Patient to Patient transfer of meds/clones?

[Cloud9]

Sorry if this has been asked before...
Is patient to patient transfer of meds and/or clones allowable (legal).
i looked at the state constitution and found this:

(d) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, no person, including a patient or primary care-giver, shall be entitled to the protection of this section for his or her acquisition, possession, manufacture, production, use, sale, distribution, dispensing, or transportation of marijuana for any use other than medical use.

am i wrong to read that as to say as long as you are dealing with legitimate medical marijuana, you are protected to do the following:
for his or her acquisition, possession, manufacture, production, use, sale, distribution, dispensing, or transportation of marijuana
It does not mention "not for profit sales" only "sale", so im not sure they can legislate that away, can they? (havent completely read hb1284)

im not sure if all caregivers have to be patients, so i am strictly talking about patient to patient transfer not anything else.

thanks in advance for the help.

 

[BoCo Buds]

(2) (a) Except as otherwise provided in subsections (5), (6), and (8) of this section, a patient or primary care-giver charged with a violation of the state's criminal laws related to the patient's medical use of marijuana will be deemed to have established an affirmative defense to such allegation where:

(I) The patient was previously diagnosed by a physician as having a debilitating medical condition;

(II) The patient was advised by his or her physician, in the context of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, that the patient might benefit from the medical use of marijuana in connection with a debilitating medical condition; and

(III) The patient and his or her primary care-giver were collectively in possession of amounts of marijuana only as permitted under this section.

This affirmative defense shall not exclude the assertion of any other defense where a patient or primary care-giver is charged with a violation of state law related to the patient's medical use of marijuana.

(b) Effective June 1, 2001, it shall be an exception from the state's criminal laws for any patient or primary care-giver in lawful possession of a registry identification card to engage or assist in the medical use of marijuana, except as otherwise provided in subsections (5) and (8) of this section.


(b) "Medical use" means the acquisition, possession, production, use, or transportation of marijuana or paraphernalia related to the administration of such marijuana to address the symptoms or effects of a patient's debilitating medical condition, which may be authorized only after a diagnosis of the patient's debilitating medical condition by a physician or physicians, as provided by this section.



Remember... 1284 primarily carves out & regulates dips, not caregivers/patients. In fact, dips aren't caregivers anymore, explicitly. Think the old model as that still applies to cg's/patients. And think 'case manager' for significant responsibility.

With the right lawyer, shit, advertise on CL! ;-)

 

[TurboAllWD]

Boco, do you know whos the right lawyer? I know someone that was charged a month after 1284 passed for a patient to patient med transaction. New rules are being drafted on December 9th concerning the definition of signifigant responsibility. I'd like to know if exceptional circumstances for more than 5 patients will be in there. But it looks like the 5 patient limit is about to be enforced along with a ton of other bullshit pretty soon.

Cloud9, you could sign the patient over and then help them or vice versa.

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

Boco, do you know whos the right lawyer? I know someone that was charged a month after 1284 passed for a patient to patient med transaction. New rules are being drafted on December 9th concerning the definition of signifigant responsibility. I'd like to know if exceptional circumstances for more than 5 patients will be in there. But it looks like the 5 patient limit is about to be enforced along with a ton of other bullshit pretty soon.

Cloud9, you could sign the patient over and then help them or vice versa.

Without giving details, can you provide more info on this charge? I know there are lots among us who do business on CL. I personally don't buy meds there but I can see an equipment sale turning into something more.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

There's been a couple buy busts off Craigslist involving pounds, per my lawyer. I doubt they bust the guys "with an extra 1/8 for sale or trade...." but I'd stay off there anyway. Equipment sales are fine, who says you grow weed? Just don't mention marijuana, what can they do?

 

[TurboAllWD]

A friend of a friend told me it was a college guy in Boulder with like 3-4 ounces. I hear ya on the equipment sale, be careful everyone.

 

[kuz]

Sorry if this has been asked before...
Is patient to patient transfer of meds and/or clones allowable (legal).

