Obama to sign landmark health care reform bill at White House ceremony

[sanvanalona]

Just so you understand I dont have time to watch TV (wife,kid, and I run my own business,ohh yeah my garden)what little TV I do watch is usally spike TV... Rush on AM talk radio is a big fat loser... What you dont understand is yes this country is much better than most but IMO I feel we are frogs in hot water being boiled a little at a time. If thats not your opinion thats ok just dont go saying I dont have a clue of whats going on. I know you think the Gov helps us out so much and they create all the business. My philosphy is let the people have the money and spend it how "WE" want I bet if people werent taxed so much they might actually have cash to send there kid to college without looking to the gov for help or maybe I could help a family member in need instead of telling them to go sign up for gov aid... If you one of those people who believe they need the gov to show them how to live and what to do and where to go then go ahead and be a sheep.

In a perfect world that would be great, leaving the people to be so responsible. Too bad reality is much different, imo.

 

[Dr.stickerdick]

Well said LordDankinstien, way to go SoB. Less govt. in my daily life and the better I am.

 

[sedate]

Just so you understand I dont have time to watch TV (wife,kid, and I run my own business,ohh yeah my garden

Okay - if you think a 'government takeover' is what was just signed by President Obama today - then you are misinformed. Period. This isn't about semantics, its about definition.

You are making statements that indicate that you get your news from Fox or AM radio - or the AM radio inspired right-wing web sites like Drudge or DailyCaller or some site like that.

Eitherway, since you have children, one cannot imagine you doing anything else but supporting the bill since - you already knew this I suppose - kids now can't be turned down for coverage because of some condition. How about you? You grow for anyone that is - you know - sick?

This is civil rights man, straight up.

I know you think the Gov helps us out so much and they create all the business

What kind of extreme nonsense is this?

Glenn Beckian nonsensical tarring - believing that government is not inherently evil isn't the same as believing in a Soviet-style command economy. The two are not even close to the same in conception, definition, or initmation, and to imply otherwise belies what you deny: you get your news from Fox or AM radio.

I think the government has to tell business the ways they can and cannot behave. Left to their own devices, business isn't very nice and causes all sorts of problems.

My philosphy is let the people have the money and spend it how "WE" want I bet if people werent taxed so much they might actually have cash to send there kid to college without looking to the gov for help or maybe I could help a family member in need instead of telling them to go sign up for gov aid

This is laughable. College costs - if you go cheap - something on the order of $15,000 a year. Or much more. The idea that some marginal tax rate decrease will magically make this amount of money show up every year in the hands of people who are experiencing increases in the cost-of-living year over year over year while the average wage remains flat at some $51,000/family?

Where does that math work for you?

"If my taxes were slashed, I could spend the 35% of my income directly on college"

What? Because college is the only expensive thing a family has to buy? What was the average cost for a private insurance policy for a family of four? Twelve-thousand some? Each year?

So college for one kid + private insurance for one year =$27,000/year.

In a country where the average income per family is still 50K. How's that math working out for ya?

Nevermind the legitimate government interest in promoting a well educated and competetive workforce.

The government should be promoting higher education.

Its not a handout, its good long-term macroeconomic policy.

If you one of those people who believe they need the gov to show them how to live and what to do and where to go then go ahead and be a sheep.

Being a sheep?

Believing the government, properly applied, can be a force for good, isn't being a sheep, its being sensible. Having a measure of historical perspective when one evaluates politics and political developments.

Well said LordDankinstien, way to go SoB. Less govt. in my daily life and the better I am.

Careful what you wish for.

I don't have to know you stickerdick, to know that you wouldn't have made it this far without food safety standards, water safety standards, childrens' vaccinations, the fire department, or paved roads.

Really. Government is everywhere all the time doing good and facilitating your life.

Just - you know - look.

 

[smoke1sun]

Now the feds control your healthcare they can tell you what medicine to take, bye-bye medical marijuana.

You think you have a choice now?

 

[SoB]

Thats right, it was your party that refused to see that there was a problem (Remember McCain saying the economy was sound as the walls were coming down? Even Bush didn't have a clue accouding to his press comments. It was another Katrina..)

The republicans can try to package it and rewrite history (Faux News, demonization of Clinton, putting the Bushes on pedistals dispite their pandering to corps and debt, calling the dems the big spenders when clinton whittled the debt down to almost nothing while Bush put us back in the shitter..).But the educated public is just not that gullible..

And the whole grass roots tea party movement that people buy into.. Its paid for by Rupert Murdock you *insert warm fuzzy*! Its a deep pocket corperate movement paid for by the likes of Mr Murdock and since he ownes/manages fox news, they follow suit! And people are getting their fill on the shit they are shoveling.. And since most people think they know alot and actually know very little, they buy it hook, line, and sinker by using basic psycology. (You know that whole, "We will not be fooled anymore, we know the trth! and We are going to raise up and take this country back" B.S. and on a side note what are we taking back? Did the republicans forget that we voted BO into the presidency? Like he was appointed by satan himself the destroy our country, lololol...)

