Outdoor Supersoil

[GrowingGreen]

A lot of alfalfa, becareful if you over due it you will have some funky new growth. Also neem can burn your plants, oils amplify light on the leaves leading to burnt spots, but use it often indeed recommended before sun has direct contact with plants. Karanja is very similar oil and is cheaper/easier to deal with when it comes to emulsifying, IMHO maybe look into it too. If you use either source the highest quality you can a lot of neem products are filled with inert ingredients. If biology is there you can easily handle 40's. I just germed 6 dozen in high 30s at night and storming 100% germ rate no pre soak just watered in with my microbial inoculant in solo cups. Careful though supplemental lighting might be necessary where you are currently for outdoors. @Ecompost whats your opinion on the last part mate, been meaning to bring it up for discussion. Neem is considered a cooling plant (yin), more efficient when paired with warming (yang) botanicals such as Rosemary, sage, wormwood, patchouli, ginger, turmeric. Balance and diversity is key, neem isn't a cure all but when paired correctly it potentially is.

Thank you brother, ive used neemoil as prevention in the past, i use jacks deadbug as a preventive, the alfalfa was a bit much tomorrow's batch will be 1/2 the size

 

[Ecompost]

A lot of alfalfa, becareful if you over due it you will have some funky new growth. Also neem can burn your plants, oils amplify light on the leaves leading to burnt spots, but use it often indeed recommended before sun has direct contact with plants. Karanja is very similar oil and is cheaper/easier to deal with when it comes to emulsifying, IMHO maybe look into it too. If you use either source the highest quality you can a lot of neem products are filled with inert ingredients. If biology is there you can easily handle 40's. I just germed 6 dozen in high 30s at night and storming 100% germ rate no pre soak just watered in with my microbial inoculant in solo cups. Careful though supplemental lighting might be necessary where you are currently for outdoors. @Ecompost whats your opinion on the last part mate, been meaning to bring it up for discussion. Neem is considered a cooling plant (yin), more efficient when paired with warming (yang) botanicals such as Rosemary, sage, wormwood, patchouli, ginger, turmeric. Balance and diversity is key, neem isn't a cure all but when paired correctly it potentially is.

Agreed, I use Karanja meal mate, but I also use it with a partner plant(s), ginseng and liquorice or a CMS with Angelica Root which I use to warm my plants after winter, or as a treatment say like now for example, I can spray under cloud cover during the day, at night we are getting clear skies and frosts, so as the sun comes out, it warms the land, the moisture causing cloud cover mid afternoon, but its warm enough. I found with a CMS, this blend really kicks arse, not as an IPM, but growth stimulant in cool spring conditions or also late fall

by the way good to see you bro

 

[Ecompost]

I posted this elsewhere, but its highly relevant here in light of organic amendments etc and time to grow being the key with MJ..

Ok, so Alan and I have been discussing various soil amendments and relationships between microbes, available Nitrogen and the time to decay being of primary importance. To make a point here, I have chosen Seaweed, Kelp or Brown Seaweed, no matter. Lets consider its addition and what this means in real terms to a grower expecting some result near instantly.

When seaweed, or indeed any under-composted organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, this usually being the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any under composted vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows.

Farmers in the past, and even today to a lesser extent, burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw. Today we have a product that can activate decomposition at a far higher rate than if we left the matter and or hoped to till it in after harvest and hope its gone come time to plant again.

It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth. This knowledge of relevant decay rates for organic inputs, will help growers better understand the limitations of fixed organic inputs such as Kelp Meal, Guano, Manure, Wood Chip and so on, but more, will help you guys understand the critical nature of ensuring a flow of readily available plant N to pick up the BioN shortfall during conversion. It it also worth noting, Applications of Nitrogen should be tapered towards the decay rate marker. In the case of Seaweed Meal this would be week 15 plus or minus 1 week depending on relative humidity, and temperature rates.

It is therefore clear that while seaweed, in common with all organic matter, is beneficial to soil and plant, it has to be broken down, or decomposed, before its benefits are available. (I have already pointed out, but repeat it here, that liquid seaweed extract is not subject to this latent period. The nutrients and other substances it contains are available to the plant at once, however, in processing to liquid states kind of changes the use case as its more of an instant fix, with nothing latent where meal is a slower release and more cost effective, less prone to mold, unlike liquid kelp which if not kept cool and dark will spoil really fast.

This period of decomposition -- or composting, as gardeners know it -- usually extends over months rather than the time it might take to grow a short day crop. It can, however, be reduced by the use of dried blood and loam according to the technique invented by Mr. L. C. Chilcott. Only fourteen days of heating up are required before the mixture is used, and no latent period follows. I can provide details for those of you interested.

