Older fan leaves yellowing

[TrichromeFan]

Older fan leaves yellowing prematurely!

Well, I think that I possibly have some sort of deficiency, and I am trying to get it worked out. The problem is the older fan leaves closest to the main stem are yellowing and dying, and now are showing some red coloration during the process. To me it seems like a Nitrogen deficiency. I just find it hard to believe that my nutes are lacking in that department.

The plants are blackberry OG kush, growing in a rdwc system. I am using H&G aqua flakes that I mixed at 830ppm. Added some cal mag plus, up to 950ppm. PH 5.8 H20 Temp 63. Room temp 78. Plants are just past the 3 week mark in flowering.

Thanks,

-TF

 

[crippled1]

I picture of the entire plant would help alot.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Already removed quite a few bad ones, but you get the idea.

 

[deacon1503]

Looks like N to me.

 

[Steve Z]

bookmark this. all of you. i did it ages ago and have been so thankful since.

 

[Seamaiden]

If it's really weird, start checking for pests, especially anything that resembles fungus gnats.

I have bugs in my eyes! Root aphids, little fucks.

 

[OGONLY]

How do you think you got the root aphids Seamaiden? I want to try and make sure I do what I can to make sure I never get them. Hear they are THE worst pest.

 

[Seamaiden]

I honestly have no idea, but this year my husband's veggie garden got the worst case of different aphids I've seen up here, and then all that stuff developed powdery mildew. And this year I'm battling powdery mildew and aphids. That said, for the longest time I thought all I was dealing with were fungus gnats, and it very well may be just fungus gnats (which seem to occur quite naturally up here), but if so, they're the fungus gnats from hell.

 

[TrichromeFan]

No signs of any pests on the leaves or roots.

 

[motherlode]

I honestly have no idea, but this year my husband's veggie garden got the worst case of different aphids I've seen up here, and then all that stuff developed powdery mildew. And this year I'm battling powdery mildew and aphids. That said, for the longest time I thought all I was dealing with were fungus gnats, and it very well may be just fungus gnats (which seem to occur quite naturally up here), but if so, they're the fungus gnats from hell.

THAT right there is why I decided against having a veggie garden of my own

TF
I think you running low ppms after your root issues may have just caught up with you bro

looks to me almost like a cross between N and K def

hopefully youll see some progress with the bump of ppms

and hey Im by far not any kind of rdwc expert but isnt 63 degrees a bit low for water temps?

 

[TrichromeFan]

Motherlode,
I will see how they do for a bit as I keep ramping up the nutes.
I think that 63 is fine. My chiller says 65, my Hanna says 63. I haven't measured the temps in the tubs, but it has to be a couple of degrees warmer if I were to guess. This MPB thing is like a rocket with me hanging on to it for dear life. I will battle it to the finish. That just will give me more lessons learned for future rounds.

-TF:rauch08:

 

[Snowblind]

I believe that you are having an issue with Phosphorus uptake not Nitrogen issues!

 

[TrichromeFan]

This looks like it could be the end

Well,
it looks like the girls are just getting progressively worse still. Whether it is a deficiency of Nitrogen or Phosphorus, or something else, I don't know. I ramped up the nutes, a couple of times, till now they are up to 1200, and they are still in a downward spiral. More leaves dying, day by day. :sick0018:

Also here's a real funny one. The leaves and buds have NO SMELL AT ALL! These plants are at close to 5 weeks, and 3 of them are over 4' tall. :worried

I would like to think that somehow they would bounce back, but I really question how much I'm fooling myself with ideas like that. I think that unless someone here has some ideas that will somehow make sense of this, that will be it. The cost of nutes and electric doesn't balance out with a bunk harvest.

So, unless I have some glimmer of light, I will have to pull their life support.:sad0104:

-TF

 

[Shady]

FUCK!!! Damnit... I wish I knew you were posting up in here TF... I would have been by sooner... :shake

Well, I've been looking at all the picts on both pages in great detail and taking into account your ambient environment, water temps, and PPM's (assuming you are using Hanna's default 0.5 conversion factor to EC)...

First a couple of questions...

1. Are you running CO2 and if so, why is the room temp at 78 and not 85 deg?
2. What is your relative humidity?
3. Do you mix the CalMag into your RO first, and then mix in the rest of your base nutes?
4. Can we get a shot of the roots?

TF
I think you running low ppms after your root issues may have just caught up with you bro

looks to me almost like a cross between N and K def

hopefully youll see some progress with the bump of ppms

and hey Im by far not any kind of rdwc expert but isnt 63 degrees a bit low for water temps?

Before I continue, I've got to say that I would have thought motherlode was right on the money with this post... :thinking

Remember the saying... N, P, K, Up, Down, All Around... Nitrogen for growth in the leaves, Phosphorus for growth in the roots, and Potassium for overall health... Then there's the other key nutrients like Magnesium and Calcium to deal with... I really like Mulder's Chart since I'm a visual person, I'll link a couple diff versions for you:

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1610043
​

​

So here goes... Honestly I'm no expert in RDWC either, and I've only ran DWC, but the water and room temps seem too low and could possibly lock out Phosphorus... Which can lead to a build-up of Potassium... then the chain reaction of events leads to Magnesium, and Calcium, etc... Balance is the key... Also diff strains require diff levels of nutrients and overall PPM's. That being said, indicas, kush, and OG's generally need more Ca and Mg to be in balance with increased levels of P and K... Sativas are generally lower on the overall PPM's in my experience. So the 120 PPM's of CalMag at day 21 is far too low... IMO, it should have been at least 5 ml/gal or approximately 200 PPM at that point or even higher considering the size of your plants and the amount of lumens surrounding them... The plants were probably slowing down in their stretch phase and begun to focus flower development.

