Organic Nutes With Coco?

[saltwater]

coco is organic so you have to use organic nutes I'm using coco in my current grow go check out my profile for help I'm still in the early stages of my grow(about 5 weeks from cuttings) I'm pretty knowladgeable with coco just ask if needed. use the cannacoco nutes you'll mix there a&b solution witch is a 4-0-1 and a 1-4-2 that you mix into you tap water at 40ml per 10litters(of each solution) then add a cal mag 1ml per L PH must be a solid 5.9 some people say 5.8-6.2 and even 5.5-6.5 but trust me stay at 5.9( always test Ph after all nutes are added and wait 30 mins before testing) always collect atleast 20% runoff don't be afraid to water them girls once a day when over 9-13 inch tall

I grow in coco and I use synthetic and I get pretty good results.

 

[Ecompost]

If we like using humic acids, those have to be mined. If we like using rock dusts, those have to be mined. I'm not sure how else to get around that fact, nor do I know how to get the miners to use different methods.

:)

Do you use synthetic fracturing fluids to extract humates? Who is mining humates? I take mine from compost extraction and worms.
I dont use rock dust, and I only use mined material that has a clear bill of metal health, I doubt much rock dust does, but to each their own, read the label I guess.
We do have mined matter, eg selenium, its mined by my plants and my microbes make it active. In fact, plants mine quite safely and at a massive rate, so acquiring most of the material we might need to grow more plants.

We have matter that has been produced from ecologically sound mines, from local Estonian companies that have a long history of solid restoration and hard labour, not short cut synthetics and blasting. Picks and shovels, small scale production, not something you get in the USA may be? We take only the matter that has not be synthetically processed. There are mines and then there are mines. I think you like most people are splitting hairs with regard defining something with a single word. If you concentrate on any word for long enough, none of them will make sense. Unless you have a serious point to make, or a better suggestion regarding definitions of organic, this is not worth reading is it? did you get up on the wrong side today? :-)

 

[costa]

coco is organic so you have to use organic nutes I'm using coco in my current grow go check out my profile for help I'm still in the early stages of my grow(about 5 weeks from cuttings) I'm pretty knowladgeable with coco just ask if needed. use the cannacoco nutes you'll mix there a&b solution witch is a 4-0-1 and a 1-4-2 that you mix into you tap water at 40ml per 10litters(of each solution) then add a cal mag 1ml per L PH must be a solid 5.9 some people say 5.8-6.2 and even 5.5-6.5 but trust me stay at 5.9( always test Ph after all nutes are added and wait 30 mins before testing) always collect atleast 20% runoff don't be afraid to water them girls once a day when over 9-13 inch tall

Hmm , check your bottles again . Canna Coco A + B both have NPK 5 - 4 - 3 . Cal/mag with these nutes is a bad idea . I use Canna's Mono Cal. and Epsom salt separate . That way I know exactly what ppm of cal. and mag . I'm using . 40 ml pr. 10 L . Wow , that's HOT . Try go on Cannas website . You can make your own 'taylor made ' schedule with all the help you get there . @ Seamaiden ,,, lol cal nympho ,, so true indeed . Since I've started using Mono Cal. my plants are explosive , lol

 

[Ecompost]

Hmm , check your bottles again . Canna Coco A + B both have NPK 5 - 4 - 3 . Cal/mag with these nutes is a bad idea . I use Canna's Mono Cal. and Epsom salt separate . That way I know exactly what ppm of cal. and mag . I'm using . 40 ml pr. 10 L . Wow , that's HOT . Try go on Cannas website . You can make your own 'taylor made ' schedule with all the help you get there . @ Seamaiden ,,, lol cal nympho ,, so true indeed . Since I've started using Mono Cal. my plants are explosive , lol

why dont Canna ever tell you what form there Ca or anything for that matter is? Why are they so secretive? Why wouldn't you use a mono Mg instead of epsom salts? Do you foliar this mono Ca or just drench feed it?

 

[costa]

Very good question . I bought both Mono cal and Mono mag , but , and this is a but I don't understand , when I read the labels , it said that Mono cal and Mono mag can't be used together ???????????? wtf , anyway , I have an 80 kg sack of epsom i've been using for years , so no sweat . Couldn't believe that they are selling two products you can't use together . Didn't like the idea of having to add cal. at one watering , and then add mag the next watering . I took the Mono mag back to the growshop and showed him the label . Made him scratch his head , lol Got my money back and all

 

[costa]

I mix the cal in the feed , and then water them . I start with approx. 100 ppm cal. and 25 ppm epsom in veg . Then I cut the cal down to 80 ppm in flower , sometimes more , sometime less , depends on the strain . I keep mag at the same ppm all the time .

