Organics & pH

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Guano

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Soil Biology and pH by Jeff Lowenfels

The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.

Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.

In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.

A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.

If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.

When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.

This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.

So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.

Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.

I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.

So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.
 
JollyGreen

JollyGreen

347
28
Great info you have Guano, thanks for posting it. I'm always reading articles by Jeff Lowenfels and Dr. Elaine Ingham in the growing edge.
 
C

clone2

27
0
than you very good....ph also has to do with drainage....factors afecting,volume,density,type of amendments an there portions...all afecting the drainage...just a drop in the bucket on the subject of ph...not found on the internet...peace c2/
 
C

clone2

27
0
basically it means u can run a higher ph,in a larger volume of soil,same goes with a large bucket full of rockwool cubes,or stacked enough rockwool cubes...peace
 
C

cell

140
0
What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH.

This, this is vital.
 
I

ineffable420

28
0
Here's a pH thread i did at the other place:

pH

Many new growers get into trouble with pH balance in their gardens. Anything that is done to the soil medium effects its' balance. The most important by far is water quality. It is common to have water that is slightly above or below a neutral pH. This is not a bad thing, but one must be careful to know the quality of your water and have an understanding of how to achieve a good balance.

The numbers used to describe pH are not of any specific unit, but are only a commonly recognized description of the far more complicated processes in play.
The pH scale, from 1 to 14 measures acid-to-alkaline balance, 1 is the most acidic, 7 is neutral, and 14 most alkaline.

http://i83.invalid.com/albums/j320/ineffable420/phscale2change.jpg

Cannabis grows best in soil with a pH from 6.5 to 7.0. Within this range Cannabis can absorb and process available nutrients most efficiently.
Nutrient uptake is the process of the roots absorbing the nutrients provided to the plant.
Every full point change in pH signifies a ten-fold increase or decrease in acidity or alkalinity. For example:
soil or water with a pH of 5, is 10 times more acidic than water or soil with a pH of 6. (10¹=10 where ¹ is the point in the pH scale)
Water with a pH of 5 is one hundred times more acidic than water with pH of 7. (10²=100 where ² is for each point on the pH scale)

If the pH is too low (acidic), acid salts chemically bind (tie up) nutrients, and the roots are unable to absorb them through nutrient uptake.
An alkaline soil with a high pH also causes nutrients to become unavailable.

Having the pH too far out of the usable range can cause toxic salt build up that limits water and nutrient intake by roots.
Not all growing systems are the same. There not only are differences between optimum hydroponic pH and soil pH, but also slight differences between nutrient and fertilizer manufacturers.
Hydroponic solutions perform best in a pH range a little lower than soil. The ideal pH range for hydroponics is from 5.8 - 6.8. Some growers run the pH at lower levels and report no problems with nutrient uptake. This is usually due to the manufacturing process used to generate the nutrients and the buffers or chelation elements used. Buffers are compounds that act to resist a change in pH. Chelation act to resist the breakdown of certain nutrient elements that would otherwise react with other elements in the nutrient mix.

The pH of organic soil mixes is very important because it dictates the ability of specific pH-sensitive bacteria to break down organic compounds into forms that the plants can use. Fertilizer does not feed the plants, contrary to common perception. They feed the soil and provide the needed building blocks that the bacteria use to create the nutrients that the plants require.


http://i83.invalid.com/albums/j320/ineffable420/soil_prop_chemistry_pH.jpg

Measure the pH with a soil test kit, litmus paper, or electronic pH tester, all of which are available at most nurseries.
When testing pH, take 2 or 3 samples and follow instructions supplied by the manufacturer "to the letter." Soil test kits measure the soil pH and primary nutrient content by mixing the soil with a chemical solution and comparing that solution to a chart. Every one of these kits I have seen or used is difficult for novice gardeners to achieve accurate measurements. Comparing the color of the soil/chemical mix to the chart is often confusing. If you use one of these kits, make sure to buy one with easy to use directions and ask the sales clerk on recommendations on using it.