Hope this helps you guys when you are out and about talking to folks about Organix and dont forget, it is the inherent need for microbes to convert organic matter that means they often rob Nitrogen from our growing plants until a balance of decay is met. This is what is meant when people say "I cook my soil". It is the time taken to decay all or most or some of the organic inputs before planting. To know if you need Nitrogen, a simple calculation will help BioN = BioC/8

Happy growing with Organix :)

Eco

 

[GrowingGreen]

I posted this elsewhere, but its highly relevant here in light of organic amendments etc and time to grow being the key with MJ..

Ok, so Alan and I have been discussing various soil amendments and relationships between microbes, available Nitrogen and the time to decay being of primary importance. To make a point here, I have chosen Seaweed, Kelp or Brown Seaweed, no matter. Lets consider its addition and what this means in real terms to a grower expecting some result near instantly.

When seaweed, or indeed any under-composted organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, this usually being the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any under composted vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows.

Farmers in the past, and even today to a lesser extent, burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw. Today we have a product that can activate decomposition at a far higher rate than if we left the matter and or hoped to till it in after harvest and hope its gone come time to plant again.

It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth. This knowledge of relevant decay rates for organic inputs, will help growers better understand the limitations of fixed organic inputs such as Kelp Meal, Guano, Manure, Wood Chip and so on, but more, will help you guys understand the critical nature of ensuring a flow of readily available plant N to pick up the BioN shortfall during conversion. It it also worth noting, Applications of Nitrogen should be tapered towards the decay rate marker. In the case of Seaweed Meal this would be week 15 plus or minus 1 week depending on relative humidity, and temperature rates.

It is therefore clear that while seaweed, in common with all organic matter, is beneficial to soil and plant, it has to be broken down, or decomposed, before its benefits are available. (I have already pointed out, but repeat it here, that liquid seaweed extract is not subject to this latent period. The nutrients and other substances it contains are available to the plant at once, however, in processing to liquid states kind of changes the use case as its more of an instant fix, with nothing latent where meal is a slower release and more cost effective, less prone to mold, unlike liquid kelp which if not kept cool and dark will spoil really fast.

This period of decomposition -- or composting, as gardeners know it -- usually extends over months rather than the time it might take to grow a short day crop. It can, however, be reduced by the use of dried blood and loam according to the technique invented by Mr. L. C. Chilcott. Only fourteen days of heating up are required before the mixture is used, and no latent period follows. I can provide details for those of you interested.

Hope this helps you guys when you are out and about talking to folks about Organix and dont forget, it is the inherent need for microbes to convert organic matter that means they often rob Nitrogen from our growing plants until a balance of decay is met. This is what is meant when people say "I cook my soil". It is the time taken to decay all or most or some of the organic inputs before planting. To know if you need Nitrogen, a simple calculation will help BioN = BioC/8

Happy growing with Organix :)

Eco

Thank you dog! Gonna read it a couple times just soak up in my brain, on your next article can you explain protozoa advantages and disadvantages?

 

[Ecompost]

Thank you dog! Gonna read it a couple times just soak up in my brain, on your next article can you explain protozoa advantages and disadvantages?

yes mate i can and will. I have something somewhere i wrote about Microbial Loop Theory. This is the crux of Protozoa, a vital component of moving ions from bacteria, to our plants.

MLT is a theory stolen from the study of water life, but recently science has proven its like model in soil systems.
Oregon state have an entry level pdf here but you can see they have added in the soil science part :-)

You can also find articles here on the farm re MLT posted by @jumpincactus and @Savage Henry has a fascinating discussion on the importance of herbivorous insect frass towards the whole Nitrogen factor debate. Both these dudes are contributing great posts and ideas to the forum of Organics and in particular, the growing of MJ with active biology in living soil systems.

blessings
Eco

 

[GrowingGreen]

A lot of alfalfa, becareful if you over due it you will have some funky new growth. Also neem can burn your plants, oils amplify light on the leaves leading to burnt spots, but use it often indeed recommended before sun has direct contact with plants. Karanja is very similar oil and is cheaper/easier to deal with when it comes to emulsifying, IMHO maybe look into it too. If you use either source the highest quality you can a lot of neem products are filled with inert ingredients. If biology is there you can easily handle 40's. I just germed 6 dozen in high 30s at night and storming 100% germ rate no pre soak just watered in with my microbial inoculant in solo cups. Careful though supplemental lighting might be necessary where you are currently for outdoors. @Ecompost whats your opinion on the last part mate, been meaning to bring it up for discussion. Neem is considered a cooling plant (yin), more efficient when paired with warming (yang) botanicals such as Rosemary, sage, wormwood, patchouli, ginger, turmeric. Balance and diversity is key, neem isn't a cure all but when paired correctly it potentially is.

