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Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

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  • Start date Start date Apr 6, 2013
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Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

ttystikk Apr 6, 2013 381 Replies 55,901 Views
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Am I nuts? Or, does an inside-out tree make sense to you?

  • He's whack! No way will this work.

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Plants can put up with a lot, but this isn't going anywhere.

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • Anything is possible- it could work, right?

    Votes: 25 56.8%
  • I like it, but it's no revolution.

    Votes: 10 22.7%
  • This is the Future of indoor gardening!

    Votes: 11 25.0%

  • Total voters
    44
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ttystikk

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#321
@chazbolin and @Wyckoff You've both mentioned the use of light movers. A light rail won't do vertical, it's not designed for it. The light mover I'm building for my cylinder grow will be there for three main reasons;

1. Eliminate hot spots- no more burned leaves

2. Eliminate leaf shading- this aids penetration

3. Varies the light received by any given part, so that it's always producing at or near max

No. 3 might need a little more explanation; I noticed when running light movers in the past- yes, I have quite a history of building my own gear instead of running what's out there- that most light movers weren't set up to provide good lighting when they were at the opposite end of their travel. I've overcome this, and set up my movers to ensure that plants never spent time in the dark.

In addition, I noticed another phenomenon, that the plants seems to really enjoy getting blasted with light for a short period, followed by a bit of a break- just like my light rotator was providing at the time. I've since done some reading that appears to confirm my hunch, it said several interesting things; one, that plants can stop photosynthesis even in the presence of a July afternoon due to it just being too much light. The long, intense uninterrupted nature of the afternoon Sun's light was degrading products of photosynthesis nearly as fast as the plant was making them! Therefore, giving the plant a momentary break from high intensity light seems to help.

Another, related phenomenon is that of maximum light pressure-this is not a static value. Plants can handle more light pressure right away, then as they build up products of photosynthesis, they need less light. So along with the idea that there is a maximum and minimum light level that's productive, is the idea that the maximum can safely and favorably be exceeded for short periods.

This is the basis of the design of my light movers, both the horizontal varieties off posted with in the past, and the vertical version I'll be using in da can.
 
Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
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chazbolin

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#322
I've got some 8 footers asking me...How far along are you on your vertical mover?
 
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Wyckoff

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#323
a traditional rail style light mover with a pulley will become a vertical light mover.
 
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ttystikk

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#324
chazbolin said:
I've got some 8 footers asking me...How far along are you on your vertical mover?
Click to expand...

Prototyping several ideas. What do you have in mind?
 
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ttystikk

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#325
Wyckoff said:
a traditional rail style light mover with a pulley will become a vertical light mover.
Click to expand...

No it won't. It will lose traction.
 

ttystikk

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#326
ttystikk said:
Prototyping several ideas. What do you have in mind?
Click to expand...

chazbolin said:
I've got some 8 footers asking me...How far along are you on your vertical mover?
Click to expand...

One idea I have involves a turntable and some pulleys. I like this one best conceptually, because of the smooth operation of the system, no jerks at top and bottom as it changes direction.
 
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Wyckoff

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#327
ttystikk said:
No it won't. It will lose traction.
Click to expand...

I was wondering why you were over-complicating it but now I get it.
 
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ttystikk

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#328
Wyckoff said:
I was wondering why you were over-complicating it but now I get it.
Click to expand...

Don't think I didn't try it, either! Right down to tires from my Lego set, bro-

The other thing I don't like about Light Rails is their linear action and constant speed. It's an inappropriate motion for the job of even light distribution. My light rotator did much better. Other than moving a foot or two to cut leaf shading, the only good use for Light Rail is to avoid driving to work, lol.
 
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green bastard

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#329
just checking in...... interesting as always! very intricate!
 

donmekka

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#330
ttystikk said:
No it won't. It will lose traction.
Click to expand...

I am wondering if your mover isn't a chain drive. A chain drive wouldn't slip.
 

ttystikk

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#331
donmekka said:
I am wondering if your mover isn't a chain drive. A chain drive wouldn't slip.
Click to expand...

Guanella Light Rails use wheels, which work fine for their application.

A chain drive would work, but again would have linear motion. I'm liking the direction I'm going now, y'all will see it when I git 'er dun.
 
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donmekka

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#332
Sorry not comprehending what's wrong with linear motion?Just not following you bro please fill me in.
 
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ttystikk

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#333
donmekka said:
Sorry not comprehending what's wrong with linear motion?Just not following you bro please fill me in.
Click to expand...

