Outdoor Grow Problem, Trouble Identifying.

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vitaminG

22
3
Hey folks,

New member here and getting back into growing after almost 10 years.
Doing an outdoor grow this year from some a few clones I picked up - 2 Marionberry Kush (MBK1 and MBK2), and 1 Chernobyl clone.

Started to see some lower leaf yellowing on both Marionberries on 7/6/17 which has steadily gotten worse. Now I'm seeing yellowing in the Chernobyl too.

We have had 2 very hot weeks here in the PNW over the last couple of months. 90-100 F a few days.
Since beginning of June, temps have been mostly in the 80s during the daytime.
Been watering with city water/ gallons left out and chlorine hopefully evaporated off.
Just wondering what some more advanced growers might think. Current pics added at the end.

Here's the grow journal if you are interested the details.

_______________________________________________________
5/26/17
Starting soil - cheap potting soil with lots of bark in it, mixed with about half cup of 5-10-10 Lilly Miller granules mixed in.

---

6/28/17
Transplanted to bigger pots 3 - 5 gallons.

---

7/6/17
Started noticing some lower fan leaves turning slightly lime green.
Top foliage still seemingly growing nicely.
These same leaves had the occasional brown spot.
I had given them some half-strength Miracle Grow nitrogen maybe a week to 3 days before. NPK of 24 8 16
The plant that seemed most effected was MBK1, the big Marionberry Kush. This was also the plant that received the highest dose.
I thought that maybe the plants weren't getting ENOUGH nitrogen.
Within a few days after this date, as an experiment, I misted the foliage with a fairly moderate nitrogen water mixture. I did this in the morning perhaps on 7/8/17.
This didn't seem to help the next day, but I tried it one more time perhaps on the 9th.
This is when I looked at the plant closer and decided it was more likely a nutrient excess or pH problem?
Rinsed the leaves.

---

7/9/17
Lower leaves have continued yellowing steadily.
Flushed all plants with tapwater from the hose till the water ran mostly clear out of the pots.
Attempted pH readings but the meter I bought is not reliable. Number reads "7" after flush but I don't really trust it.

---

7/11/17
Lower leaves have seemingly continued to yellow.
Went and bought fish fertilizer.
1 teaspoon diluted in gallon (one-third-strength), distributed 'proportionally' to all plants based on pot size.
Perhaps the plants are getting ready to flower and they don't have enough P and K? Fungus? Disease?

---

7/13/17
More yellowing on MBK2. MBK2 is in the blue 5 gallon bucket and is leggier than MBK1. It's only the older, bigger leaves that seem to be yellowing.

MBK1 seems to have stabilized some but it's hard to tell due to the differences in light in the pictures. Older leaves are still lime green and some have brown spots.

Starting to think it's most likely a pH lockout, or Mag/Calcium deficiency with possibly potassium related deficiency since there is no magnesium in any of the fertilizers that I have. The chart below indicates that Mg and Phosphorous lock out at about 7. Maybe I have alkaline water?

---

7/15/17
Foliar fed all plants with a very light fish fert dilution (1/4 teaspoon diluted in gallon).

Plants today appear the same today as yesterday for the most part. There might be some more yellowing going on with MBK2.

If the plants are wanting to flower, it might make sense that they are craving some flower fertilizer, maybe that's why we're getting yellow leaves on the Indicas and not on the Sativa dominant Chernobyl. I thought it also might be possible that the MBK2's pot is too hot during the day.

Went ahead and wrapped all the pots in burlap and fastened with clothespins.

But also, why would MBK2 be yellowing leaves like crazy but MBK1 is seemingly stabilized. Things that have been different about MBK2:

  1. There was no cloth over the bucket to block the heat.
  2. Originally the plant was in a less than desirable pot
  3. Roots seemed weak when I initially transplanted on 6/28 (Had to prop it up with a marshmallow stick)
  4. Bucket is much deeper (could be that it didn't flush all the way or that it's stayed too moist)
  5. Holes might not be sufficiently large for drainage.
---

7/17/17
All plants look worse, needing water.
MBK1 is yellowing again.
Even Chernobyl has started to visibly yellow now.
Could it be that the foliar spray made them yellow even more?
Maybe the extra leaf nitrogen made the plant want to spurt in growth more, taking away more phosphorus/potassium/magnesium from the leaves.
Calcium problem?
No sign of flowers coming on.