I didnt end up using the alfalfa brew, i need to read up more, maybe I'll just use a handful instead of 4 handfuls, feeding the soil is what im after, protozoa=nitrogen & carbon correct? If you were to make alfalfa tea ,what would your reasons for brewing it? Advantages & disadvantages?

 

[Ecompost]

I didnt end up using the alfalfa brew, i need to read up more, maybe I'll just use a handful instead of 4 handfuls, feeding the soil is what im after, protozoa=nitrogen & carbon correct? If you were to make alfalfa tea ,what would your reasons for brewing it? Advantages & disadvantages?

the C/N ratio of AlfAlfa is 25:1 mate, in line with the ideal for decay.

The C:N ratio is the mass of carbon to the mass of nitrogen in a particular substance. For example, if we have a C:N ratio of 25:1, this means we have 25 units of carbon to 1 unit of nitrogen. The C:N ratio is important because due to the fact that it has a direct impact on residue decomposition and also nitrogen cycling in our soils.

Our optimum C:N ratio is 24:1 for desired decomposition of our crop residue. The ratio 24:1 is the proper carbon and nitrogen that a microorganism must have in order sustain its health. A microorganism living in the soil has a C:N ratio of about 8:1; this is what they must maintain in their bodies. For optimum health the microbe requires approximately 16 parts of carbon for energy and then 8 parts for maintenance. This is where the ratio of 24:1 comes from.

When selecting our crop and cover crop rotation it is important that we take into consideration the C:N ratio of certain plants that we may want to include in our rotation. This is especially true if the amount of residue on the surface is a concern when planting time comes around. As a rule of thumb, the higher the ratio, the longer it takes for the material to decompose. Likewise, the smaller the ratio is, the more rapidly the plant material will decompose. This also has a direct relationship with the amount of nitrogen that is tied up in the soil that will be available to the next growing plant.

The reason it takes longer for the higher C:N ratio residue to decompose is due to the fact that the further away form 24:1 we get, the more nitrogen the microbe must find from other sources in the soil. The microbes will pull all available nitrogen from the soil that is necessary to reach its optimum ratio of 24:1. This will lead to the excess nitrogen in the soil to be tied up (immobilization) and may lead to a deficit until some microbes die and release the nitrogen (immobilization) and here is lies the essence of Protozoa teas, or other sources of nitrogen are provided via an ionic liquid form for example. Now just because a certain crop has a high C:N ratio, it does not mean it’s a bad thing. It simply means that we must be aware of what is taking place in our soils and be aware that some adjustments may need to be made in our set up to account for the additional nitrogen tie up. Asking yourself if you need Nitrogen, you can do a quick cal based on the area, the previous residue, its C/N and relative NPK by remembering to do the equation BioN=BioC/8. This will highlight any shortfall will decomposition of organic matter takes place.

A crop that has a lower C:N ratio, like legumes, allows the decomposition takes place quickly and the excess nitrogen becomes available in the soil for other growing plants. This is what allows us to begin to consider reducing our nitrogen rates, once we have a well-established, properly managed system, and understand how to utilize that nitrogen. Indoor grows present a great opportunity, since we can readily control humidity and temps which can help us maintain the best conditions for mineralization via decay

As organic growers, we can work to adjust our C:N ratios by blending certain types of crops with others. For example and taken from my wider engagement as a farmer, a fully matured cereal rye plant can have a ratio of up 82:1. But I can blend cereal rye with crops such as hairy vetch that has a ratio of 11:1, this helps pull the soil ratio closer to the optimum 24:1 ratio.

Keep in mind the ratios change as the plant grows, so the C:N ratio in a young plant will be much less as that compared to the plant as it fully matures. Also as we increase our soil health and have in place an established system or cycle, our microbial activity will increase. Meaning that even our higher C:N ratio plants will begin to break down quicker.
When considering a soil blend for Cannabis, try to aim for a blend that offers as close to the 24:1 ratio that will enable the best rates of decomposition for such a short day crop.


Crops or adds rather like Vetch or Alfalfa provide both NPK and Carbon, but more they often add secondary benefits, including but not limited too: increasing plants natural stress resistance, improving growth rates, etc.
Hope this helps
Eco

 

[GrowingGreen]

the C/N ratio of AlfAlfa is 25:1 mate, in line with the ideal for decay.

