Our World

[Vakman]

I think that's a bit of a stretch if we're being logical, frankly. I'm not playing at a thought experiment here--I'm talking about active threats which we can see. Even if I weren't--I'm not speaking on philosophy, I'm talking tangibles. I was also trying to use extremes to lay out this idea of what the spectrum is. It goes from being giant pussies and walking into bullets and bombs and waiting to be nuked at some point, to genocide. Obviously I've ruffled some feathers going that far. Let me clarify what I actually mean--if say there is a future generation of Americans which will be in a war with Iran, and Iran will conquer America and all Americans will burn and die. In that case I'd rather push the button. I don't mean we should murder all of Iran this very moment. I'm saying if given the choice, I know which side I'm going with. What I'm saying is that the extremist culture (and it doesn't have to be Iran, that's a meaningless example--any country where this shit is breeding suffices) is seeking to give us EXACTLY THAT CHOICE. That is their objective, their goal. The utter destruction of America as well as everything and everyone in it. They do not mince words about this.

They haven't minced action either. The movement is not losing, but rather gaining ground. How far, as an American, should I be willing to let it go before I worry about the possibility of an all out all of you die or all of us die moment in history? Do I let you build your forces up now? Or do I squash you like an ant for you arrogance in expecting you have now or will ever have the power to do such a thing?

That's the thing. We have the bigger stick. Do we just sit here and wait around until they find a bigger one and act out their clear plans of committing genocide here in some service to this politically correct bullshit?

If you have a tumor, do you wait until it metastasizes, or do you cut it the fuck out?

I just happen to not look at the world in this touchy feely way where everything is always fuzzy and nice. Sometimes people want to kill people. If they think they've got the juice, I'd like to see them that and raise them $20 while we can. I don't want to wait until the decisions falls to them as to whether or not they want to utterly destroy us.

Now if they played nice and acted like they didn't want to destroy us but secretly they did, alright then I'd be chill with them. However, they've literally said what they want--and to me it's just this incredibly ballsy move. It's like saying okay, I'm in a body cast now--but when I get out I'm going to shoot you with my gun.

How bout I just choke you the fuck out in your wheelchair then? I mean when it comes right down to it, they started this genocide shit--not me. That's what they're after, I haven't even upped the fuckin' ante. I'm just saying, let's not just wait for these guys to get the things the need to actually do the stuff they want to do.

It makes sense to me. I don't expect for it to make sense to you, but I assure you--I am not a crazy person nor am I ever going to murder someone :)

@ fishwhistle -- what I am is a person who believes what he does, and doesn't shy from saying it. What I am is a liberal democrat who believes that war is ugly and while we would rather it weren't necessary--it is the inevitable fate of mankind. What I also am is someone who at least tries to be respectful of other people's opinions (not falsified facts disguised as opinions--there is a huge difference), which is more than I'm able to say for you. Saying I'm crossed with a serial killer? That's a dick move. I'm a realist--I know how much stuff there is on the planet. A finite amount, that's how much. Try and come to a happy medium there and you'll fall short every single time.

Try and fight it as we might, in the end we'll be a bunch of dogs flaying at each other for the last piece of meat there ever was or would be. Then we'll start eating each other--and it'll get weird.

Humans are weak creatures, with vile tendencies. As I've already said I wouldn't actually push a genocide button, I was trying to be figurative--it was not in good taste. Attacking my character for a lapse in judgment isn't going to derail any of what I've said which is factual. Any and all of my opinions have been and always will be subject question and criticism--but facts are facts.

We ultimately got ourselves here because a few people wanted to unseat facts with opinions. That is a huge pet peeve of mine, and so here you find me. I haven't been banned because I keep my comments like these in the proper forums, and I try not to personally attack people--I rather attack their positions.

I have had lapses in this before, for which I have already heartily apologized here--and I've done a good job I'd say since that time of keeping it about my opinion and what I think, and perhaps how that relates to others opinions--rather than about others themselves.

I apologized for that because I realize that I can't toot the logic horn and go around attacking people's character--those two don't go together. They don't go together for you either.