Electronic pH testers are economical and convenient. Less expensive pH meters are accurate enough for casual use. More expensive models are quite accurate.
Pay special attention to the soil moisture when taking a pH test with an electronic meter. The meters measure the electrical current between 2 probes and are designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is too dry, the probes do not give an accurate reading. Perpetual (continuous without interruption) pH-metering devices are also available and are most often used to monitor hydroponic nutrient solutions.
For accurate pH test with an electronic pH meter:
-Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
-Pack the soil around the probe.
-Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water before testing.

If using litmus paper, collect good samples of the soil, then place the samples in a clean jar, and moisten the samples with distilled water. Place 2 pieces of litmus paper in the muddy water and wait 10 seconds, then remove 1 of the strips. Wait one minute before removing the other one. Both pieces should register the same color. The litmus paper container should have a pH color chart on the side. Match the color of the litmus paper to the chart to get a pH reading.
Litmus paper will accurately measure the acidity of the substance to within a point. Note that pH readings will not be accurate if altered by water with a high or low pH, and the litmus paper could give a false reading if the fertilizer contains a color tracing agent.

Check the pH of irrigation water. In dry climates, such as the desert, Australia, Arizona, etc., irrigation water is often alkaline with a pH above 6.0. The water in rainy climates is often acidic with a pH below 6.0. After repeated watering, water with pH that is too high or too low will change the chemistry balance of the growing medium, especially in organic or amended soils. Raw-water pH above 6.0 helps keep fertilizer mixes from becoming too acidic. Climate conditions can also affect irrigation water pH. Check the pH at least once a week.

Cannabis will grow in almost any soil, but it flourishes when the pH is between 6.5 and 7.0. Commercial potting soil almost never has a pH above 7.5. A lower pH is more common, even as low as 5.5. Some potting soils purchased at a nursery are pH balanced and near a neutral 7. However, most potting soils have a tendency to be acidic. The easiest way to stabilize soil pH is to mix in 1 cup of Fine Dolomite Lime per cubic foot (28 litres) of potting soil. Mix Dolomite Lime thoroughly into dry soil. Remix the soil in the container after it has been watered.

Fine Dolomite Lime has long been a favourite pH stabilizer for gardens. It is difficult to apply too much as long as it is thoroughly mixed into the soil. Dolomite has a neutral pH of 7, and can never raise the pH above 7. It stabilizes the pH safely.
Compensate for acidic soil by mixing dolomite with soil before planting. Dolomite is a compound of Mg (Magnesium) and Ca (Calcium). Dolomite does not prevent toxic salt build-up caused by impure water and fertilizer build-up. Proper fertilizer and regular leaching (To remove soluble or other constituents from by the action of running water through the medium (soil makeup)) helps flush away toxic salts. When purchasing look for Dolomite Flour, the finest fast-acting dust-like grade available. Coarse Dolomite could take a year or more before it becomes available for uptake by roots. Improperly mixed dolomite will stratify, forming a cake or layer that burns roots and repels water.

Hydrated Lime contains only Ca and no Mg and alters pH quickly. Mix thoroughly with warm water and apply with each watering for fast results. Many growers use a mix of .25 cup hydrated lime and .75 cup dolomite lime. Do not use more than .5 cup hydrated lime per cubic foot of soil or it can toxify the soil from fast release and kill the plants. Hydrated lime is also used as a grow room fungicide; just sprinkle it on the floor and around the room to kill fungus on contact.

Do not use quicklime; it is toxic to plants.
If you find that you have damaged the pH balance of the soil you are growing in it is far better to mix up a fresh batch of soil and transplant rather than trying to compensate after the fact. It is possible, but it's difficult and quite hard on the plants.


Hydroponic pH:

The pH of the nutrient solution controls the availability of ions that Cannabis needs to assimilate. It grows well hydroponically between a pH of 5.5 - 6.5, with 5.8 - 6.0 being ideal. The pH in hydroponic gardens requires a vigilant eye.

