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Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter ttystikk
  • Start date Start date Apr 6, 2013
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Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

ttystikk Apr 6, 2013 381 Replies 55,866 Views
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Am I nuts? Or, does an inside-out tree make sense to you?

  • He's whack! No way will this work.

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Plants can put up with a lot, but this isn't going anywhere.

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • Anything is possible- it could work, right?

    Votes: 25 56.8%
  • I like it, but it's no revolution.

    Votes: 10 22.7%
  • This is the Future of indoor gardening!

    Votes: 11 25.0%

  • Total voters
    44
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ttystikk

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#121
Texas Kid said:
Wazzup will make your head spin with knowledge...
Click to expand...

Yes, he will. I've enjoyed the favor of his advice many times in the past.

Texas Kid said:
Talkin to Wazzup gets expensive though because all you want to do is go buy Gavita's and really get to gettin....lol
Click to expand...

I know, right?! For awhile there, I was seriously dreaming about double ended bulbs... I'd wake up in the middle of saying, 'gavita!' like it was some long lost lover, lol

He's an extremely dangerous man. Don't bring your checkbooks anywhere near him!
 
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ttystikk

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#122
homebrew420 said:
Sorry tty I don't really get it. Why reinvent the wheel? If you can do one and pull down over 2 lb a light then I am all ears. I am not trying to be rude, and I am sure it is coming off that way. Just don't see the point. You ask for a #, 2lb. People can and do make this happen with horizontal set-up. Assuming that is the point of the build.
Also not sure why bother with the reflectors? Anyone who has grow herb knows the light level under the canopy/behind in this case, is not enough to give and additional yeild. For the cost of materials to build a mover would you better served to purchase a 600?
Click to expand...

Hey, brother! Long time no see! Hope all is well with you and yours-

So the basic question of why for me boils down to an engineering exercise; can the job of growing high quality cannabis be done with less inputs? The answer is always, ' yes', the question becomes one of how.

To drill down into the specifics of this approach; first, there is no reflector on the light at all. It moves vertically about 4 feet, up and down a column that is trellised to be full of plant material. I'll place a bit of reflective material at the top and bottom of the cylinder, but that's there to help the bud at the very top and bottom edges get sufficient light.

The bulb is always very close to the trellis, and even closer to buds growing out towards it, hence the need to move the bulb. Moving the bulb also has benefits for reducing light shading. Most approaches utilizing moving lights aim to just spread light around a bit and stop there. By contrast, my strategy is to use one to get the bulb so close- and therefore provide so much light- that it has to keep moving to avoid burning the plants. This is a strategy to maximize the plant usable DLI, beyond that which the plants could take continuously.

If I believed I would only get 2 from one bulb in this setup, I too would be wondering, 'why bother?' However, I'm aiming for three on my first run, and perhaps four once I really learn the ins and outs of this approach.

Isn't the promise of doubling your output per watt and per Sq ft attractive? If this- or any- investigation reveals insights into how to ply our craft better or more efficiently, isn't that worthwhile?

For you, a strain that's 'good enough' really represents a jumping off point in the quest to find or breed something better. That's how I feel, looking at the current state of the art in indoor growing equipment today.
 
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homebrew420

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#123
Just seems like a whole lot of work for a maybe. Why not just dial everything you got and hit the 2lb per. There is is always room for improvement for us all, no doubt. The aproach I find has worked best is do you best become an expert, as best we can, perfect the system in place, tweaking to improve, keeping it simple. I have yer to hit the 2 per, 1.75 about as close as I have gotten. I'll get there though.
Don't get me wrong I wish all the best in what you do man. I hope to be wrong aboit a great many things
 
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ttystikk

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#124
homebrew420 said:
Just seems like a whole lot of work for a maybe. Why not just dial everything you got and hit the 2lb per. There is is always room for improvement for us all, no doubt. The aproach I find has worked best is do you best become an expert, as best we can, perfect the system in place, tweaking to improve, keeping it simple. I have yer to hit the 2 per, 1.75 about as close as I have gotten. I'll get there though.
Don't get me wrong I wish all the best in what you do man. I hope to be wrong aboit a great many things
Click to expand...

LOL Funny that you put it that way. Don't you do a lot of work breeding for a 'maybe?' After all, no cross is ever a sure thing...

I agree with your concern about throwing out a proven system before knowing the new one is better- so I won't. I'm building one of these to prove the concept and to hunt for flaws in product, process or setup. If/when it shows itself to be an improvement, my fellow Farmers will be the first to know!
 
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jfizzle2cmu

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#125
I was thinking of using a vertical scrog like what tty is doing, though I probably wouldn't use a mover bcuz I don't have the resources on hand. But what about stacking 600s or 1000s around the outside as well?
 
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Texas Kid

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#126
Have you ever seen a "Pi wall" or "Octagon hydro"? look at that for some inspiration

http://www.octagonhydroponics.com/ basically a Heath Robison knock off but they have some cool shit and a bad ass stacked light tube

http://www.pi-technics.com/ that PI rack is a machine...I saw one at one of the hydro shows
 
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One Flip

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#127
jfizzle2cmu said:
But what about stacking 600s or 1000s around the outside as well?
Click to expand...

Hah. I was thinking after he perfects this initial design..he can then use his circle light movers to spin a couple around on the outside and set it up like a vert grow.
 
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One Flip

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#128
Texas Kid said:
Wazzup will make your head spin with knowledge...
Click to expand...