Squiggs, you are undoubtedly an intelligent man, its obvious by the way you speak and piece things together, and i think a lot of what you say has merit. that being said, can you not see this from a different perspective? you are far too smart not to. when most people read the things you say, i feel, that the way you come across is deranged, too direct and extreme. if you changed some of your speaking you would get your message across more efficiently and effectively. people will listen to you more if you can put some things differently. such as, when you compare such extremes as the genocide button a fair amount of readers are automatically turned off by the extremity of your thinking, and seeing you apologize i think you've realized it.

all that aside, i don't think you necessarily are saying that you would completely wipe iran (just an example) off the map. but to convey your message a lil more gently and a little less extreme you will let others know your opinion because they don't tune you out, they can actually listen and respond without having a bias against you automatically.

Keep voicing your opinion. many people don't or can't do it for fear of what others might think or say. discussions like this help me look at different perspectives and ideas. not everyone will learn from this as i have, and thats their loss. you don't need to agree with everything someone says in order to take something from the interaction and learn from it.

till next time.

 

[squiggly]

Noted--that's why I stepped off and tried to re-frame my meaning. I am not a genocidal axe-murderer and I do see things from that other perspective.

I live my entire life in that perspective--but what I'm suggesting is that it is one which is a very western perspective. It doesn't account for everything.

If we promise to always be nice, we are promising to be dead in the future at some point. I only arguing that the stakes are already there, and that we're not acknowledging it. I don't mean that we should always be mean--just that we're going to have to adopt a little mean into our lives if we're going to last as a nation. We can't just be nice our way out of everything.

If you met me you'd realize I'm an incredibly nice and caring individual. I go way out of my way for every person but myself, I'm certainly no racist--and some of my favorite people in the world are from other countries. I don't favor the death of any person--but when deaths must be accounted for , and they must, I'd rather they accrue for the opposing side than for mine.

I just have the balls to say I feel that way instead of pretending that I live in a Disney movie. It is very obvious what this is all going to come down to in the end--and that may be 1000 years from now, but that's still a legacy that we leave. Shit we do now affects then--as an atheist that's really all there is for me, there is only the way things are.

Now if there's some negotiation, some route to take that avoids all of that--then I'm all for it. The longer I live, though, the more I see that the human race is dead set on working against itself rather than together. I didn't write the rules fellas, I'm just playing the game.

 

[baba G]

Quoted from squiggly: "The longer I live, though, the more I see that the human race is dead set on working against itself rather than together. I didn't write the rules fellas, I'm just playing the game."


Now I understand why I can't ever convince you of a different view as you are deadset on this battle galactica, be it a 1000years from now or now...There are a few "what if's" and maybes in your scenario.

And since when is America known for being nice and being nice as a means of foreign policy?

You aren't even out of college yet and your certain the human race is dead set on fighting versus working together. I forgot you know all the answers.

Take care squiggly, I'm over and out.

 

[sanvanalona]

Yeah still Squiggs one must admit that you have at least the same chance of dying from something you do to yourself as Ahminijahd coming after you and killing you....no? Under that idea this is not a experiment in philosophy, rather just taking your personal philosophy and taking it all the way under the same logic. This logic of fear must take you to fear yourself, you have not convinced me that someday you may be a viable threat to yourself, shit probably the most viable. How do you stop yourself? Should you kill you or should I? You see your scientific logic will come to conclude that even you are doing this earth a disservice just merely by existing, should we not extinguish that? Or, maybe even better put, we are obviously at a philosophical crossroads, should we become brute and destroy one another because of lack of agreement, or should we attempt to learn from one another? I think this is the logic I would like to follow and believe it or not most Iranians would fall under this logic too. You should not judge an entire nation off of the actions of their government, I mean are you responsible for the actions of G.W.? Of course not, therefore lets not kill innocent individuals under the same idea.

 

[sanvanalona]

Let me clarify what I actually mean--if say there is a future generation of Americans which will be in a war with Iran, and Iran will conquer America and all Americans will burn and die. In that case I'd rather push the button. I don't mean we should murder all of Iran this very moment. I'm saying if given the choice, I know which side I'm going with. What I'm saying is that the extremist culture (and it doesn't have to be Iran, that's a meaningless example--any country where this shit is breeding suffices) is seeking to give us EXACTLY THAT CHOICE. That is their objective, their goal. The utter destruction of America as well as everything and everyone in it. They do not mince words about this.

They haven't minced action either. The movement is not losing, but rather gaining ground. How far, as an American, should I be willing to let it go before I worry about the possibility of an all out all of you die or all of us die moment in history? Do I let you build your forces up now? Or do I squash you like an ant for you arrogance in expecting you have now or will ever have the power to do such a thing?

.

