Oganic Growing Issues On Two Runs! Please Help!!

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

Ok this may be long so please bear with me. I've been growing organically and have some serious issues.

Growing:
Silver lined grow tents
5 gallon pots
Dr. Earth soil
T-5 and cfl in veg

Nutrients/Amendments
Fish bone meal
Blood meal
Bat guano
Kelp meal
Alfalfa meal
Epsom salt
Dolomite
Azomite
Myco
Grow kashi
Using compost teas for feeds with RO water and calmag+
75 degrees 50% RH

My problems started last grow with the plants not drinking water, very slow growth, leaves dropping down, yellowing of random leaves, purple/red stems, twisting leaves, and abnormal new growth. I came to the conclusion (so I thought) that it was TMV. So I trashed everything and cleaned everything with bleach twice. Different strains show different times, but overall they all are not healthy.
So I started all over new soil, and from seed. Everything looked good at first, but about a month in veg these new seeds started showing similar symptoms. I've done two TMV test both showing negative, which I hear you can have it with a negative test. No bugs I see except springs tails. In organics I realize ph doesn't matter much but still checked and all good. Also saw some chunks missing from leaves but no bugs? Also when the roots don't talk water the soil smell like mildew..
I'm no pro but I have grown without any of these issues with allot less knowledge and being much more careless. Please help this is making me lose my mind and money! lol Here are some pics of the current situation. Thanks

derkaderk · Jul 17, 2015

They Look hungry for phosphorus...didn't see anything that looked like bugs.

I also highly doubt you have TMV...there are a ton of things that will cause varigation besides TMV.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

derkaderk said:
They Look hungry for phosphorus...didn't see anything that looked like bugs.

I also highly doubt you have TMV...there are a ton of things that will cause varigation besides TMV.

Thanks for the info. I've topped dressed with blend of blood meal, steam bone meal, guano, feather, and kelp meal. Also use teas. I would think the steam bone would supply enough phosphorus. I'm going to look more in to it tho. Thanks man

derkaderk · Jul 17, 2015

YaBuddy321 said:
Thanks for the info. I've topped dressed with blend of blood meal, steam bone meal, guano, feather, and kelp meal. Also use teas. I would think the steam bone would supply enough phosphorus.

After looking again, and reading what you are giving them....I suspect too much nitrogen may be causing your symptoms....not lack of phosphorus.

ShroomKing · Jul 17, 2015

I see classic pH issues. My opinion is that your soil pH is shifting low and locking out potassium. This can come from overly wet soil as well.
Best of luck.
Peace

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

derkaderk said:
After looking again, and reading what you are giving them....I suspect too much nitrogen may be causing your symptoms....not lack of phosphorus.

I really wish and hope it's that easy, but Ive given straight water to some and nutes to others and this is the second run from scratch. I'm going to look over the N also. Appreciate the help.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

ShroomKing said:
I see classic pH issues. My opinion is that your soil pH is shifting low and locking out potassium. This can come from overly wet soil as well.
Best of luck.
Peace

Thanks man yea I was worried about ph tested soil water and runoff all came back ok. Also says ph isn't a big issue in organic but maybe they are wrong. Frustrating! Thanks again

derkaderk · Jul 17, 2015

Ph isn't an issue as long as there are buffers in the soil. Or the soil life is heavily populated with bio diversity.

The amendments you are using to top dress need to be broken down into a useable form before your plant can take it up and use it. That is where soil life comes into play....a good presence of fungi, bacteria and nematodes will constantly cycle the nutrients in the soil making them available to the plants....if there is no bio life, there is no conversion, which means there is no usable nutrients for the plants.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

derkaderk said:
Ph isn't an issue as long as there are buffers in the soil. Or the soil life is heavily populated with bio diversity.

The amendments you are using to top dress need to be broken down into a useable form before your plant can take it up and use it. That is where soil life comes into play....a good presence of fungi, bacteria and nematodes will constantly cycle the nutrients in the soil making them available to the plants....if there is no bio life, there is no conversion, which means there is no usable nutrients for the plants.

Thanks bro. What do you think I should do?

ShroomKing · Jul 17, 2015

YaBuddy321 said:
Thanks bro. What do you think I should do?

Look at the advertisement for OGBIOWAR on the bottom of this Web page. It's good stuff.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

ShroomKing said:
Look at the advertisement for OGBIOWAR on the bottom of this Web page. It's good stuff.

Will do thanks!

derkaderk · Jul 17, 2015

I use something called root bloom, but biowar system seems top notch.

I also make lactic acid bacteria, and make em1, em2, em5.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 17, 2015

derkaderk said:
I use something called root bloom, but biowar system seems top notch.