Fertilizing now with a mixture to see if I can fix the problem.
Hopefully it isn't a pH problem. Will test the pH of soil and my water tonight.

1.5 teaspoons 5-1-1. 1.5 teaspoons 0-10-10 (both fish) / gallon
1/2 teaspoon epsom salts / gallon

Yellow on MBK2:
IMG 1069


MBK2 growing tip:
IMG 1074


MBK1 doing better than MBK2:
IMG 1071


Chernobyl starting to yellow at base:
IMG 1073
 
Last edited:
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
Hey folks,

New member here and getting back into growing after almost 10 years.
Doing an outdoor grow this year from some a few clones I picked up - 2 Marionberry Kush (MBK1 and MBK2), and 1 Chernobyl clone.

Started to see some lower leaf yellowing on both Marionberries on 7/6/17 which has steadily gotten worse. Now I'm seeing yellowing in the Chernobyl too.

We have had 2 very hot weeks here in the PNW over the last couple of months. 90-100 F a few days.
Since beginning of June, temps have been mostly in the 80s during the daytime.
Been watering with city water/ gallons left out and chlorine hopefully evaporated off.
Just wondering what some more advanced growers might think. Current pics added at the end.

Here's the grow journal if you are interested the details.

_______________________________________________________
5/26/17
Starting soil - cheap potting soil with lots of bark in it, mixed with about half cup of 5-10-10 Lilly Miller granules mixed in.

---

6/28/17
Transplanted to bigger pots 3 - 5 gallons.

---

7/6/17
Started noticing some lower fan leaves turning slightly lime green.
Top foliage still seemingly growing nicely.
These same leaves had the occasional brown spot.
I had given them some half-strength Miracle Grow nitrogen maybe a week to 3 days before. NPK of 24 8 16
The plant that seemed most effected was MBK1, the big Marionberry Kush. This was also the plant that received the highest dose.
I thought that maybe the plants weren't getting ENOUGH nitrogen.
Within a few days after this date, as an experiment, I misted the foliage with a fairly moderate nitrogen water mixture. I did this in the morning perhaps on 7/8/17.
This didn't seem to help the next day, but I tried it one more time perhaps on the 9th.
This is when I looked at the plant closer and decided it was more likely a nutrient excess or pH problem?
Rinsed the leaves.

---

7/9/17
Lower leaves have continued yellowing steadily.
Flushed all plants with tapwater from the hose till the water ran mostly clear out of the pots.
Attempted pH readings but the meter I bought is not reliable. Number reads "7" after flush but I don't really trust it.

---

7/11/17
Lower leaves have seemingly continued to yellow.
Went and bought fish fertilizer.
1 teaspoon diluted in gallon (one-third-strength), distributed 'proportionally' to all plants based on pot size.
Perhaps the plants are getting ready to flower and they don't have enough P and K? Fungus? Disease?

---

7/13/17
More yellowing on MBK2. MBK2 is in the blue 5 gallon bucket and is leggier than MBK1. It's only the older, bigger leaves that seem to be yellowing.

MBK1 seems to have stabilized some but it's hard to tell due to the differences in light in the pictures. Older leaves are still lime green and some have brown spots.

Starting to think it's most likely a pH lockout, or Mag/Calcium deficiency with possibly potassium related deficiency since there is no magnesium in any of the fertilizers that I have. The chart below indicates that Mg and Phosphorous lock out at about 7. Maybe I have alkaline water?

---

7/15/17
Foliar fed all plants with a very light fish fert dilution (1/4 teaspoon diluted in gallon).

Plants today appear the same today as yesterday for the most part. There might be some more yellowing going on with MBK2.

If the plants are wanting to flower, it might make sense that they are craving some flower fertilizer, maybe that's why we're getting yellow leaves on the Indicas and not on the Sativa dominant Chernobyl. I thought it also might be possible that the MBK2's pot is too hot during the day.

Went ahead and wrapped all the pots in burlap and fastened with clothespins.