Where outside of the country did you stay? How long? With who? I ask these things because you are lacking some real world experience, I think. If I am wrong I am happy to be proven so, but my logic senses that you need to travel more.

You are young and obviously enjoy cannabis, may I suggest Barcelona or if you want to stay closer to home Vancouver......but seriously you should get out to Europe. You see no matter how you slice it the U.S. is a young country, bound to make young mistakes. It is interesting to be in a country that has had our mindset like hundreds of years ago and where it led them. Anyway, I think that you and I are able to converse without being rude, illogical, or just plain asses to one another. So lets get at it, buddy!

 

[datDANK]

 

[datDANK]

 

[squiggly]

Where outside of the country did you stay? How long? With who? I ask these things because you are lacking some real world experience, I think. If I am wrong I am happy to be proven so, but my logic senses that you need to travel more.

You are young and obviously enjoy cannabis, may I suggest Barcelona or if you want to stay closer to home Vancouver......but seriously you should get out to Europe. You see no matter how you slice it the U.S. is a young country, bound to make young mistakes. It is interesting to be in a country that has had our mindset like hundreds of years ago and where it led them. Anyway, I think that you and I are able to converse without being rude, illogical, or just plain asses to one another. So lets get at it, buddy!

I've stayed with a French friend in Lyon for a month, I've been to Berlin, we traveled to Spain when I was in France. List goes on:

Toronto
Mexico (as a boy)
India (with a tour group)
England/Ireland/Wales/Scotland (rich uncle took the family on a trip--I was 15ish)

I also put said French friend up here in the states once a year, for many years now. He just left in mid-May.

On top of that I played several online games in my earlier years which we're primarily populated with Europeans (EVE online as an example). I spent a helllluva a lot of time talking to these people. I'll say for one thing, I much prefer their attitudes to American's--but that doesn't change where my allegiances lie.

 

[squiggly]

Under that idea this is not a experiment in philosophy, rather just taking your personal philosophy and taking it all the way under the same logic.

My logic stops before things are taken too far to suit reality. So no, you are not using my own logic. You're twisting it to some metaphysical end--as I've said, it's a philosophy exercise and that's not what I'm here for. Yes I will more than likely die from something for which I am to blame--but frankly it's not my own death I'm worried about. I'm not scared of terrorists or what have you personally--I'm worried for soldiers, and more so for future generations of Americans who will have to deal with more and better equipped terrorists than we've got now.

I really hate the term terrorists by the way--I wish all of the organizations and split cells would just pick a name (al-Qaeda doesn't cut it).

I'll say it again, genocide is bad. I get that, poor choice of words.

I can be a bit dramatic at times, if you haven't noticed.

The point remains--this is a problem which isn't going to just vanish. Someone is dying at some point. Who and how many of them before (or if) it stops is the question.

With that, though, I think I agree with the others--let's move off the death and maiming discussion--unless you have some zinger you're waiting to unleash on me. Wouldn't want to cut you off.

I, unlike others, am willing to see an argument to its bitter end if need be--I'm not going to fall into personal attacks or running away from an argument I'm losing.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone, myself included, that I went too far--if that's the point you were trying to make, it's made. I'm still left wondering if dude can offer me a physical argument as to why the planes didn't hit though.

To me it's just hilarious, because as I've said my good friend watched it happen. To me it's like watching someone argue that 1 plus 1 does not equal 2.

 

[sanvanalona]

My logic stops before things are taken too far to suit reality. So no, you are not using my own logic. You're twisting it to some metaphysical end--as I've said, it's a philosophy exercise and that's not what I'm here for. Yes I will more than likely die from something for which I am to blame--but frankly it's not my own death I'm worried about. I'm not scared of terrorists or what have you personally--I'm worried for soldiers, and more so for future generations of Americans who will have to deal with more and better equipped terrorists than we've got now.

If you are worried about the soldiers and the future of Americans than maybe promoting working together and finding common understanding with the so called "enemy" should be a priority, as opposed to assuming that killing them before they potentially cause harm to the "allies". Do you not agree that our occupation in the Middle East and our constant interference in their governmental policies are the root cause for terrorism? Therefore, should we not try to make the best International Relations possible?