The other issue that I noticed in the picts on the first page is that the petioles are curved downwards, but look turgid... This is a clear sign of being overwatered... Since this is DWC, we must consider the osmotic pressure of the roots, and consequently the PPM's of the solution. Furthermore there is the issue of adequate dissolved oxygen and cold water temps which can affect efficient nutrient uptake in hydro...

Now the picts posted on Page two lead me to believe that overall your plants are very hungry as indicated by the dying dry brown leaves in the center of the canopy, and the red petioles on the main shoots/branches... Finally I believe your plants are suffering from moisture stress possibly caused by VPD and/or overwatering... Here are three good links that I've posted plenty of times in my journals and around the Farm:

http://www.invalid.com/marijuana-plant-problems/150004-plant-moisture-stress-symptoms-solutions.html
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http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/07/plantworks-part-1-humidity-and-vapor-pressure-deficit/
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http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354770#Post1354770
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Hope this helps my friend... :cool

 

[TrichromeFan]

Shady,
CO2, yes. RH set at 50%. No, I did not mix cal mag into the RO before the nutes went in. I did it after base nutes. Honestly, I didn't know the importance on that for kushes. Roots look decent to me, when I saw em last. Dark cycle now, I'll wait till after 8 to get a pic of them for you.
As I said, I've been ramping up the nutes over the last 10 days, and no improvement at all. Any thoughts on the no smell at all? That really freaked me out. I think it all traces back to the two shocks that I gave them earlier in their life, by letting them dry out. There's no way that it didn't really fuck the roots. I shoulda pulled the plug after the foam.

 

[Shady]

Well, the RH seems good... I'm assuming there's a nice gentle breeze with all the wall fans. Hmmm, I believe the over watering is somehow being caused by the PPM's and nutrient uptake... I've never used H&G, but here's my reasoning behind adding CalMag before anything else... Many nutrient brands must be created for use with either tap water or RO. So, if you had good tap water, the Calcium and Magnesium would already be in it before you add your base nutes.... So if you start with RO, then add CalMag first, you are essentially creating the perfect tap water, and can easily check the PPM of the resultant mix before you add any base nutrients... :thinking

As for the smells, I'm sure that the last two shocks haven't helped as you suspect... There is still a glimmer of hope, but first thing I would do is to remove all the dead, shriveled leaves... Possibly even drain the system for a fresh mix. You'd be surprised at how much moisture is in the root mass and that the roots could prob benefit by a couple hours of air time...

Also, I can guarantee that you won't fill in your on center spacing at this point, so instead of pulling the plug, I say persist and continue on for the learning experience and possible success... At the same time, you could add a few soil and/or coco plants in the room to begin flowering... Just a thought.

 

[TrichromeFan]

OK, I'll give it one more week. Rez change it is. I just have never had any plants that didn't smell. Unfortunately no other plants big enough to go in the room. I did just start some chem valley kush seeds. They will take some time before they are ready for the big room.

 

[Shady]

Sounds good my friend, there's always the collectives that sell mothers as well as fellow farmers, but I'd hate to see you bring in any pests or PM... BTW, I usually get most of the good aroma's around the beginning of Week 5 in my 10 wk strains. In any event, I'm sending positive vibes and good karma your way... :damnhippie:

 

[TrichromeFan]

Here's a root shot for ya.

Here's a thought. What if root rot resides in the bucket. If your normal routine doesn't include a good top fed soaking with anti-fungal, then it may just be residing in the bucket the whole time. I know that I have poured through the top only once like that. Maybe it has to be part of the regimen daily when you first try to get rid of a rot situation, and for then for upkeep. Dunno, just a random thought.

-TF

 

[Farmer Jon]

It looks like an N def to me for sure. I have noticed with some variates, a veg type solution is needed further along into the flowering phase. (I always stay with veg formula until flower formation is obvious.) Cannabis stores N during veg for use in the flowering phase, in any type of DWC environment the control on the nutrient regiment is exact, capable of going from a perfect mix for the moment to lacking in one or many nutrients needed for that stage in one small change. (cannabis varies it's needs depending on photosynthetic messages, that indoor happen overnight)
This may sound crazy but seeing as you are 5 weeks in and at the shit or get off the pot stage, my suggestion would be a last ditch effort...revert your nutrient schedule to veg and give your plants continuous light for 10 days. This will set you back a bit but i'm thinking it may save your ass. You will get some odd looking flowers i'm sure (hopefully no nanners) and it may take a bit longer for them to finish but plants in the vegetative state are stronger and can overcome problems at a faster rate.
It may be faster to acquire new plants and start from scratch but that won't get you any closer to solving the problem.
(all statements are based on the fact that every other Environmental issue has been addressed)