I also make lactic acid bacteria, and make em1, em2, em5.

Wouldn't Myco and compost teas get the micro life and good stuff to come alive and break down to useable forms?

derkaderk · Jul 18, 2015

That would definitely bring in bacteria with the teas, and myco will help with fungus. Just gotta be careful you don't let the tea become anaerobic, or bad smelling.
Nematodes are a little more difficult to just go out and buy, and usually get a bad wrap in the garden world. People mostly associate nematodes as the bad guys, but there are many different nematodes and if in balance they actually are the main workhorse in the soil web.

derkaderk · Jul 18, 2015

The more I think about this....I'm stumped.

How often are you feeding? Do you ever just give plain RO water?

What I'm kinda thinking is that you have an imbalance or over abundance of bacteria from the teas, and if the medium never dries then it will become anaerobic in the medium.

The other option is that you have an abundance of ready to use nutrients already converted, which the the plant then takes up and leads to lockout.

My advice of you aren't already doing this, is to feed with teas once a week, top dress growkashi second water, and plain RO the third....or if you only water/feed 2 times a week, then tea first then top dress growkashi and RO the second. Obviously take into account how much cal mag you want to add, I didn't include it because every plant is different....I'm not sure you need to add any since you've already included it in your amendments....which gives me a thought.....if you have an abundance of magnesium or will cause the plant to uptake more nitrogen, when the nitrogen becomes abundant it locks out boron, potassium, and copper.

Check out this interaction chart. Might help.

SmokeyPipes · Jul 18, 2015

If your using Dr. Earth soil, Than do yourself a favor and pickup their Bud and Bloom Booster instead of all those individual amendments. Maybe also get yourself some high phosphorous bat guano as well.

YaBuddy321 · Jul 18, 2015

derkaderk said:
The more I think about this....I'm stumped.

How often are you feeding? Do you ever just give plain RO water?

What I'm kinda thinking is that you have an imbalance or over abundance of bacteria from the teas, and if the medium never dries then it will become anaerobic in the medium.

The other option is that you have an abundance of ready to use nutrients already converted, which the the plant then takes up and leads to lockout.

My advice of you aren't already doing this, is to feed with teas once a week, top dress growkashi second water, and plain RO the third....or if you only water/feed 2 times a week, then tea first then top dress growkashi and RO the second. Obviously take into account how much cal mag you want to add, I didn't include it because every plant is different....I'm not sure you need to add any since you've already included it in your amendments....which gives me a thought.....if you have an abundance of magnesium or will cause the plant to uptake more nitrogen, when the nitrogen becomes abundant it locks out boron, potassium, and copper.

View attachment 523460

Check out this interaction chart. Might help.

Thanks allot man I appreciate your time. Ya I feel like it's something simple but tricky like an implace somewhere. Hopefully just no type of virus is around and I can figure this out! I also noticed a house plant with the same soil (without amendments) looks bad also, it's some type of hanging plant. Just growing crappy. Also not drinking water fast and it's far away from the babies. So I dunno I tried straight water on one with no great results. I need this soil to come alive! I was giving them teas once a week, but now they take to long to dry out. I think you are right about something somewhere causing lockout. Thank again.

DrFever · Jul 18, 2015

Do you have a compost bin ???.. i do not understand why people need to buy biowar or what ever a simple 40 percent compost 40 percent fresh screened top soil 10 percent grass clippings , 5 percent card board and 5 percent worms water and walk away let it do its thing even have one in flower with no issues

Only thing i do is add fresh grass clippings no ferts no teas only rain water

YaBuddy321 · Jul 18, 2015

DrFever said:
Do you have a compost bin ???.. i do not understand why people need to buy biowar or what ever a simple 40 percent compost 40 percent fresh screened top soil 10 percent grass clippings , 5 percent card board and 5 percent worms water and walk away let it do its thing even have one in flower with no issues

Only thing i do is add fresh grass clippings no ferts no teas only rain water View attachment 523465 View attachment 523466 View attachment 523467

Beautiful! I just bough a compost tumblr 2weeks ago now I'm even more excited about it!

YaBuddy321 · Jul 18, 2015

SmokeyPipes said:
If your using Dr. Earth soil, Than do yourself a favor and pickup their Bud and Bloom Booster instead of all those individual amendments. Maybe also get yourself some high phosphorous bat guano as well.

Thanks man the only thing is I want to stay away from bottled nutes and try and create a living soil, but if this continues I will try the dr earth to a least get something decent.

Oganic Growing Issues On Two Runs! Please Help!!

Oganic Growing Issues On Two Runs! Please Help!!

YaBuddy321

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