 

[Ecompost]

Very good question . I bought both Mono cal and Mono mag , but , and this is a but I don't understand , when I read the labels , it said that Mono cal and Mono mag can't be used together ???????????? wtf , anyway , I have an 80 kg sack of epsom i've been using for years , so no sweat . Couldn't believe that they are selling two products you can't use together . Didn't like the idea of having to add cal. at one watering , and then add mag the next watering . I took the Mono mag back to the growshop and showed him the label . Made him scratch his head , lol Got my money back and all

yes, that is odd, I might understand not putting Mg in with K but calmag is a common nutrient, I can only assume it is because both contain nitrates, this might overload you with that. I cant see any other reason why you might not otherwise add them. This is why i asked what form of Cal it is, but I rather suspect its CalNit.
I use a chelate form of CaMgO that works well as a late bloom drench. I have the chelates in CaO and MgO as individual inputs which I also use as a drench, but I prefer to add my CalMag with a product called Nano Breathe, since this gives me a well balanced ratio of nano milled CaO and MgO but also adds Fe and more importantly perhaps CO2. Its awesomeness indoors and out for boosting BRIX and overall growth via more capacity to carry light with the CO2 boost

 

[Ecompost]

I mix the cal in the feed , and then water them . I start with approx. 100 ppm cal. and 25 ppm epsom in veg . Then I cut the cal down to 80 ppm in flower , sometimes more , sometime less , depends on the strain . I keep mag at the same ppm all the time .

ok cool. I have been running up to 200ppms CaO with 75ppms MgO with a bit extra CO2 :-)

Oh and here is the updated Crocketts Afternoon Delight, growing in recycled coco and rocks with microbes and protein bio stims. its lierally just had a 5-0-2 input, first time its had anything since birth

 

[dottyStr8Up]

hey whats going on peeps. definitely digging all the info from this thread. definitely informative. I've been thinking about running Roots Organic Uprising 3 part ferts with roots organic potting mix. and i will also be adding organism xl. I've been doing my research and was thinking about doing a drain-to-waste system, feeding daily(hydro soil method). i will be using a 45w LED overhead light with a 10w LED for grow lights. i was wondering if anybody could tell me how this would work, or if anybody has used the 3 part Uprising ferts from Roots Organic, and what sort of results have you seen from your grow???

 

[gonnagro]

I would just like to add, I have never had an organic/coco grow that did not end in a bad case of root rot and leaf drop. :speechless:

 

[costa]

I would just like to add, I have never had an organic/coco grow that did not end in a bad case of root rot and leaf drop. :speechless:

Bad drainage ?????

 

[gonnagro]

It seems like the logical reason, but I do use pretty high end (sanctuary and batch 64) soils.

 

[zoneblazed]

What up my farmers.
I know this thread is semi old but also pretty recent.

I've been searching all over for answers to this one question I'm hoping someone can help with.
I'm running out of soil and have a lot of coco sitting around as well as some neptunes harvest rose and flower (2-6-4 fish/seaweed/molasses/Humic acid and yucca), I also have Alaska fish 5-1-1 for veg and plan to ad about 15 percent EWC to my mix. And perlite.

QUESTION IS: Can I use fish fertilizers in coco successfully Hand watering daily?? Also with fish, should I pH it to 5.8 as o would with chemical nutrients?

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, and yes IF the plants are demanding that much be used on a daily basis, and yes, because coir.

 

[zoneblazed]

Yes, and yes IF the plants are demanding that much be used on a daily basis, and yes, because coir.

Thank you Seamaiden!! I had a feeling you might be the one to answer me. So am I wrong in thinking that the fish has to break down first? Or does it need to break down and does so when little bits of fish get logged between coco chunks?
What do you think about crab shell meal to provide Ca and a buffer for the coco? I want to keep it as organic as possible, but I have some cal mag around in case. Do you see any advantages in my method over simply growing in organic soil? Will I see coco growth rates with organic amendments in the mix?

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you Seamaiden!! I had a feeling you might be the one to answer me. So am I wrong in thinking that the fish has to break down first? Or does it need to break down and does so when little bits of fish get logged between coco chunks?

FE is used as an 'immediately available' plant food, it doesn't need to be broken down to be or become available to the plant. If you have microbes alive and well in the media however, they're going to eat, and they're going to shit, so it's going to be passed through them whether you've planned on it or not. If, however, your medium is not 'alive' it's still not to worry. Just remember that it is indeed quite possible to burn with fish emulsion.

What do you think about crab shell meal to provide Ca and a buffer for the coco? I want to keep it as organic as possible, but I have some cal mag around in case. Do you see any advantages in my method over simply growing in organic soil? Will I see coco growth rates with organic amendments in the mix?

I do not like crab shell meal (or oyster shell) in this application because of the chemistry of the shell itself, a good bit of CaCO3 and it's specifically the CO3 that's a problem. I prefer something like gypsum in a case like this, or a liquid Ca product such as BioLink 6% Ca (which is organic) in combination with Epsom salt (aka MgSO4, and that SO4 is what helps the plant make itself stinky). I like gypsum because it's relatively soluble but does not affect pH, and it's cheap.

Now, if your source water has low to no carbonate hardness, then yes, you may want to buffer but my preferred method is to do it via the feed/water, not the medium. If you buffer the media too high then you're in a bit of a pickle.

If growing indoors, coir is superior to soil IMO because of how quickly things can happen (good or bad). Soil is a slow process that's expensive to do inside, depending on your power rates of course.

