Vakman
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I think that's a bit of a stretch if we're being logical, frankly. I'm not playing at a thought experiment here--I'm talking about active threats which we can see. Even if I weren't--I'm not speaking on philosophy, I'm talking tangibles. I was also trying to use extremes to lay out this idea of what the spectrum is. It goes from being giant pussies and walking into bullets and bombs and waiting to be nuked at some point, to genocide. Obviously I've ruffled some feathers going that far. Let me clarify what I actually mean--if say there is a future generation of Americans which will be in a war with Iran, and Iran will conquer America and all Americans will burn and die. In that case I'd rather push the button. I don't mean we should murder all of Iran this very moment. I'm saying if given the choice, I know which side I'm going with. What I'm saying is that the extremist culture (and it doesn't have to be Iran, that's a meaningless example--any country where this shit is breeding suffices) is seeking to give us EXACTLY THAT CHOICE. That is their objective, their goal. The utter destruction of America as well as everything and everyone in it. They do not mince words about this.
They haven't minced action either. The movement is not losing, but rather gaining ground. How far, as an American, should I be willing to let it go before I worry about the possibility of an all out all of you die or all of us die moment in history? Do I let you build your forces up now? Or do I squash you like an ant for you arrogance in expecting you have now or will ever have the power to do such a thing?
That's the thing. We have the bigger stick. Do we just sit here and wait around until they find a bigger one and act out their clear plans of committing genocide here in some service to this politically correct bullshit?
If you have a tumor, do you wait until it metastasizes, or do you cut it the fuck out?
I just happen to not look at the world in this touchy feely way where everything is always fuzzy and nice. Sometimes people want to kill people. If they think they've got the juice, I'd like to see them that and raise them $20 while we can. I don't want to wait until the decisions falls to them as to whether or not they want to utterly destroy us.
Now if they played nice and acted like they didn't want to destroy us but secretly they did, alright then I'd be chill with them. However, they've literally said what they want--and to me it's just this incredibly ballsy move. It's like saying okay, I'm in a body cast now--but when I get out I'm going to shoot you with my gun.
How bout I just choke you the fuck out in your wheelchair then? I mean when it comes right down to it, they started this genocide shit--not me. That's what they're after, I haven't even upped the fuckin' ante. I'm just saying, let's not just wait for these guys to get the things the need to actually do the stuff they want to do.
It makes sense to me. I don't expect for it to make sense to you, but I assure you--I am not a crazy person nor am I ever going to murder someone :)
@ fishwhistle -- what I am is a person who believes what he does, and doesn't shy from saying it. What I am is a liberal democrat who believes that war is ugly and while we would rather it weren't necessary--it is the inevitable fate of mankind. What I also am is someone who at least tries to be respectful of other people's opinions (not falsified facts disguised as opinions--there is a huge difference), which is more than I'm able to say for you. Saying I'm crossed with a serial killer? That's a dick move. I'm a realist--I know how much stuff there is on the planet. A finite amount, that's how much. Try and come to a happy medium there and you'll fall short every single time.
Try and fight it as we might, in the end we'll be a bunch of dogs flaying at each other for the last piece of meat there ever was or would be. Then we'll start eating each other--and it'll get weird.
Humans are weak creatures, with vile tendencies. As I've already said I wouldn't actually push a genocide button, I was trying to be figurative--it was not in good taste. Attacking my character for a lapse in judgment isn't going to derail any of what I've said which is factual. Any and all of my opinions have been and always will be subject question and criticism--but facts are facts.
We ultimately got ourselves here because a few people wanted to unseat facts with opinions. That is a huge pet peeve of mine, and so here you find me. I haven't been banned because I keep my comments like these in the proper forums, and I try not to personally attack people--I rather attack their positions.
I have had lapses in this before, for which I have already heartily apologized here--and I've done a good job I'd say since that time of keeping it about my opinion and what I think, and perhaps how that relates to others opinions--rather than about others themselves.
I apologized for that because I realize that I can't toot the logic horn and go around attacking people's character--those two don't go together. They don't go together for you either.
Squiggs, you are undoubtedly an intelligent man, its obvious by the way you speak and piece things together, and i think a lot of what you say has merit. that being said, can you not see this from a different perspective? you are far too smart not to. when most people read the things you say, i feel, that the way you come across is deranged, too direct and extreme. if you changed some of your speaking you would get your message across more efficiently and effectively. people will listen to you more if you can put some things differently. such as, when you compare such extremes as the genocide button a fair amount of readers are automatically turned off by the extremity of your thinking, and seeing you apologize i think you've realized it.
all that aside, i don't think you necessarily are saying that you would completely wipe iran (just an example) off the map. but to convey your message a lil more gently and a little less extreme you will let others know your opinion because they don't tune you out, they can actually listen and respond without having a bias against you automatically.
Keep voicing your opinion. many people don't or can't do it for fear of what others might think or say. discussions like this help me look at different perspectives and ideas. not everyone will learn from this as i have, and thats their loss. you don't need to agree with everything someone says in order to take something from the interaction and learn from it.
till next time.