Its something we are all wondering about. Amendment 20 was meant to allow mmj to be freely exchanged, thats just the way I'm looking at it. With 1284 I will treat it like its illegal though, keep me honest in some way. I wont be advertising on CL or telling 9 news about what I grow.

 

[BoCo Buds]

Boco, do you know whos the right lawyer? I know someone that was charged a month after 1284 passed for a patient to patient med transaction. New rules are being drafted on December 9th concerning the definition of signifigant responsibility. I'd like to know if exceptional circumstances for more than 5 patients will be in there. But it looks like the 5 patient limit is about to be enforced along with a ton of other bullshit pretty soon.

Cloud9, you could sign the patient over and then help them or vice versa.

LOL... yeah brother, not rallying for any particular cat, not at all... just that I know there are multiple 'opinions' out there from the lawyers... even some that I feel are suggesting plans that are really prepping their affirmative defense retainer. Just saying, if you don't like one legal opinion, there are several others out there... some might even say go CL, just do it w proper paperwork.

Each person needs to make a risk assessment & operate as smartly as possible... but I wouldn't go the lawyers for common sense, at least not all of them.

But yeah, know some peeps close to that panel w the dpohe... hadn't called recently but thought that a 'case manager' model is what was coming down the pike... significant responsibility doen't nec need to encompass home-health care equivalents, but rather, if you can offer a log history of your patients interactions, offer truly informed counsel on meds, take serious concern over their well-being & offer professional referral services to other professionals... say food delivery services, networks for social services, dr referrals based on specialties that serve your patients, even logging the products you use as a safe alternative to others out there, even delivering meds despite what 1284 says... all of these items are patient-based & lead to a reasonable argument of taking significant responsibility towards a persons well-being and health. Without your services, their situation & health could be significantly worse off. Think case manager within the social services fields... thought they were moving this way at least.

Peace bro

 

[TurboAllWD]

Damn, I was hoping you had a really good one that I could refer him to. Yeah everything you said sounds somewhat reasonable but this is straight from the dophe.

Is significant responsibility helping the patient with daily tasks, such as cooking, bathing, or other household chores? Is it arranging medical care across several medical providers? What makes a person a primary caregiver?

Sounds to me like their considering the definition including daily care/tasks. I hope they are seriously going to consider the comments by the public and interested parties as they put it because theres no way you can drive around for hours making 5 stops to check in on patients every day while growing, trimming, curing, and PLENTY of other things a caregiver has to do in their garden. lol run on sentence. have my doubts though. hope you're right.

 

[Texas Kid]

Unless you are paying local sales tax in the city that the actual patient to patient sale happens, your breakin the law...all patient to patient sales are taxable transactions, thats the actual trick right there..

Tex

 

[sky high]

Once again....just like the old daze BEFORE med cards.....the Gov't/powers-that-be have to have the manpower to ENFORCE such regulations.... and since they don't.... has ANYTHING really changed over the daze when folks was just dealing pot?

Remember the State tax stamps you were "supposed" to buy (LOFL.."OVER HERE...I'M >>OVER HERE<<!!!)" to prove you paid taxes on the weed you were dealing? Yup...SAME THING. Policy >in place<....but nobody there to follow up and enforce it.

PRIVATE sales will always be just that....and they are no different than the sales that have been made over the years "pre-Med" in that you just DON'T hear of folks getting busted for "tax evasion" on the sale of marijuana.

The actual trick is the same as it always was. >Sell weed. Don't get caught.<

It's only the guys with their names on those State licences that are issued by the DOR who have to worry about "taxes". (and other fun things)

good luck, kids.

s h

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Does ANYONE pay taxes on ANYTHING they sell on craigslist?

Pfft!

 

[Texas Kid]

It's only the guys with their names on those State licences that are issued by the DOR who have to worry about "taxes". (and other fun things)

good luck, kids.

s h

No exactly true, most municipalities are still issuing individual sales tax numbers to patient/caregivers that make direct sales to their patients. Even though most do not do it there are alot that do. Any home base delivery is taxable in the city that the actual transaction happens in. Presumabley if you have 5 patients that your sellin meds to, you are a home base business, not rising to the commercial level requiring a state liscence but still makin money off your home base efforts and as such is taxable. By paying the taxes it also allows you to treat the home base business in a traditional since in which you have expenses and cost that can be applied against your profits to offset meaning you can right off your expenses to operate and that is a super big deal when your spending 20 or 30 grand a year per setup in production expense.