But also, why would MBK2 be yellowing leaves like crazy but MBK1 is seemingly stabilized. Things that have been different about MBK2:

  1. There was no cloth over the bucket to block the heat.
  2. Originally the plant was in a less than desirable pot
  3. Roots seemed weak when I initially transplanted on 6/28 (Had to prop it up with a marshmallow stick)
  4. Bucket is much deeper (could be that it didn't flush all the way or that it's stayed too moist)
  5. Holes might not be sufficiently large for drainage.
---

7/17/17
All plants look worse, needing water.
MBK1 is yellowing again.
Even Chernobyl has started to visibly yellow now.
Could it be that the foliar spray made them yellow even more?
Maybe the extra leaf nitrogen made the plant want to spurt in growth more, taking away more phosphorus/potassium/magnesium from the leaves.
Calcium problem?
No sign of flowers coming on.

Fertilizing now with a mixture to see if I can fix the problem.
Hopefully it isn't a pH problem. Will test the pH of soil and my water tonight.

1.5 teaspoons 5-1-1. 1.5 teaspoons 0-10-10 (both fish) / gallon
1/2 teaspoon epsom salts / gallon

Yellow on MBK2:
View attachment 721021

MBK2 growing tip:
View attachment 721022

MBK1 doing better than MBK2:
View attachment 721023

Chernobyl starting to yellow at base:
View attachment 721024
Hello there. It sounds like you had your NPK ratios completely backwards when you started those plants.I feel like you may have overdosed them with way too many nutrients trying to correct a problem. Also please never use Miracle-Gro it is not a good product. My best advice for you at this point is to get a soil test kit and find out what you've got. They sell them on Amazon for seven bucks. Quit giving them all those nutrients and give a little straight water until you find out what you've got.
 
V

vitaminG

22
3
Tested the soil pH tonight and it's 6.5 on the money. Don't know what else to do so I guess I'll just leave them alone for a while.
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
Tested the soil pH tonight and it's 6.5 on the money. Don't know what else to do so I guess I'll just leave them alone for a while.
They sell a soil test kit that will not only give you pH results but it will give you NPK results. You will probably find that they are off the charts. Feed straight water until your test kit arrives. I think they have those kits at Lowe's
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
Tested the soil pH tonight and it's 6.5 on the money. Don't know what else to do so I guess I'll just leave them alone for a while.
Use distilled water for your PH soil test. The NPK tap water is fine.
 
V

vitaminG

22
3
IMG 1081
They sell a soil test kit that will not only give you pH results but it will give you NPK results. You will probably find that they are off the charts. Feed straight water until your test kit arrives. I think they have those kits at Lowe's
That's actually the exact one that I picked up. I also tested the NPK but since the color scale is kinda subjective nothing really jumped out at me. According to the scale potassium and phosphorous are kinda hot, nitrogen somewhere in the middle.
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
You probably overdid it with the synthetic fertilizers
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
View attachment 721172
That's actually the exact one that I picked up. I also tested the NPK but since the color scale is kinda subjective nothing really jumped out at me. According to the scale potassium and phosphorous are kinda hot, nitrogen somewhere in the middle.
Epsom salt is very powerful you have to go very easy with it also.
 
OldManRiver

OldManRiver

1,388
263
I'm no expert, but have grown more than a few crops. My plants (outside, in the PNW) are showing the same yellowing on the lowest shade leaves. I think this is fairly normal as plants start transitioning to flower. My girls are 5 feet tall, bushy as hell, and very healthy, yet they show yellowing of the oldest big leaves. I think the plants are just cannibalizing the lower leaves as they get ready to flower. Most of my crops indoors showed this, despite being in a hydro setup where I KNOW there was no nutrient shortage.

tl;dr, if the plants are otherwise healthy, I would go easy on the ferts and breath deeply.
 