I am not twisting your philosophy, I think it safe to assume that the biggest threats in America today are from within. At any cost, we should not kill anyone in order to prevent what we think the future may hold, after all nobody can predict the future with absolute certainty. Like I stated, if you think that it is o.k. to kill somebody because they may be harmful to whoever, you should start with yourself. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you should literally kill yourself, but that is what your logic is begging if you think that it is o.k. to kill somebody in the Middle East based off of what may or may not happen in the next hundred years. Nothing metaphysical about it. Please don't put me in Aristotle's camp.

You are right about the need to stop talking of death. I also do not think you should be banned, not at all. I enjoy nothing more than good conversation, part of why I enjoy the sacred herb so much, and you are obviously capable of great conversation....speaking of which I am going to get back to smoking something nice right now. Good Night Squiggly.

 

[squiggly]

Please don't put me in Aristotle's camp.

All of what you said is noted--but I don't agree that it's our foreign policy which has caused this. It certainly hasn't helped--but there is a very core difference between our two greater ideologies. You literally couldn't create a more different people from us (at large) if you had the ability to tweak every little detail. I think that is the root.

I'm not saying we're innocent--I'm saying it is what it is, and we've got what we've got.

It's probably going to require some killing, even if you'd rather it wasn't going to.

I quoted the above because Aristotle is essentially the father of logic, he penned the logical fallacies (in large part) and was one of the first dudes to lay out the rules of debate--most of which we still use today. I'm betting you're thinking of a different Greek whose camp you don't want to be in.

 

[ttystikk]

Having read a lot of Squiggly's postings, and knowing what I know about the actual nasty, dirty, brutish- and sometimes glitzy, admittedly- world of international diplomacy, I would say that the main reason so many disagree with him is due to his willingness to strip the bullshit away and call it like he sees it.

If it's them or us, then it's them. I don't want a fair fight. I want them FINISHED- and no mercy, so they can regroup, lick their wounds and then stab me in the back. Machiavelli was right.

I'm all for diplomacy, working together, and cooperation. What gets forgotten is that not everyone does- at which point negotiating becomes pointless and other measures must be taken.

Can't handle that truth? Then get out of the kitchen, and pray to your god, if you have one, that those who defend our country- and negotiate on our behalf- ARE willing to recognize when diplomatic approaches don't work and go kick the shit out of the enemy.

On the other hand, as we've seen from the last administration, just going out to kick ass without bothering to try the diplomatic route isn't a good long term solution; the Bush 43 crowd really didn't like the subtlety of discussing issues and meeting everyone's needs. Didn't work out so well. The current administration was a bit hemmed in by the mess they were left, but seem to be putting things back in order well enough; kill Bin Laden, quit shoveling money at the Pakistanis while they stab us every chance they get.

Sure, by all means, negotiate; but doing it from a position of strength is a much better approach than begging on your knees.

 

[sanvanalona]

It is important and near impossible to find a real enemy. Talk logical fallacies how about the U.S. ad hitlerum that we have done to describe anybody since him as the enemy. Truth is, I fall under the conspiracy camps when it comes to global warfare. Who was the defined enemy in Iraq? Their army gave up during the first year, and we were supposedly there to protect the people. Right? Afghanistan, who exactly are we fighting over there if Al Qaeda is diminished to few members why are we still there? You can never feasibly kill everyone who dislikes or has contempt for the U.S., because with every kill I would reckon that we create that sentiment tenfold. I am an avid skateboarder, this may sound like it has nothing to do with the conversation but it does. You see I have been skating for a number of years and I have been able to make friends all around the world because of it. I know people in enemy territory because of skateboarding and know that they are people too. Similar wants, pretty much everyone I know wants to eat and be happy. No twisted genocidal thoughts, not at all. I even have Turkish friends that kick with Bulgarians. Jewish and Palestinian kids that skate together. Japanese and Chinese. What I am saying skateboarding has provided me with a way to transcend the bullshit about the so called enemy by humanizing them. This gives me the compassionate outlook I have when dealing with them.

When I say I fall under conspiracy camps in this its because I think war since WWII has been devised for population control. To assume that the government does everything out in the open is simply asinine, I am not saying that any of you do, just that I find balance between absolute conspiracy and absolute government transparency and think that are many things that "average joe" really doesn't need to know nor would want to if given the chance. War is one of these. At least it has been since we stopped being open about our geographical or monetary advantages from going to war, pretty much since Hitler.

 

[2DogWalker]

I really wish I wasn't stuck in the middle of no where on my phone to reply because I have so much to say, and am always horrible w my grammar etc on this thing....