The C:N ratio is the mass of carbon to the mass of nitrogen in a particular substance. For example, if we have a C:N ratio of 25:1, this means we have 25 units of carbon to 1 unit of nitrogen. The C:N ratio is important because due to the fact that it has a direct impact on residue decomposition and also nitrogen cycling in our soils.

Our optimum C:N ratio is 24:1 for desired decomposition of our crop residue. The ratio 24:1 is the proper carbon and nitrogen that a microorganism must have in order sustain its health. A microorganism living in the soil has a C:N ratio of about 8:1; this is what they must maintain in their bodies. For optimum health the microbe requires approximately 16 parts of carbon for energy and then 8 parts for maintenance. This is where the ratio of 24:1 comes from.

When selecting our crop and cover crop rotation it is important that we take into consideration the C:N ratio of certain plants that we may want to include in our rotation. This is especially true if the amount of residue on the surface is a concern when planting time comes around. As a rule of thumb, the higher the ratio, the longer it takes for the material to decompose. Likewise, the smaller the ratio is, the more rapidly the plant material will decompose. This also has a direct relationship with the amount of nitrogen that is tied up in the soil that will be available to the next growing plant.

The reason it takes longer for the higher C:N ratio residue to decompose is due to the fact that the further away form 24:1 we get, the more nitrogen the microbe must find from other sources in the soil. The microbes will pull all available nitrogen from the soil that is necessary to reach its optimum ratio of 24:1. This will lead to the excess nitrogen in the soil to be tied up (immobilization) and may lead to a deficit until some microbes die and release the nitrogen (immobilization) and here is lies the essence of Protozoa teas, or other sources of nitrogen are provided via an ionic liquid form for example. Now just because a certain crop has a high C:N ratio, it does not mean it’s a bad thing. It simply means that we must be aware of what is taking place in our soils and be aware that some adjustments may need to be made in our set up to account for the additional nitrogen tie up. Asking yourself if you need Nitrogen, you can do a quick cal based on the area, the previous residue, its C/N and relative NPK by remembering to do the equation BioN=BioC/8. This will highlight any shortfall will decomposition of organic matter takes place.

A crop that has a lower C:N ratio, like legumes, allows the decomposition takes place quickly and the excess nitrogen becomes available in the soil for other growing plants. This is what allows us to begin to consider reducing our nitrogen rates, once we have a well-established, properly managed system, and understand how to utilize that nitrogen. Indoor grows present a great opportunity, since we can readily control humidity and temps which can help us maintain the best conditions for mineralization via decay

As organic growers, we can work to adjust our C:N ratios by blending certain types of crops with others. For example and taken from my wider engagement as a farmer, a fully matured cereal rye plant can have a ratio of up 82:1. But I can blend cereal rye with crops such as hairy vetch that has a ratio of 11:1, this helps pull the soil ratio closer to the optimum 24:1 ratio.

Keep in mind the ratios change as the plant grows, so the C:N ratio in a young plant will be much less as that compared to the plant as it fully matures. Also as we increase our soil health and have in place an established system or cycle, our microbial activity will increase. Meaning that even our higher C:N ratio plants will begin to break down quicker.
When considering a soil blend for Cannabis, try to aim for a blend that offers as close to the 24:1 ratio that will enable the best rates of decomposition for such a short day crop.


Crops or adds rather like Vetch or Alfalfa provide both NPK and Carbon, but more they often add secondary benefits, including but not limited too: increasing plants natural stress resistance, improving growth rates, etc.
Hope this helps
Eco

Yes it helps, & I'll read it twice, thrice, just to get a better understanding, i was also gonna use this alfalfa hay as a covercrop as well like some people use straw on the top of the pots, the worms love this stuff

 

[Reeferkief]

I like to introduce decaying wood pieces to my soil in some fashion and same with pre-conditioned biochar either when mixing soils or top dressing. Ideally using those materials, for water retention, indigenous microbes, aeration, and increasing C. Curious of what my C:N is in some of my beds, specially my hugelkultur beds. I assume the biochar I make/use is classified as 100:1 slow pyrolysis wood.
http://www.terrachar.com/uploads/2/3/7/9/23790961/composting_with_biochar.pdf

Alfalfa has a lot of beneficial properties. Trace minerals as well as NPKCAMG, sugars, starches, protein, fiber, triacontanol. Good dynamic accumulator and cover crop, fixes nitrogen. I've heard cases of nematode controlling properties(knot,cysts), good mulch/holds water. I really only use alfalfa as a topdress personally, and usually mixed with other biodynamic accumulators or occasionally made into FPJ. Alfalfa used early in flower can reduce node spacing thanks to triacontanol, it can also be over used and give some mutated growth (I believe that sprouted alfalfa seeds have the most triacontanol available).

