Old Dark, New light, purple/red veins and claw...

[Relaxed420]

Just started in coco for the first time AND using the Canna line for the first time as well. Using Canna Coco with 25% perlite. They had been under a 54w t5 and they were getting very cold in my garage at nights. I introduced some master kush plants that were more teens about 2 1/2 weeks ago and they also started to show the signs that it was too cold and phosphorus was locking out. I hung one of my 1k hps in the area and built a make shift tent with panda tarp, this helped out with temps and plants started to recover. I also transplanted around the time they were showing a bit better, they were in 3in RW cubes and I put the cubes directly into my coco mix in 2g bags. My seedlings are a tad pale, so so growth, starting to pick up a bunch over the last few days, but still have that soft pale green look, a few of them have some deformed leaves but overall they are pretty normal otherwise.

The Master Kush have rich very dark green older foilage almost N od looking with a claw and would not give that good stretch for the light like a health plant likes to do and the main stalk has some purple with a nice green like it's supposed to, even tho I really like the purple/red colors I know this is not a good thing. New growth is very pale green not yellow just very light colored starting at inside of leave spreading out. with that deep red/purple in the veins. Leaves are in between papery with an almost brittle feel to them and a nice fuzzy softness to them, overall plant has a crispness to it.

Don't have good pics right now, will take a few and post soon.

Maybe Iron issues?

 

[Relaxed420]

Forgot, tips of only a few leave have any tip burn, looks like I might be on the edge, PPM meter is garbage and I can't afford a good one, but my best guess is PPM's are around 700/800 in week 3 of veg, 1 wk with 54w floro, in 2nd week under 1k hps. Seedlings are getting about 600ppm (same as above only I dilute 1/3) in their 4th week since birth. I am using tap water run through a britta, like I said my meter is POS and while it was functioning it was reading that at 250 ppm, I'm guessing it's getting mostly the clorine but not getting a lot of the cal cause I don't seem to need to add cal/mg.

 

[Relaxed420]

Ok, got a few pics

 

[bonerface]

Are they root bound possibly? I've had similar issues and it was just because they were terribly root bound.

 

[Relaxed420]

Dont think so, they were just transplanted and they were only in 3in cubes, the seedlings would not have the same issue. Thanks for the response though.

 

[Seamaiden]

Get the root zone warmed up, they still look a bit cold to me. Next time, try not to start off with so many firsts at once, too. I can talk to you about growing in coco, but not specifically about the Canna line.

 

[Relaxed420]

Thanks for the advice, I agree, kinda went out of my comfort zone but that was due to some things out of my control and some in my control... LOL I think you might be right as the room has been warming up a bit, but still being close to the cement those roots aren't gonna be as warm as top. I'll try to raise the tray a bit.

 

[Toes]

A cheap heating pad, like the ones you put on a sprained ankle, work good. Some have an auto shut off, could be a pain in the a$$.

I wouldn't raise them up though. too much area underneath the pots. that air under there will get cold.

 

[Seamaiden]

Raise them off the concrete, that will pull warmth from the roots. If you need to supplement heat, make yourself an Electric Blanket Sandwich (self-explanatory, I think) and put that directly under the pots, adjusting the heat so their feets will be nice and warm. They can tolerate much colder air temps if their feets are warm. Then, uptake of nutrients can more easily occur, pH will stay in range (you know what range to feed coco, yes? 5.8-6.2).

EBS is easy and cheap to make, but be sure to use contractor garbage bags, they're sturdiest.

 

[Relaxed420]

A cheap heating pad, like the ones you put on a sprained ankle, work good. Some have an auto shut off, could be a pain in the a$$.

I wouldn't raise them up though. too much area underneath the pots. that air under there will get cold.

Thanks for response, I am only lifting up the trays that were on the cement floor, I have a heat mat that I put underneath the tray and lifted the tray up about an inch. I have a heat mat there just so that the heat mat provides a buffer between the cold cement and the tray and can provide some heat if needed, I'll turn it on if it starts getting too cold again to put some heat in that buffer area.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this, I am figuring that this will help me with my cold roots, I really think that cold roots are a problem just judging from how often I was feeding, they were taking 5-8 days to get even sorta dry and were cold to the touch during that time, they are not cold to the touch any longer, but I had an issue in another garden that was even worse than this due to cold temp and it's making sense that temp has something to do with the girls problems.


Thanks once again to everyone that has responded.

 

[Relaxed420]

I'm using those plastic bags for pots for now, so SM your advice is to put the heat mat between the pots and the tray inside a garbage bag to protect it from the run off? I have one of those large heat mats a friend is letting me use and it is too large for one of my trays but it fits underneath the two pretty nicely. If my idea of a warm air buffer not gonna do it.

BTW I'm using washing machine trays from Lowe's as trays, they are just shy of 3x3's. Home Depot and Lowe's has these and they are a cheep alternative to the hydro trays, $20-40 depending on where you get them, sometimes HD is lower priced and sometimes Lowe's is, but be careful sometimes one of them charges almost as much as a 3x3 hyro tray sometimes.



PS. Yes I try to get PH piss yellow (old school) till I get me a meter, I am used to lower ph with soilless at about 6. Thanks.

 

[Seamaiden]

Put the mat under the tray, heat rises, it *will* warm them up. Since it's a heating mat it should do fine, but since I can't see it I can't say whether or not to put it into a plastic bag. You are correct, the EBS is an electric blanket sandwiched (folded up, then inserted) into a contractor's bag specifically to protect it from run-off and all moisture. Personally, I think that an inch off the floor isn't enough, not for concrete and not if your temps are staying below 60F, give or take a few degrees. Perhaps if you put a sheet of foam insulation under the mat, then mat, then tray into which the pots go, that's how I would do it so as to prevent heat loss into the concrete.

Good tip on the washing machine trays! I went ahead and dropped the $$ on flood tables, some of the best money I've spent.

 

[hiboy]

Also ph and ppm are key. I'ld try to get that tester. Seen them pretty cheap. More bulbs more heat too, not much with the t5's, but it will do a little bit,

 

[Relaxed420]

So here are a few pics of what I was talking about, I have a large heat mat on cement, I put a few bricks around it to put the trays on top of to get them off the cement. ALL the plants have recovered and are starting to green up and most importantly they are starting to drink up. Cold temps seem to have been my issue.

 

[tealeaf402]

is this red veins mostly always due to too low PH or too much acidity without any fluctuation using a higher PH afterward to balance it out?

 

[Jaydee86]

Did you ever get this problem sorted out? I really need to know what causes this dehydrated papery leaves.
And the dark veins too!