9/11 - I've watched alot of videos and read my share of research etc... and am Not convinced it was an inside job, the possibilities are present but very hard to come up w a full story without some unexplainable holes..although a group that can fly jets w that skill level (into the pentagon) and orchestrate such an attack seemingly would have been capable of much more.....

Iran/middle east - these people hate us because we terroize them! Bottom fucking line....go there watch a dog rip some forearms off and tell me you wouldn't HATE the responsible party.....

JFK- sorry its in te past and my generation has so much bullshit that we will have to deal With that jfks killer is not on my radar...(landfills, pollution, nuclear reactors) seem a little more pressing....

And to squig, I don't disagree w alot of what you have said.....but as one who is quite removed from average life I have spent many days circling our world (mentally) outside of books and would recommend to you some time alone in nature....and don't take any research material with you bro, your brain deserves a rest and an opportunity to create brother!!!

Much respect to all,
2dogwalker

 

[dirk d]

DirkD,I apologize for some dumbass saying he wants to blow up your homeland bro,thats not right.As for the whole cospiracy theory i cant tell you who flew them or why but i can tell you planes hit those towers,my daughter lived in downtown manhattan while attending the New school there and while she did not see the first hit,she heard it and she watched the second plane fly right into the building minutes later as did many thousands of others.

Thanks Fish, my thinking is that at least 1 plane hit the towers and that the government knew about what was going to happen and was ready to maximise its own benefit from these attacks. The pentagon attack was obviously not a plane but a missile. And clearly explosives were rigged in all the building that fell.

There are many ignorant people in America. We live on this "island" and are too busy focusing on paying bills and trying to survive that foreign policy never really mattered to most. The internet is what is setting minds free. Information can no longer be hidden like it used to be and awareness is growing.

 

[dirk d]

I call that "living in the guess". You might think a lot of things as it relates to this, but how many of them do you truly know?

Squiggly I keep forgetting how young you are. You have been fed a good amount of knowledge and can regurgitate very eloquently but what do you know about life?? Only what you have been told.

As for going to fight myself. If we were in a situation where we needed more troops--I'd be there. When the buildings got hit it took 4 uncles, both grandfathers, and my crying mother to keep me from signing up. My uncles/grandfathers were ALL ex military, they essentially told me "you're not fucking going."

Look at how your elders, those with Life Experience, tried to keep you from going to war. Ex-military that survived said you are not going! good thing you listened to them otherwise we wouldnt be having this conversation.

So yes, I would go fight--as it stands now the military is doing anything it can to get people out. If Russia invades--you'll find me on my roof killing Russians, of that you can be sure.
But you didn’t and I’m not talking about if we get invaded. We are the ones invading other countries.

All in all, what I'm saying is that allowing your neighbors to be murderous fiends and doing nothing about it is reason enough, for me, to revoke your ticket to the future.
So you are now judge, jury, and executioner?? Lol what a joke!

They blew up our buildings--they killed our civilians. I bet you if we were doing the same thing to them (rather than the suicide bombers killing them trying to come after us)--they'd think twice about such things. That's my only point really. You fight fire with fire in war--not fire with pussy-footing.
How many people are dead because of US foreign policy?? You think they "blow" themselves up because they "don't like us?" I wonder what it would take for you to "blow yourself up"

Now I'm not saying mid-easterners are bad--I'm saying that they are different. Their culture has an endemic violence connected to it that would make just about ANY American cringe. I'm not making a judgment here, I'm simply stating facts. These people are much more cool with blood and killing than any American I've ever met.
So you talk about murdering millions but it’s the middle eastern culture that is endemically violent lol. Americans are truly some of the best killers in the world, if not the best. And it's other countries we have to worry about? The only nation to use an atomic bomb but its other cultures that are wrong. I'm also assuming you relate "american" with average 9-5 working people?

These people categorically do not understand live and let live.
So you understand live and let live?? Lol

Our enemy is not hampered by such feelings, and sending our boys in that way has already been getting them killed, and it's going to continue to.
The “enemy has lost its family members and has suffered beyond your comprehension. If you corner a wonded dog, what do you think that dog will do?

Here's my real preference--pull the military out, and rain drone strikes wherever the hell we can prove terrorists plots are happening--regardless of if the parent country likes it.
So we should advocate war and terror instead of compassion and justice? What makes us any different than the barbarians of a 1000 years ago?? can Humanity not evolve to a higher plane?