Roots take in nutrients at different rates, which cause the ratios of nutrients in the solution to change the pH. When the pH is above 7 or below 5.5, some nutrients are not absorbed as fast as possible. Check the pH every day or 2 to make sure it's at the perfect level.

Deviations in pH levels often affect element solubility. Values change slightly with different plants, grow mediums, and hydroponic systems. Overall, hydroponic gardens require lower pH levels than soil. The best pH range is from 5.5 - 6.5. Different mediums perform best at different pH levels. Follow manufacturer guidelines for pH level, and correct the pH using the manufactures’ suggested chemicals because they will react best with their fertilizer.

The pH can easily fluctuate up and down one full point in hydroponic systems and cause little or no problem with nutrient uptake.

Follow the directions on the container, and remember to mix adjusters into the reservoir slowly and completely; all of it. Fertilizers are normally acidic and lower the pH of the nutrient solution. But nutrient solution is still taken in by plants, and water transpires and evaporates into the air, which causes the pH to climb. Always add your nutrients before you stabilize the pH. Make your corrections slowly. You need to use as little adjustment solution as possible to correct the imbalances.
It is far better to have the pH off a little bit than adjusting too far and having to adjust back. The acids or alkalis that are used to make these adjustments can damage the chelation of the nutrient formulation and cause some of the elements to become unavailable. It takes some time for the adjusting substances to do their job so wait at least an hour, sometimes up to a day to allow the chemistry to happen before you make more adjustments.

Taking the time to properly observe your environment and learning the processes that are taken to create it and make it flourish. Slow and steady wins the race.
 
I

ismokepot

Guest
Therefore, promix pH should be a lower number than that of regular soil- probably closer to hydro pH......
 
hubcap

hubcap

1,189
48
if running straight promix...
pH around 6.0-6.3

soils...6.3-6.5..

and it (promixHP)does get acidic over time as it breaks down..

something to keep in mind.

-hubcap-
 
G

Grover6sixty6

10
1
I'm was given scotts earthgro organic filtered topsoil. Should I use this to grow in? Or should I just use scotts potting soil no additives? First time grower.
 
capegrower

capegrower

75
18
PH
Power of hydrogen=the reciprocal logarithmic value of hydrogen ions
 
Billygoat

Billygoat

1,235
63
Awesome thread,

The info i was just looking for. Thanks for posting everyone. Been having some issue with soil and got the answer i needed.
Thanks,
BG
 
Ohiofarmer

Ohiofarmer

932
93
Here's a pH thread i did at the other place:

pH

Many new growers get into trouble with pH balance in their gardens. Anything that is done to the soil medium effects its' balance. The most important by far is water quality. It is common to have water that is slightly above or below a neutral pH. This is not a bad thing, but one must be careful to know the quality of your water and have an understanding of how to achieve a good balance.

The numbers used to describe pH are not of any specific unit, but are only a commonly recognized description of the far more complicated processes in play.
The pH scale, from 1 to 14 measures acid-to-alkaline balance, 1 is the most acidic, 7 is neutral, and 14 most alkaline.

phscale2change.jpg


Cannabis grows best in soil with a pH from 6.5 to 7.0. Within this range Cannabis can absorb and process available nutrients most efficiently.
Nutrient uptake is the process of the roots absorbing the nutrients provided to the plant.
Every full point change in pH signifies a ten-fold increase or decrease in acidity or alkalinity. For example:
soil or water with a pH of 5, is 10 times more acidic than water or soil with a pH of 6. (10¹=10 where ¹ is the point in the pH scale)
Water with a pH of 5 is one hundred times more acidic than water with pH of 7. (10²=100 where ² is for each point on the pH scale)

If the pH is too low (acidic), acid salts chemically bind (tie up) nutrients, and the roots are unable to absorb them through nutrient uptake.
An alkaline soil with a high pH also causes nutrients to become unavailable.