Sorry brother I am not a Tea Party member and I dont watch Fox news or MSNBC. I am an American and I fourm my own opinions and I am smart enough to now when I am being screwed.
The dems favorite saying "just quoting right wing talking points" is left wing crap for I dont know what to say so I better just say somthing degrading that encompasses all republicans you guys need a new line.
As for Bush putting us in the shitter I am guessing you dont like the war on terror. The sad thing is most of you Dems voted for a guy that said he was going to end the war and he flat out lied to you. The billions being spent on the war are still being spent only now its Obummers mess. Obummer did inherit many problems but they are his now and he will have to own up to them. No more Bush blame game Obummer new exactaly what he was getting into he could of said no thanks.
Like I said before the only good thing Obummer has done is seald the fate of Dems in 2012.

SoB

 

[Lost]

Wow I dont remember getting the most dangerous recession in history is over memo must be a dem thing. I can tell you this I still know alot of people without jobs. I guess I shouldent forget that this new HC bill will employ another 12000 IRS workers HA thats good new. Just for your info heres a litle list of the good things that the new HC bill will do for you.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)

Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees ANDtheir families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.


Sorry for the copy past but time is money in a republicans world. I am OK with 37th if that keeps the Gov. out of my health care.
I am wide awake brother

Your right, no copy and paste talking points there. Thats all str8 off the top of your head because your a free thinker! :)

 

[SoB]

Sorry didn't have the time or desire to look up all of these but ivrtuall everyone i did look up was totally opposite of what you posted. A couple of examples are :

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: From what i can tell this part sets the maximum anual deductible. This is not rationing.

Page 42 of HC Bill: This talks about the guys who administers the Exchange and that he will set the MINIMUM coverage that each plan will follow NOT THE MAXIMUM COVERAGE of a plan. This is not rationing


I'm not going to go over each one of your wrong conclusions because i don't want anyone to take my word on anything in this law. Everyone should look it up for themselves. Don't listen to email chain letters (as the above list comes from) , pundits, and especially not internet posters such as myself or the others.

Sorry brother I assumed that people would realize that the bill has changed from the time this list was made to now. You see the Dems have added more crap so the bill grew substantially. You will have better luck if you look for sections. Like
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
Sec 1308 is now located on page 704
Good luck.

 

[SoB]

Your right, no copy and paste talking points there. Thats all str8 off the top of your head because your a free thinker! :)

Sorry you must of missed the last sentence.

Sorry for the copy past but time is money in a republicans world. I am OK with 37th if that keeps the Gov. out of my health care.
I am wide awake brother

 

[Lost]

If republicans are supposed to be the "fiscal conservatives" then why for the last 16 years that republicans held presidency (non consecutive), why has the deficit gone up? And during this same time Carter and Clinton lowered the deficit during their time.. It sounds to me like the dems know what they are doing and the repubs are talking thru the side of their mouths, while giving handjobs to their Corperate buddies... Could just be me tho... ;)


Edit: I just want to clarify. The last 16 years that there has been a republican president. So 16 years of republican rule and every year the deficit increased.

Is this the do as I say not as I do motto that the repubs adhere to? I mean it works for Sarah Palin right?

 

[Lost]

Sorry you must of missed the last sentence.

Nope, I didn't miss it at all :D

 

[Lost]

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
Sec 1308 is now located on page 704
Good luck.

How do you even come up with logic like that? Can you explain it because the way I see it, insurance plans will cover marriage and family therapy (which they do NOW, HULLO??), and that will be part of the program.

So you goto a counciler for marital problems and the government plan your on covers the visits (like most current insurance), how the fuck is the government inserting itself in your marriage and how the fuck do you explain your logic there? Its paying for it, not forcing you into forced counciling you dont want, or any cracked out idea. If I took a government Stafford loan to goto college did it government itself into my college life/career? Nope. Did they make any stipulation on me governmentally? Nope..

 

[SoB]

If republicans are supposed to be the "fiscal conservatives" then why for the last 16 years that republicans held presidency (non consecutive), why has the deficit gone up? And during this same time Carter and Clinton lowered the deficit during their time.. It sounds to me like the dems know what they are doing and the repubs are talking thru the side of their mouths, while giving handjobs to their Corperate buddies... Could just be me tho... ;)


Edit: I just want to clarify. The last 16 years that there has been a republican president. So 16 years of republican rule and every year the deficit increased.

Is this the do as I say not as I do motto that the repubs adhere to? I mean it works for Sarah Palin right?

Because Republicans fight wars when needed. How many years have we been at war out of the 16 years you are talking about? And this is most definatly figured into the deficit.
I dont know anything about corperate handjobs but I would not turn one down from Sarah Palin.

 

[Lost]

Sounds like a waste of money and young men to me.