I read a few pages of his watts per sqft. My brain was on system overload. Couldn't hang. That is definitely not a 3am read. I'll have to hit that one again at the start of the day!
 
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jfizzle2cmu

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#129
One Flip said:
Hah. I was thinking after he perfects this initial design..he can then use his circle light movers to spin a couple around on the outside and set it up like a vert grow.
Click to expand...
Right?! Wouldn't this give you complete optimal growth when dialed in if u used movers like tty wants to do inside and how u suggest outside?? This is always on my mind, how to use the entire bulb. Using a checkerboard setup w straight movers inbetween plants that are being vertically scrogged around one bulb on a vertical mover seems would be the ultimate way to maximize lights in a tree grow w limits in med grows.
 
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ttystikk

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#130
great ideas here!
 
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One Flip

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#131
If he set up 5 in his room with lights hitting 3 sides. tty could have his pogo light bouncing up and down in the center and then spin the plant around in a circle on an automatic platform. It would look like a friggin circus in there! Couldn't suspend it from the ceiling but with all the moving parts that would be an engineers 9 lt dream set up.. Just thinking about all that work makes me want to take a nap.
 
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ttystikk

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#132
One Flip said:
If he set up 5 in his room with lights hitting 3 sides. tty could have his pogo light bouncing up and down in the center and then spin the plant around in a circle on an automatic platform. It would look like a friggin circus in there! Couldn't suspend it from the ceiling but with all the moving parts that would be an engineers 9 lt dream set up.. Just thinking about all that work makes me want to take a nap.
Click to expand...

You're giving me nightmares.

..with calliope music.. and horses on poles... terrifying
 
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jfizzle2cmu

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#133
Just wish I could devote the time to speed the process up. Working 50 hours a wk welding sucks, especially on the allergies and asthma. Michigan sucks. Too risky to grow bulk w the legislatural raping were taking right now on mmj, and w dispensaries on the brink of extinction, you're just asking to meet the love of your life in a jail cell near you...w/o being careful ;)
 
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ttystikk

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#134
Texas Kid said:
Have you ever seen a "Pi wall" or "Octagon hydro"? look at that for some inspiration

http://www.octagonhydroponics.com/ basically a Heath Robison knock off but they have some cool shit and a bad ass stacked light tube

http://www.pi-technics.com/ that PI rack is a machine...I saw one at one of the hydro shows
Click to expand...

These are cool, and use the same ideas.
 

Wavegem

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#135
One Flip said:
I like the idea of using Wavegems's liquid cooled design..did he ever measure the reduction in light from being water cooled? it would be a good back up if your pogo idea doesn't pan out.. double stacked 6's or 1k's in a 5ft air cooled tube would be dope 2. I remember awhile back you made a compelling argument that air cooled / semi sealed is more efficient than bare / shitload of cooling. Personally.. I like 6's, aaw's & neg pressure.. Although, I find the more time I spend on this site the closer I get to being sucked down the bare bulb massive AC sink hole... I feel like I'm entering a timeless pit in search for total control of a perfect environment that will always be evolving and never completed..I guess that's what keeps everybody coming back :)
Click to expand...

15% is the total loss of lumens. So if you are using glass what's 5 more percent and your bulbs are cool.

Also a properly grown tree is hollow on the inside. Lollipopped so the surface of the tree is all that is working. On my Ewoks I just started harvesting haven't taken pictures yet but I have ZERO larf, every single bud was sellable. You just have to fill the surface area your light is hitting.
 
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ttystikk

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#136
Wavegem said:
15% is the total loss of lumens. So if you are using glass what's 5 more percent and your bulbs are cool.

Also a properly grown tree is hollow on the inside. Lollipopped so the surface of the tree is all that is working. On my Ewoks I just started harvesting haven't taken pictures yet but I have ZERO larf, every single bud was sellable. You just have to fill the surface area your light is hitting.
Click to expand...

This assessment is the same one I made. So, I wondered, 'why not just start the stalk at the edge of the canopy?' This saves an incredible amount of time- theoretically. It remains to be seen how well this pans out IRL.

Let us all remember the words of the inimitable Yogi Berra, "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."

LOL Truer words!
 
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Capulator

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#137
Texas Kid said:
Have you ever seen a "Pi wall" or "Octagon hydro"? look at that for some inspiration

http://www.octagonhydroponics.com/ basically a Heath Robison knock off but they have some cool shit and a bad ass stacked light tube

http://www.pi-technics.com/ that PI rack is a machine...I saw one at one of the hydro shows
Click to expand...

that pi wall is so sick but with 50 plants per section seems a little sketchy.
 
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ttystikk

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#138
Capulator said:
that pi wall is so sick but with 50 plants per section seems a little sketchy.
Click to expand...

YES. Exactly- I do not want to deal with a million little larf monsters. Two is just fine, plus I can start them later.
 

One Flip

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#139
Wavegem said:
15% is the total loss of lumens. So if you are using glass what's 5 more percent and your bulbs are cool.
Click to expand...


Wow! That's nothing. Especially with how many you have in that space. I think you should bring those to market.. Nice work.
 
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Texas Kid

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#140
They are like a collisium setup on steriods but they are weight machines like the rotating gardens are...alot of work trimmin so get that crew lined out
 
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Thread info

Replies 381
Views 55,866
Started Apr 6, 2013
Latest post Feb 4, 2014
Starter ttystikk
Forum Tree Farming

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