Again the masses do not do this but alot, I mean alot, of people do and it is the actual law for any home base business not specific to mmj at all.

I have to pay taxes on all my personal mmj activities, albeit creative amounts, and am taxed out the ass for my state edibles activity, I have multiple tax numbers privately at a city level and officially with the state, but I run it all as a business and not like a I am havin frequent garage sales or makin nic nacs for the flea market all of which is also taxable stuff anyways.

Again, I am not sayin anybody is comin to get ya but it is the law and the goverment figures everyone owes them tax no matter what. And for sure don't think that no ones doin it because there are quite a few that do.

Technically they could require that all caregivers have a tax number unless they can prove that they give away 100% of the meds to their patient base, other than that everytnig a caregiver does for a patient is taxable. Hell they could assign a value to the caregiver services itself and count that as taxable against the patient...gifts have a value to the government any way you look at it.

Tex

 

[sky high]

Again.... it's the ENFORCEMENT part of the package that is lacking. It's easy to "talk the talk"...but backing it up with manpower and action is completely another thing altogether. With rules/regs in placed they can knack folks AFTER the fact if they bust em... but to investigate a med patient selling bags just isn't something that will EVER be PROFITABLE ENOUGH to be on their radar unless it falls right in their lap.

Supposedly the DOR doesn't have access to the patient Register...or the caregiver list.... so jumping that chasm would be their first obstacle, IMO. Never say never though....

but I DO hear ya. they want that TAX money.

And God knows >WHAT< they can do if folks keep shopping at the dispensaries and giving them the FUNDING to fuck with us.

wot a mess...

s h

 

[kuz]

Is there something I dont know about that if you sell at cost you dont have to collect sales tax?

I dont think I want to file a tax return that inflates service fees to make up for selling at cost, even if thats the law under 1284.

I guess you could provide other unregulated herbs with every mmj sale, charge whatever you want for the other herbs and sell the mmj at cost, since there isnt anybody who can enforce the "cost of cultivation" garbage anyway. Then just lump all the sales as medicinal herbs on the tax forms.

 

[Texas Kid]

What I am talkin about has nothing to do with 1284 or the DOR at all it is simply the rules that apply to all home based businesses and goes along way in trying to prove the legitamacy of what your doing and justification of the income you have and beleive me that is a much bigger deal than you think, i am right in the middle of it right now and its a pain in the ass.

You can definately sell meds at cost and pay no taxes on it but you have to support it with "cost" and "income" on your tax return or through your home based business filing, you can't just say that you sell it at cost and pay no taxes, you have to support it in your tax filing.

If i would have paid all the proper taxes the first couple of years up here i would have been able to make my farm a liscensed outdoor grow facility as well as operate a full on despensary on it due to all the fun "home rule" laws out here..but since i didn't, no way to get covered or grandfathered in had i been doin all the taxes correctely and filed in a timely manner it woukld be a done deal. The income tax part is what trips most up and the government will use it to trip you up for sure.

40% of the DOR rejections right now are because of IRS issues and most of that stems from playing games with taxes that last couple of years.

Remember what brought down Al Capone? not much has changed..

Tex

 

[alf318]

how does that work in mi anyone know as far as i know it's straight to swap with cardholders?

 

[alf318]

any swappers in southwest mi?

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Here's the MI forum link.

Dude, Bra, this is the CO forum. A thousand miles from where you are. Not to be a dick, but please post this in the MI forum.

 

[TyKaycha]

Here's the MI forum link.

Dude, Bra, this is the CO forum. A thousand miles from where you are. Not to be a dick, but please post this in the MI forum.

That wasn't dick of you - I'm guessing they were just enjoying some a bit :smiley_joint: and got lost!