Now if they played nice and acted like they didn't want to destroy us but secretly they did, alright then I'd be chill with them.
You are quoting American foreign policy?? Lol

What I am is a liberal democrat
Wow if you are then I really worry about America!

I'm a realist
Actually you are a narcissist

To me it's just hilarious, because as I've said my good friend watched it happen. To me it's like watching someone argue that 1 plus 1 does not equal 2.
There is no wing span damage to the pentagon building. If there is no wing span damage then how could a jumbo jet hit the pentagon??? So taking the word of a “friend” has more weight than actual information?

I don't agree that it's our foreign policy which has caused this
You constantly remind me of how young and naïve you are squiggly

 

[dirk d]

My Last posts really brings to my attention "what does it mean to be a narcissit?"

lol i might be a "reformed" narcissist lol

 

[dirk d]

taken from wikipedia

Traits and signs
Thomas suggests that narcissists typically display most, sometimes all, of the following traits:[5]

• An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
• Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
• A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
• Difficulty with empathy
• Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
• Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
• Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
• Haughty body language
• Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
• Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
• Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
• Pretending to be more important than they really are
• Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
• Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
• Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
• Denial of remorse and gratitude

Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissism

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[6]

1. Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
2. Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
3. Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
4. Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
5. Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
6. Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
7. Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.

 

[dirk d]

'Some psychoanalysts and writers make a distinction between "healthy narcissism" and "unhealthy narcissism"...the healthy narcissist being someone who has a real sense of self-esteem that can enable them to leave their imprint on the world, but who can also share in the emotional life of others'.


CharacteristicHealthy NarcissismDestructive Narcissism
Self-confidence High outward self-confidence in line with reality Grandiose
Desire for power, wealth and admiration May enjoy power Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit
Relationships Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse
Ability to follow a consistent path Has values; follows through on plans Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course
Foundation Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others

 

[marski420]

To those who dont think 9/11 was inside thats cool but to say theres too many holes that should be the other way around. The original story has a plethora of holes if you have really done your research.To the person who said their daughter seen it live.. I dont discredit that but theres actually a scientific term as to why she thinks she seen a plane even though one never existed and that term is "False Memory Syndrome". Some people may remember a story of what happened on October 30th 1938 when CBS played a fake radio broadcast titled "War of the worlds".. People who were tuning in didnt know it was an act and many believed everything was real.. It was deemed many had false memory syndrome because they "Saw flashes or Alien craft" "Felt the earth rumble" and "Smelled poisonous gas" which of course means their minds played tricks on them.Many killed themselves because they thought the broadcast was so real and an alien invasion was actually happening. A lesson to take from that day is the media has always had the ability to make you think things were real or not real and wield the ability to make most people believe what they say.
Which is more likely, that your daughter actually seen the plane with her own eyes or if you seen the video I posted the live chopper shows the plane go through 2 sets of 4 foot thick steel blocks and exit through the other side still completely intact.. theres so many more things that prove the planes were edited and all it takes is logic to realize what happened, according to the new's own video its impossible. I have to say it one more time.. a planes nose is hollow and made of plastic.. it could not penetrate a very sturdy steel building and come out the other side still completely intact. On the video he takes a clip from a random news report where the same supposed air craft's nose was hit by a bird and was dented. Logic can only dictate that if a bird can dent a planes nose then 8 feet of steel plus the other structural support throughout the middle of the building would stop the ALUMINIUM plane dead in its tracks and blow up against the wall. Squigs I have the scientific proof you need for that.. newtons 3 laws of motion. If you know how those laws work you know that the plane hitting that building is equal to the force of the building itself moving that fast and hitting a still plane, the force is identical. What would happen if the WTC was moving 500 miles an hour (like the plane supposedly was) and hit a passenger plane sitting still on the ground? The plane would blow up in to pieces and thats exactly what didnt happen on 9/11.. the planes on 9/11 completely disappear in to the tower without slowing down, breaking, bending or blowing up. Then on top of all this the hole the plane leaves in the building is way bigger than it could be even if a real one hit it. A kerosene explosion cant cut steel and yet thats what most of the "Experts" claim happened.

I will promote that video as the real story until I die and until the nay sayers watch it and disprove any of it I think the videos reputation stands. Watch the video and bring me anything to debate with if your logic rules over mine I will gladly admit my defeat.. Im not so proud that I can never be wrong so bring me a valid logical argument.
Peace to all, smoking on this Larry OG wishing everyone good health and safety.