 

[GrowingGreen]

I like to introduce decaying wood pieces to my soil in some fashion and same with pre-conditioned biochar either when mixing soils or top dressing. Ideally using those materials, for water retention, indigenous microbes, aeration, and increasing C. Curious of what my C:N is in some of my beds, specially my hugelkultur beds. I assume the biochar I make/use is classified as 100:1 slow pyrolysis wood.
http://www.terrachar.com/uploads/2/3/7/9/23790961/composting_with_biochar.pdf

Alfalfa has a lot of beneficial properties. Trace minerals as well as NPKCAMG, sugars, starches, protein, fiber, triacontanol. Good dynamic accumulator and cover crop, fixes nitrogen. I've heard cases of nematode controlling properties(knot,cysts), good mulch/holds water. I really only use alfalfa as a topdress personally, and usually mixed with other biodynamic accumulators or occasionally made into FPJ. Alfalfa used early in flower can reduce node spacing thanks to triacontanol, it can also be over used and give some mutated growth (I believe that sprouted alfalfa seeds have the most triacontanol available).

I haven't used it yet, the protozoa tea i brewed gave to herb garden that we have, I'll just use it as cover on the pots
Thank you brother

 

[GrowingGreen]

I haven't used it yet, the protozoa tea i brewed gave to herb garden that we have, I'll just use it as cover on the pots
Thank you brother

After tea was givin to herb garden, no damage all is healthy just info

 

[GrowingGreen]

Ok well i transplanted a couple plants
Agent diesel i put in thd 100 gallon
707 truthband i put into 20 gal
Using mycos planted some more covercrop & added more worms watered in using tap water no ph'ing gonna add some hay maybe tonight! Hopefully temps dont get to cold if all is good in 2 days I'll put the rest out there wish me luck

 

[TrubldBreeze]

Ok well i transplanted a couple plants
Agent diesel i put in thd 100 gallon
707 truthband i put into 20 gal
Using mycos planted some more covercrop & added more worms watered in using tap water no ph'ing gonna add some hay maybe tonight! Hopefully temps dont get to cold if all is good in 2 days I'll put the rest out there wish me luck

Agent Diesel is loving life right now! :cool:

 

[GrowingGreen]

Agent Diesel is loving life right now! :cool:

She has some purple stem from when i overdosed her with bio balance, hopefully she well

 

[TrubldBreeze]

She has some purple stem from when i overdosed her with bio balance, hopefully she well

I don't think you can OD on BOX. Ask Eco for sure though.

 

[GrowingGreen]

I don't think you can OD on BOX. Ask Eco for sure though.

This was b4 the product came online, i had sample of new product I believe ! Instead of mixing 1gr i mixed 5 grams =1liter oops lol her new growth is healthy
They're all ready for transplant , close to rootbound!

 

[TrubldBreeze]

This was b4 the product came online, i had sample of new product I believe ! Instead of mixing 1gr i mixed 5 grams =1liter oops lol her new growth is healthy
They're all ready for transplant , close to rootbound!

Bio-Balance Media is a soil drench treatment rich in humates, humic, fulvic, organic acids and potassium (10% K2O, dry weight). I guess maybe Eco or Moto can say for sure. Your plants all look lovely though.

 

[GrowingGreen]

Bio-Balance Media is a soil drench treatment rich in humates, humic, fulvic, organic acids and potassium (10% K2O, dry weight). I guess maybe Eco or Moto can say for sure. Your plants all look lovely though.

You been studying!! Thank you TB!grower error on my part,

 

[GrowingGreen]

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[Ecompost]

Yes it helps, & I'll read it twice, thrice, just to get a better understanding, i was also gonna use this alfalfa hay as a covercrop as well like some people use straw on the top of the pots, the worms love this stuff

yes straw has a high C/N about 80:1 I think, but its good for fungal mass and microbes like it. Interestingly some of the fungus know to grow on Hay for example, is now being used to produce bio degradable packaging materials to replace the polystyrene :-) It can be molded to forms any shape too.
I suspect cowpea, soapbush or flax would be a good partner plant in light of MJ forming symbiosis with Rhizophagus irregularis, even tomato which might be equally economically beneficial for the grower commercially :-)