking. flu destroyed my lungs, and smoking actually hurts, but those yummy terpenes gotta be tried!

I think that a lot of the difference in what you say is from ~20% weed being smoked, and 30% weed in edibles is that the THC is an intoxicant, but there is kind of a diminishing return on more and bigger doses. Everybody who smokes has smoked themselves into a coma at least once, so yeah one can keep getting higher from smoking, but it ends up being a waste a lot of the time.

When edibles get decarboxylated, most of the plant's terpene profile is left as a greasy smear on the lid of whatever was used for the decarboxylation process. It's one of the major reasons that people say that edibles aren't as potent as smoking. While the edibles get you high, the secondary effects are nearly non-existent since those are primarily caused by the terpenes rather than the THC. It's harder to knock yourself out with edibles due to their slow uptake, and loss of terpenes, so the increased potency in the edibles make a lot more sense.

As for the lower THC in different parts of the plant, I'm sure all of my plants end up suffering this problem at least a little. The last plant (a pineapple OG) that I harvested was grown in a 3x3x5.5 tent. With a 5 gallon hydro bucket (15") and the light, fan, and ductwork (10") I really only have 3' of usable growing height in there. In order to get 10.5oz off the plant, I had to let it grow closer than 18" from the lights. Otherwise, I would have lost 43" of vertical space. The main COLA of the plant was brown and dried out by the time it was harvested, but 10" down the plant it was bright green with thick nugs. The seed sheets I can find on Pineapple OG say that it runs anywhere from 18-25%, I assume the top of the plant is closer to the 18% from the light burn (and went into the edible pile) and the bright green being somewhere north of there.

This plant (Kendra the OG Triploid) is in a tent with nearly double the interior space, and two lights that can be set on either side of the colas on angles to keep the light burn to a minimum while making sure each side of the plant has plenty of light. Hopefully that will help me address the light burn problems of the smaller tent.

KG1 said:

No I watched the whole hype on strains strength and your living in the back end of that. We had 30%+ back then, sensi skunk and the original Afghan still push these numbers today. I mean there were loads back then that now still hit 30s. What we didn't have was massive marketing hype and a load of ridiculous names and flavours.

One day breeders claimed far too much % THC and we all shot them down. We bred old strains that tested the same as new and proved the ceiling was already reached. Obviously back then if you grew bad you got bricks, if you were large outdoors and didn't place much care into it again a brick, but indoors top growers hit your numbers way back either you know it your lost in the hype.

Secondly photosynthesis started 3.8 billion years ago given it take and didn't require co2.

Ploidy has had vast focus from weed and hemp breeders over the years, just found it added nothing, no strength or size etc. Any proof it does anything like larger stomata or bigger leaves because in no search have I seen anything from ploidy but sterility which seems to be the case here and now that I've looked everywhere. It's not going to require big bucks and pharma again I'm sure we see their results now and again seems another dead end.

But studies and genetics have shown hemp and mj resist any change from ploidy, it's in their evolutionary genetic strategy unlike a tomato that will end up a potato or some watermelon we can increase yield with. Mj just sat there millions of years refusing to change and that's pretty common in plant genetics.

I guess I've seen one thing but people are saying another without much proof to the fact.

Someone mentioned that high THC strains were not seemingly as high as lower strains, this probably due to the lack of synergetic chemicals that the high strains always seem to be low on leading to others reporting higher highs with lower strains.

I don't know what more to say, just not one for hype and people who think strength has actually increased when back then we had exactly the same strengths of THC. But this is the industry that sells blurple 100w lights as the equivalent to a 600w hps, even lied on figures for top specs when tested. Real scummy and will say anything for a quick buck or something brief popularity.

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First of all, where in the hell were you getting weed laboratory tested in 1970's America? It didn't happen. No competent lab would have risked their license to test it for you. You didn't have 30% weed. You didn't walk it into a lab and hand that weed over for testing. And that lab didn't give you a results sheet. Not in America.

And for the record BOTH the pro and con sides of the ploidy revolution are saying a lot of things without much proof. I certainly can't find your citations and sources. And given the above facts, you ain't remembering history exactly right.

And yes, you are right. When photosynthesis got its actual start in SIMPLE organisms it didn't require CO2. I figured we could just talk about complex organisms and photosynthesis as it affects growers today, which would be relevant to our discussion. But you are right, so credit where it's due.

You say that people have spent decades trying the Triploid thing. Where and when. The "super weed" as described in the weed growers manual from the 60's painted with colchicine, and needing to be grown for several generations before being safe to smoke, was the earliest mention of the triploids I've ever found. It doesn't have to be the earliest, just the earliest I am aware of. It was complicated, and potentially lethal if the recipe wasn't followed properly.

On top of that, anybody back then growing a large crop was growing it for sale, not study and testing. The ONLY agency in America capable of growing and providing weed for study was the National Institute of Health. And the policy (since the Tax Stamp Act of 1915 or whatever) had been to ONLY release weed for study if the purpose of that study was to prove the negative effects of marijuana, not the potency of those sweet sticky buds. Given the fact that growing a field of weed could mean decades in prison, growers grew it for sale, NOT to set the record straight via scientific study with proper controls and standards.

In the 1970's the reservations were the best place in America to grow weed. However, the reservations didn't grow anywhere near enough weed to cover America. 80% of the country got Mexican brick weed that smelled of diesel fuel from being carried in fuel tanks, covered in mold, and loaded with seeds. If you were lucky enough to grow up close enough to a reservation to get decent weed, good on you. But don't pretend for a second that that was what was normal in America.

As far as Afghan weed in the 70's being 30%. NOPE! Not even close. I guarantee that the Afghani's don't bother lab testing their weed before exporting it. And the stoners paying $85 for an 1/8 in 1978 weren't then paying $300 for laboratory analysis that wasn't available.

I agree with you that the marketing hype is ridiculous. But declaring triploids a failure simply because a couple of companies gave turning a profit on them a shot, is silly. There was NEVER some large scale push for triploids in marijuana. MAYBE a couple of European companies tried them before giving up, but that is me taking your word for it. I can't name any company except Humboldt that has them, and I'm too lazy to chase the rabbit hole. However, seedless grapes have been around for over 150 years. Seedless oranges for 200. Seedless figs for more than 11,000. Anybody that thinks everything went well from the first seed is a fool.

Even if some European company gave them a 5-10 year try before giving up, that is meaningless. IF there is a benefit to be had from triploids, it hasn't been investigated fully. That's just a fact.