Remember, Afganistan is the war on terror. The Iraq war is Bush's war... No WMD's.. Lies to get us there and for Bushie to get his war.. Congrats you got it, how many died to get your approval ratings Bushie??

 

[SoB]

Sounds like a waste of money and young men to me.

Remember, Afganistan is the war on terror. The Iraq war is Bush's war... No WMD's.. Lies to get us there and for Bushie to get his war.. Congrats you got it, how many died to get your approval ratings Bushie??

If you belive Iraq played no part in the training of terrorists and the harboring of them you truly are lost brother. WMD's or not Saddam needed to go and the world is a better place without him.

In all fairness Bush is no more of a lier then Obama.

 

[Lost]

WMD's or not Saddam needed to go and the world is a better place without him.

No disagreement there but I can disagree about how it was done and the economic and human impact. We could have gone in with NATO. Tons o options other than what we did.

 

[sedate]

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Do you know what a government does when it wants to insert itself into marriage?

It assigns partners based on political connections (Khmer Rouge, Myanmar) or promotes strangish eugenics theories when selecting a mate (Nazi Germany) or it makes homosexual relations an offense punishable by imprinsonment (modern Sudan).

What does the US do?

Force private insurance plans to pay for marriage counseling? When the citizen utilizing these services picks the counselor and marriage provider? And is free to leave or disengage at any point? With the spouse/partner of their choice?

This isn't onerous government interference in the bedroom.

Furthermore - lets examine the externalities of divorce?

Wrecked homes. Distressed childhood development touching critical areas of education and emotional development. Backruptcy, ruined credit ratings, and foreclosure.

Sounds sensible to me.

If you belive Iraq played no part in the training of terrorists and the harboring of them you truly are lost brother. WMD's or not Saddam needed to go and the world is a better place without him.

Crazy talk.

Saddam, however you view his rather poor human rights record where the Kurdish minorites are concerned (and the entire fucking region has crapped on those poor nationless people) certainly kept a lid on all that terrorist shit.

He kept a lid on Shitte extremism, he kept a lid on Iranian ambition, he kept a lid on Wahhabism and had absolutely no use for al-Qaeda.

He did drop some chemical weapons on his own citizens in the early 1990's. By American standards, certainly a dictator we could work with.

Make no mistake, had Saddam been a little friendlier to American business, he'd be in power today.

 

[sanvanalona]

SOB,
I really disagree with your logic. The republicans are lovers of war, and that has deteriorated our power internationally and domestically. Internationally, by fighting wars unilaterally and creating a plethora of enemies in the process. Domestically, the republican wars have caused a loss in the meaning of war, as we fight over ideas and not anything tangible creating a never ending war that inevitably decreases in momentum.
Lost,
The more I read your take on politics the more I like you my friend....keep on keeping on!

 

[mal]

time will tell

Bush was republican only by name. he expanded the govt., expanded spending, and didn't veto 1 spending bill, he also increased the natl. debt. Obama is taking his lead and running with it. how does insuring 30 million more not cost anything?


mal

 

[SoB]

Originally Posted by SoB
If you belive Iraq played no part in the training of terrorists and the harboring of them you truly are lost brother. WMD's or not Saddam needed to go and the world is a better place without him.
Crazy talk.

Originally Posted by sedate Saddam, however you view his rather poor human rights record where the Kurdish minorites are concerned (and the entire fucking region has crapped on those poor nationless people) certainly kept a lid on all that terrorist shit.

He kept a lid on Shitte extremism, he kept a lid on Iranian ambition, he kept a lid on Wahhabism and had absolutely no use for al-Qaeda.

He did drop some chemical weapons on his own citizens in the early 1990's. By American standards, certainly a dictator we could work with.

Make no mistake, had Saddam been a little friendlier to American business, he'd be in power today.

[/QUOTE]
HA "rather poor human rights record" Those are rather friendly words to describe one of the worlds greatest mass murderers dont you think? Look it up.

"Certainly kept a lid on all that terrorist shit" Sounds like an admission that he was harboring terrorists. Guess he wont be doing that anymore.

"He did drop some chemical weapons on his own citizens in the early 1990's" Fairly nonchalant statement about someone mass murdering his own people dont you think? Dont forget about the beheadings at your local soccer field or the rape rooms him and his sons visited nightly.

"Make no mistake, had Saddam been a little friendlier to American business, he'd be in power today". Only if a Dem was in office because you can see what a Republican did to him.

 

[sanvanalona]

Didn't Bush 1 leave Iraq with Saddam still in power? One must also ask why Americans feel it is their duty to interfere in other nations sovereignty? There are many leaders in the world who openly violate human rights, shit look at China, it does not justify America going to war with them though. If you remember, when Saddam bombed the kurds (those who you claim are his own people, thats another discussion altogether though) he was and remained for a number of years our ally. Another more important point, Bush 2 went after the wrong person with Saddam under false pretenses sold to the American people. Bush 2 let Osama run around the world while he went after personal ambitions.