OceanSolution, anybody ever hear or use this?

[Joe Fresh]

anyone ever use this product or hear of it? any reviews? anything to say about it?

OceanSolution

 

[Joe Fresh]

i notice that in none of their fertilizers do they have ANY phosphorous...but i was watching a youtube vid from a guy im subbed to, and he went to a farm in florida and they were using only this, in hydro and soil, nothing else...

if your not subbed to john's channel, then i suggest you do so...he is the only guy i know to have his home raided by cops for growing veggies in his bathroom, lol

 

[Seamaiden]

Cool stuff, will check it out in a bit. :)

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh! I read their ads and such in Acres. It's another company selling sea solids/minerals that have a greatly reduced level of NaCl. I use Sea-90, currently, and really like it.

 

[Coir]

I would read the label closely where they show what the product is derived from. While the front page says "OMRI listed for organic production" only one of the products on that page is actually OMRI approved. Sodium Nitrate and Potassium Chloride(two of their main ingredients in all the other products) are not allowed in organic production and are cheap/lower quality sources of N and K. You could easily make this stuff on your own for considerably less money.

 

[Seamaiden]

Uh... isn't potassium chloride another term for potash? Potash is indeed approved by the NOP. As I'm guessing you may already know, OMRI is not an approving or certifying body, they simply list products, etc, that have already been certified according to NOP and state standards as being organic. If it occurs naturally and can be mined, it's likely approved by the NOP for organic production.

I probably could make my own sea minerals for cheaper, but I'm far from the ocean and getting that NaCl out is problematic.

It's OMRI listed because it's already approved for organic production according to NOP standards. There's nothing wrong with this product IMO.

 

[Coir]

It's the form of potash. While Potassium Sulfate is approved, potassium chloride is not. The people that make up the regulations are about as qualified as the WSLCB is for making the recreational rules but the rules are the rules!
Sodium Nitrate is definitely not allowed either. Basically, any man made substance is out while natural occurring substances like potassium sulfate and magnesium sulfate are fine.
One of their products does not contain the nitrate and chloride and that one is ok for organic production. The others would not be listed for use though. While they don't specifically say that all of their products are omri listed, the wording of their ad does infer it.

 

[Coir]

I stand corrected! It now appears that OMRI has decided that these two can be used if under 20% of the fertilizer input and used in a manner that does not allow sodium or chloride build up in the soil. It seems they are adding more and more to the list as time goes by which is a good thing. Unfortunately, a lot of the certifying agencies are still not following all of OMRI's recommendations.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, it's the form of potash (KCl) that's approved, but it's available in said approved forms, including almost pure mined product. Just like humic acids derived from leonardite are a mined product approved for organic production, just like SRT is a mined product approved for organic production, etc, etc, etc.

They *are* OMRI listed because they're approved for organic production. They provide all the paperwork to show this.

Here:
Approved for organic production in the state of California.

You don't understand that OMRI isn't the important agency here, the National Organic Production board and, in my case, the CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers) are the agencies to be looking to for what's Kosher and what isn't. OMRI simply compiles a list, they do not approve and they are not involved in approval standards and certification. We should not be concerning ourselves with what OMRI has to say, we should be paying attention, truthfully, to iFOAM (the International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements: http://www.ifoam.org/ ).

The National Organic Program board, along with direction and rulings by agencies such as the USDA and FDA, is the agency responsible for setting organic production standards and rules.

 

[Coir]

I do understand that OMRI is not the agency approving or denying products. I have my WSDA organic certification for specific crops. WSDA is quite a bit more refined in what they do and do not allow for use with their certification. They actually have their own testing/certification for approved products which many OMRI listed items do not meet their tougher standards. My biggest problem with all of the agencies is that there is little consistency between them and even more so between the individuals in charge of the agencies.
I was told by a certifying agent at one time that "it was up to her to decide on how the NOP rules would be interpreted and applies to my specific situation". Basically she was saying that she had all the power to decide how I needed to run my farm to meet her specific standards on how she interprets the rules presented to her. Once we went through all of the forms, she concluded that growing hydroponic produce should fall under the specific rules for raising livestock rather than vegetable production. Seriously, I thought she was kidding but she was not. Needless to say, she no longer works for the certifying agency but I had to deal with this person for 2 years.
I am about to withdraw from the WSDA organic program after too many years of dealing with compete incompetence. I have had new inspectors for each of the last 3 years and was their very first inspection for 2 of them. The best one yet was when the inspector called me and wanted to come out that morning right in the middle of the busiest time of year at the farm. It's around a 4-5 hour process and I can't just stop and take half a day off with no notice. The next words out of his mouth was "be sure you have all your financial records available because I want to be sure you're not ripping us off". He actually used those words. They base my yearly fee on gross sales and he assumed that I was somehow lying and cheating them out of money! When we finally did go through the inspection, he spent 3 hours going over my books and never even bothered to go into the greenhouse to look at the crop. His only concern was that I was paying the correct fee. It is this type of behavior that has me not wanting to continue with "certified" organic production.