Will you see typical growth rates using organic? It depends on how you approach it. If you're going to want to go the microbial route and use products that basically must be passed through the microbe, then it's going to be a little bit slower going than if you're using salt-based fertilizers. But using things like the fish emulsion, liquid guano, liquid seaweed, etc, you'll be able to see things moving along much like classic hydro, again in my opinion. Others may have different experiences and opinions, of course.

 

[zoneblazed]

FE is used as an 'immediately available' plant food, it doesn't need to be broken down to be or become available to the plant. If you have microbes alive and well in the media however, they're going to eat, and they're going to shit, so it's going to be passed through them whether you've planned on it or not. If, however, your medium is not 'alive' it's still not to worry. Just remember that it is indeed quite possible to burn with fish emulsion.

I do not like crab shell meal (or oyster shell) in this application because of the chemistry of the shell itself, a good bit of CaCO3 and it's specifically the CO3 that's a problem. I prefer something like gypsum in a case like this, or a liquid Ca product such as BioLink 6% Ca (which is organic) in combination with Epsom salt (aka MgSO4, and that SO4 is what helps the plant make itself stinky). I like gypsum because it's relatively soluble but does not affect pH, and it's cheap.

Now, if your source water has low to no carbonate hardness, then yes, you may want to buffer but my preferred method is to do it via the feed/water, not the medium. If you buffer the media too high then you're in a bit of a pickle.

If growing indoors, coir is superior to soil IMO because of how quickly things can happen (good or bad). Soil is a slow process that's expensive to do inside, depending on your power rates of course.

Will you see typical growth rates using organic? It depends on how you approach it. If you're going to want to go the microbial route and use products that basically must be passed through the microbe, then it's going to be a little bit slower going than if you're using salt-based fertilizers. But using things like the fish emulsion, liquid guano, liquid seaweed, etc, you'll be able to see things moving along much like classic hydro, again in my opinion. Others may have different experiences and opinions, of course.

Hell yeah. Thank you so much!
I have one previous grow indoors in coir using fox farm 3 part and it blew my mind on a daily basis how fast things were happening.

Ok one more thing. Is fish hydrolysate (like what's in my flowering formula) also immediately available as plant nutrients?

Also what would YOU do: straight coir, or 75/10/15 coir, castings, course perlite?

 

[zoneblazed]

Hell yeah. Thank you so much!
I have one previous grow indoors in coir using fox farm 3 part and it blew my mind on a daily basis how fast things were happening.

Ok one more thing. Is fish hydrolysate (like what's in my flowering of formula) also immediately available as plant nutrients?

Also what would YOU do: straight coir, or 70/15/15 coir, castings, course perlite?

Oh and would things like kelp meal and other "meals" clog up the coirs priceless air pockets?

 

[Seamaiden]

Hell yeah. Thank you so much!
I have one previous grow indoors in coir using fox farm 3 part and it blew my mind on a daily basis how fast things were happening.

Ok one more thing. Is fish hydrolysate (like what's in my flowering formula) also immediately available as plant nutrients?

Also what would YOU do: straight coir, or 75/10/15 coir, castings, course perlite?

Yes, it's pretty much immediately available (thus, the ability to burn with it). No more perlite in my world, I use rice hulls. But honestly, unless your goal is to stretch out the volume of coir, you can skip those things entirely, it's fine as its own medium. I use rice hulls and worm castings in my coir, with a bit of gypsum mixed into it at the beginning to help prevent calcium deficiencies. No more than 25% castings and even that could end up being a lot depending on the qualities of the coir you're working with (fines vs shreddies).

Oh and would things like kelp meal and other "meals" clog up the coirs priceless air pockets?

If you overdo it, yes, I'm sure it can. But I think you'd have to add quite a bit to cause drainage problems.

 

[zoneblazed]

Yes, it's pretty much immediately available (thus, the ability to burn with it). No more perlite in my world, I use rice hulls. But honestly, unless your goal is to stretch out the volume of coir, you can skip those things entirely, it's fine as its own medium. I use rice hulls and worm castings in my coir, with a bit of gypsum mixed into it at the beginning to help prevent calcium deficiencies. No more than 25% castings and even that could end up being a lot depending on the qualities of the coir you're working with (fines vs shreddies).

If you overdo it, yes, I'm sure it can. But I think you'd have to add quite a bit to cause drainage problems.

Thanks a bunch for your input!! And it's good to hear you say that you do slightly amend your coco coir because it's been such a battle in my head. I think wayyy too much.

So I'll probably do 6:1:1 coir, castings, perlite (haven't been able to find rice hills locally). And I'm going to add a cup of kelp and a cup of dr earth home grown 4-6-3 per cubic foot, And some azomite, About half cup. And I'm using Roots Coco Palms. Does this sound good?

The main reason I'm wAnting to amend the coir is so that I won't need to feed until pistils appear. I am running a perpetual SOG with 12 plants so I only veg about two weeks and it's a 10 week strain. I've burnt this strain real easy before so I don't want to fry my roots feeding them too soon, as all the plants will be getting the same concentration of nutrients no matter the age. Dunno if this makes sense, sorry I'm pretty stoned. Haha.