OldManRiver

OldManRiver

1,388
263
Here'sa couple pics of what I was discussing. If you look closely at the base, you'll see some yellow leaves. These are not unhealthy plants.
IMG 20170720 125442
 
IMG 20170720 125500
below frigid

below frigid

757
143
Mine plants do the same thing. It always freaks me out a bit because I still have 3 months to go. Yesterday I noticed I have a couple plants just starting to flower.
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
I'm no expert, but have grown more than a few crops. My plants (outside, in the PNW) are showing the same yellowing on the lowest shade leaves. I think this is fairly normal as plants start transitioning to flower. My girls are 5 feet tall, bushy as hell, and very healthy, yet they show yellowing of the oldest big leaves. I think the plants are just cannibalizing the lower leaves as they get ready to flower. Most of my crops indoors showed this, despite being in a hydro setup where I KNOW there was no nutrient shortage.

tl;dr, if the plants are otherwise healthy, I would go easy on the ferts and breath deeply.
I think that is almost unavoidable as well. I have my ideas on what could be going on and how to try and remedy but it's not a huge issue a lot of the time for me.
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
I'm no expert, but have grown more than a few crops. My plants (outside, in the PNW) are showing the same yellowing on the lowest shade leaves. I think this is fairly normal as plants start transitioning to flower. My girls are 5 feet tall, bushy as hell, and very healthy, yet they show yellowing of the oldest big leaves. I think the plants are just cannibalizing the lower leaves as they get ready to flower. Most of my crops indoors showed this, despite being in a hydro setup where I KNOW there was no nutrient shortage.

tl;dr, if the plants are otherwise healthy, I would go easy on the ferts and breath deeply.
I still feel like in vitamin G's situation they look like to me they might have been over fertilized a little bit..
 
V

vitaminG

22
3
Thanks all for your solid input :)

On 7/20 I moved them into some reusable shopping bags with much better soil mix. Roots were healthy and they got a good flush before going into their new containers.
The soil:
1 part corresponds to a whole 5 gallon bucket.
1/2 part loamy/sandy soil from a soil place mixed in various proportions with peaty stuff.
1/2 part perlite
1/2 part compost (store bought) labeled a local compost (was wet and kinda clumpy)
3/4 cup earthworm castings.
2/3 cup Jobes Veg and Tomato 2-5-3 (contains calcium and magnesium)

Reason for the higher P and K was I thought they'd be entering flower soon. They are still vegging as of today.
After about a week of repotting, they began to yellow again rapidly, so I just don't know. The old leaves yellow quickly, but the plants also seem to put off new growth just as fast, but it is pale.
I suppose it could be the stress of everything I've put them through combined with the weather and transplants. Bad genes or viruses?
Someone I've been talking to thinks they are actually nitrogen deficient due to their paleness/yellowing.
Although they don't look horrible, they certainly aren't growing to their potential. At this point I know they won't veg much more but I just hope they will stay healthy enough to flower well for their size. Pics from today for the record:

IMG 1200

IMG 1201
IMG 1202
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
Thanks all for your solid input :)

On 7/20 I moved them into some reusable shopping bags with much better soil mix. Roots were healthy and they got a good flush before going into their new containers.
The soil:
1 part corresponds to a whole 5 gallon bucket.
1/2 part loamy/sandy soil from a soil place mixed in various proportions with peaty stuff.
1/2 part perlite
1/2 part compost (store bought) labeled a local compost (was wet and kinda clumpy)
3/4 cup earthworm castings.
2/3 cup Jobes Veg and Tomato 2-5-3 (contains calcium and magnesium)

Reason for the higher P and K was I thought they'd be entering flower soon. They are still vegging as of today.
After about a week of repotting, they began to yellow again rapidly, so I just don't know. The old leaves yellow quickly, but the plants also seem to put off new growth just as fast, but it is pale.
I suppose it could be the stress of everything I've put them through combined with the weather and transplants. Bad genes or viruses?
Someone I've been talking to thinks they are actually nitrogen deficient due to their paleness/yellowing.
Although they don't look horrible, they certainly aren't growing to their potential. At this point I know they won't veg much more but I just hope they will stay healthy enough to flower well for their size. Pics from today for the record:

View attachment 728003
View attachment 728010 View attachment 728011
How many hours of direct sunlight are they receiving per day? Are you using cal-mag?
 
dnewsome2

dnewsome2

2,020
163
I would try a little more sunlight and some of this especially if your plant is in veg it needs nitrogen.
 

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