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh nice, sounds like a great agent... shit, agency to work with!

I believe all certifying bodies use your gross sales on which to base certification fee structures, at least that's how it is here in California.

You're not the only one who feels that way, but there's a HUGE market demand for non-GM/organic foodstuffs. So how do producers adequately meet that demand without going through certification? Here in California you can state that you've used organic methods, but you have to be very careful in how you've worded it, and then forget about using that for labeling. Pretty much restricted to using a CSA for your outlet, or farmstand, and if you're on a small dead-end road like I am that's just not a viable business plan.

I apologize for going off about OMRI, but everyone I talk to thinks OMRI makes the decisions and sets the standards, very, VERY few really grasp what organic production truly means (in a legal/production context). But, the consumer's gotta start somewhere.

In the meantime, have you ever used sea minerals like Sea-90? I was astonished that it stopped all BER on my toms and peppers, without additional Ca and without changing irrigation.

 

[Coir]

My initial reason for becoming certified organic was that the uneducated masses were convinced anything but "organic" was toxic. Of course, this didn't get them to make a lifestyle change and give up all the things that were really bad for them but it did create a huge demand for anything labeled organic. What I find comical is that the majority of people believe that anything certified organic will be free of all pesticide residues since they think that no pesticides can be used in organic farming. While the products that are allowed for use are much better for the environment and have a shorter phytotoxic period, they can and are being used in organic production.
Even before I was certified, I had always used biological control over chemical and the only change I made to my fertilizer program was the removal of CaNo3. I had the end product tested before and after and there is no difference as far as nutritional content or chemical residue. Taste, which has always been my main focus, remained unchanged as well. I think that if people would become more educated on how plants actually utilize nutrients as well as getting to know the practices of the people producing their food, they would realize that the labels and certifications mean very little.
As far as OMRI is concerned, while they have no input on creating or regulating the rules, most certifying agencies want to see at least their approval on inputs. Washington department of ag is much more strict and while they will accept some of the OMRI's approved products without question, they really push that you use all WSDA approved products. What's interesting is that they(WSDA) make a huge part of their revenue from their testing of products and so they push for you to demand your suppliers to seek their approval for things that they have not yet tested.
I was using two products for several years that were NOP approved(still are) and had the WSDA stamp on them as well. The manufacturer decided to not renew their WSDA approval and I received a letter and phone call from WSDA telling me that I could no longer use their product as of that day! So, it was good enough to use for years but the minute the WSDA approval expired, it was no longer acceptable. Needless to say it left me in a very bad position as I had to immediately source a new product that had gone through their testing and passed. Having jumped through all of their hoops for so many years has left a bad taste in my mouth as to the entire certification process and the blatant money hungry policies of the WSDA as well as the complete lack of integrity on their part when it comes to actually doing what it is they are supposed to be doing. They have proven time and time again that money is their chief concern rather than the assurance that farmers are following the actual standards set forth.

I am in the process of polling my customers to see just how important having the actual certificate is to them. Fortunately, I have been in business for so long and have dealt with the same customers for so many years, it's not really an issue to them anymore. Most have been to the farm and seen how everything is produced and feel comfortable purchasing the products I offer. With the Federal government failing to pass a farm bill for the last 2 years, the cost of certification has increased for me by 300% which leaves me no choice but to pass those costs along to the consumer. At this point, most people are fed up with the government dragging their feet on every issue and would rather see prices remain stable rather than the shiny piece of expensive paper.

 

[Seamaiden]

Folks like you are why I've been nose-deep in Keatings' Transitions op-eds.

Dichotomy or irony? The government subsidizes CAFO/conventional animal feed, but not organic human feed.

 

[Redux]

I posted similar info in a Sea-Crop thread. I think Sea-Crop is a superior product to Ocean Solution for various reasons. Seawater has about 3.3% sodium chloride while Sea-Crop is less than 2% sodium chloride while the trace minerals are concentrated about 25x. Every bit of the organic compounds in seawater are concentrated in Sea-Crop as no carbon is found in the discharge water. The only thing the company discharges back into the ocean is water and sodium chloride. A very minute portion of the traces are lost yet it's insignificant. Sea-Crop is about 20% solids. Most of it is as magnesium chloride hexahydrate otherwise known as magnesium oil. It's the organic compounds that are the key.