I'm referring to the timing. The Light Rail moves at a constant speed, which seems ideal until you realize that it has to stop and go back. At that point the ends get a lot less light than the center.
 

sixstring

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#334
Not if your moving more than one light.i use the lr 3.5 in various rpm but when one light moves away another light comes in to take its place.
have you searched light spinners? There's a few out there that will rotate lights in a circle, back and forth.
Are you trying to move a 40-50# magnum X or something because those ain't for moving lol.the lr 5.0 will lift and lower several bare bulbs no problem without slipping.but my lr 3.5 have been moving back and forth for 4 years without a hint or a problem or wear, and one is moving 4 X 600 in 2 dual cool tube so about 50 pounds or more.
 
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ttystikk

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#335
sixstring said:
Not if your moving more than one light.i use the lr 3.5 in various rpm but when one light moves away another light comes in to take its place.
have you searched light spinners? There's a few out there that will rotate lights in a circle, back and forth.
Are you trying to move a 40-50# magnum X or something because those ain't for moving lol.the lr 5.0 will lift and lower several bare bulbs no problem without slipping.but my lr 3.5 have been moving back and forth for 4 years without a hint or a problem or wear, and one is moving 4 X 600 in 2 dual cool tube so about 50 pounds or more.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see some pics of your light movers in action.
 
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sixstring

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#336
ttystikk said:
I'd like to see some pics of your light movers in action.
Click to expand...
theres some pics on page 1 & the second to last page if ya follow the link in my sig,but here a few more.first shot is my veg machine from about 2 years ago,next pic is one of the dual cooltubes in my flower pad,last 2 pics are from one of the build outs I did a few years back.i think between my 3 and the ones I have installed for others its 10 of the 3.5 lr and 2x 5.0 lr in operation and no problems from any cept some missing parts on one unit,but my supplier took care of it right away. I keep thinking my oldest unit is due for a new wheel but it don't slip so fuck it,ill let it ride :)

speaking of pics,you need to toss up some flower pics soon or im gunna assume those plants are plastic :clown:
 
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ttystikk

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#337
Looking sweet, @sixstring !

I built a light rotator out of a mountain bike and junkyard Honda parts, it was a good experience. The thread should still be on the forum around here somewhere...

I'm stuck on the idea of a turntable because I want a sine wave curve to my time vs. position graph, instead of a sawtooth pattern of straight lines. This gives dwell time at the ends of travel, and I want that for more even light distribution.
 
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sixstring

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#338
yeah I just think if you like to tinker one of these motors can be modded to do just about anything you can think up as long as you keep it on the light side.they make em in 4 or 5 dif rpm's and they all have adjustable stop times between 0 and 60 seconds.i think the 5.0 can stop for 2 mins now with the new units.mine go about 3 feet on average and I have em pause for 15 seconds then they go back.but in my room I have lights in all 4 corners as well so the movers just cover the center,extremely well :cool:
 
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chazbolin

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#339
Hey TY how much vertical area do you see needing to light? The reason I ask is that the VPAR housing is 36" and 34" of that is lamp emitting in a 300 degree pattern. As you've already noted the ends will never get as much light as the center so unless there is a compelling reason to raise and lower lights I think you'd be better off hanging one or two of these VPAR lights vertically (they chain together with one on top the other) and perhaps just rotating them slowly by 30 degree in either direction of center. Alot less moving parts if you have to do it at all.

Perhaps just one gear motor, picture a locomotive wheel but spinning slowly in one direction that drives a bunch of these verticals by pushing and pulling them so they move slowly one direction and then reverse direction. Since you're not fighting gravity like a system would that has to raise and lower the entire light one could use a low hp motor to accomplish this. crap now I gotta go build one of these!
 
Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
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ttystikk

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#340
chazbolin said:
Hey TY how much vertical area do you see needing to light?
Click to expand...

At the moment my vertical trellis is made of 4' x 2" mesh field fencing. That makes it four feet high and I cut two lengths 6'3" long, connected them at their ends and made a cylinder. 12.5'/pi = 4' diameter. 12.5' x 4' tall = 50ft².

I'm quite sure my 1kW bulb is lighting it very well, indeed- it's even causing a touch of light burn on some leaves directly across from it. What I want a mover for is to spread that intensity up and down the cylinder so every part of the plant gets it- and conversely to eliminate hot spots.
 
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Thread info

Replies 381
Views 55,901
Started Apr 6, 2013
Latest post Feb 4, 2014
Starter ttystikk
Forum Tree Farming

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