Having the pH too far out of the usable range can cause toxic salt build up that limits water and nutrient intake by roots.
Not all growing systems are the same. There not only are differences between optimum hydroponic pH and soil pH, but also slight differences between nutrient and fertilizer manufacturers.
Hydroponic solutions perform best in a pH range a little lower than soil. The ideal pH range for hydroponics is from 5.8 - 6.8. Some growers run the pH at lower levels and report no problems with nutrient uptake. This is usually due to the manufacturing process used to generate the nutrients and the buffers or chelation elements used. Buffers are compounds that act to resist a change in pH. Chelation act to resist the breakdown of certain nutrient elements that would otherwise react with other elements in the nutrient mix.

The pH of organic soil mixes is very important because it dictates the ability of specific pH-sensitive bacteria to break down organic compounds into forms that the plants can use. Fertilizer does not feed the plants, contrary to common perception. They feed the soil and provide the needed building blocks that the bacteria use to create the nutrients that the plants require.


soil_prop_chemistry_pH.jpg


Measure the pH with a soil test kit, litmus paper, or electronic pH tester, all of which are available at most nurseries.
When testing pH, take 2 or 3 samples and follow instructions supplied by the manufacturer "to the letter." Soil test kits measure the soil pH and primary nutrient content by mixing the soil with a chemical solution and comparing that solution to a chart. Every one of these kits I have seen or used is difficult for novice gardeners to achieve accurate measurements. Comparing the color of the soil/chemical mix to the chart is often confusing. If you use one of these kits, make sure to buy one with easy to use directions and ask the sales clerk on recommendations on using it.

Electronic pH testers are economical and convenient. Less expensive pH meters are accurate enough for casual use. More expensive models are quite accurate.
Pay special attention to the soil moisture when taking a pH test with an electronic meter. The meters measure the electrical current between 2 probes and are designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is too dry, the probes do not give an accurate reading. Perpetual (continuous without interruption) pH-metering devices are also available and are most often used to monitor hydroponic nutrient solutions.
For accurate pH test with an electronic pH meter:
-Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
-Pack the soil around the probe.
-Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water before testing.

If using litmus paper, collect good samples of the soil, then place the samples in a clean jar, and moisten the samples with distilled water. Place 2 pieces of litmus paper in the muddy water and wait 10 seconds, then remove 1 of the strips. Wait one minute before removing the other one. Both pieces should register the same color. The litmus paper container should have a pH color chart on the side. Match the color of the litmus paper to the chart to get a pH reading.
Litmus paper will accurately measure the acidity of the substance to within a point. Note that pH readings will not be accurate if altered by water with a high or low pH, and the litmus paper could give a false reading if the fertilizer contains a color tracing agent.


It is far better to have the pH off a little bit than adjusting too far and having to adjust back. The acids or alkalis that are used to make these adjustments can damage the the nutrient formulation and cause some of the elements to become unavailable. It takes some time for the adjusting substances t do their job so wait at least an hour, sometimes up to a day to allow the chemistry to happen Taking the time to properly observe your environment and learning the processes that are taken to create it and make it flourish. Slow and steady wins the race.

The only thing i wanted to add is that you should never add ph up or down after mixing the nutes. PH your water to 7 then add nutes, after that it will harm you to try to re-correct the ph, this will lead to undesired effects on your plants, also it would be wise to use all natural fruits to raise and lower ph.........take it easy
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
I miss Guano. I sure would like to know how that old cat is doing.
 
J

jcash

59
8
Ohiofarmer which nat friuts make ph go up and which make it go down? I use viniger-down,limejuice- up
 
N

Ne Obliviscaris

82
8
The only thing i wanted to add is that you should never add ph up or down after mixing the nutes. PH your water to 7 then add nutes, after that it will harm you to try to re-correct the ph, this will lead to undesired effects on your plants


Why is this? Isn't the goal to get your soil to 6.5-7? If you're getting your water there, and then adding nutes--most of which lower ph significantly in my experience--then aren't you going to end up with soil that too acidic?
 
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