Perfect pH?

[RollinEndough]

Does your extreme altitude have anything to do with the amount of water the plants transpire? Are there any major losses in plant health and yield if I don't swing my pH that low and prefer to keep it steady at 5.7-5.8 throughout the entire cycle, maybe only seeing 5.6 for one week?

 

[PrefersHam]

For the first time ever im running one of my systems at a very low pH. I keep extremely thorough notes (requirement) ill let you know what i personally find.

Peace,


Ham

 

[desertsquirrel]

Does your extreme altitude have anything to do with the amount of water the plants transpire? Are there any major losses in plant health and yield if I don't swing my pH that low and prefer to keep it steady at 5.7-5.8 throughout the entire cycle, maybe only seeing 5.6 for one week?

I am not very big on p boosts, my 25 actual available grow pretty much proved that high p isn't the source of stellar yields. As a result i feel like the source of the high p myth is high pH, effectively locking out the large boost in the first place.

Dropping down to 5.1 or 5.2 at the onset of the swing and again each time it tops-out will allow enough p uptake to carry it through the rest of the swing and as a result your going to see larger, frostier flowers. And thats what it really comes down too. Everything that you can do to push 1-2 more % of thc is going to add to the whole. Our highest testing strain is between 26-27% (I'm pretty sure what is considered the "highest" test ever is at 25.8.) We are trying to push 30 by the end of the year.

 

[tipper619sd]

I am not very big on p boosts, my 25 actual available grow pretty much proved that high p isn't the source of stellar yields. As a result i feel like the source of the high p myth is high pH, effectively locking out the large boost in the first place.

Dropping down to 5.1 or 5.2 at the onset of the swing and again each time it tops-out will allow enough p uptake to carry it through the rest of the swing and as a result your going to see larger, frostier flowers. And thats what it really comes down too. Everything that you can do to push 1-2 more % of thc is going to add to the whole. Our highest testing strain is between 26-27% (I'm pretty sure what is considered the "highest" test ever is at 25.8.) We are trying to push 30 by the end of the year.

wow man sound like something we can all strive for seems possible also

 

[ttystikk]

It can be enlightening to re-read an old post through from the beginning... and in my case, humbling. That RDWC run I was crowing about blew up a week later in a cloud of dead roots, crazy pH swings and obvious signs of root rot brought on by excessive EC. Truth is, I was in over my head with RDWC, and since switching to coco (50/50 hydroton/coco, to be precise) I'm finding things much more stable.

Yet here is where things get interesting; instead of just chucking my whole RDWC setup, I ran it as a base to catch runoff from 5 gallon buckets full of chowmix. To satisfy my own curiousity, I kept tabs on the EC and pH of the water building up beneath the coco buckets and continued to run the recirculating pump and airstones. The water is actually very nice for roots- and several of my ladies' roots are bathing in them, even though they have plenty of coco to grow in.

I switched in part because I had to have something more stable to grow in and because I wanted to add bio-active amendments, which is difficult to do with RDWC. I put stuff like eathworm castings on the coco and run compost teas and pour that on top, and topfeed Canna A & B with more amendments through a very kitbashed irrigation system. This has worked marvelously of late, and yet the plants still seem to be getting something out of the RDWC water underneath.

I've even gone so far as to topfeed the RDWC water and the plants seem to really like it. I know this isn't strictly 'drain to waste', nor is it quite RDWC, but rather something in between. I'm guessing that it works in part because the bennies I'm adding flush through the coco and continually reinoculate the RDWC water, plus nutrients that are washed through tend to be very similar ratios to that given initially.

I'm planning to investigate this approach in more depth in another run soon, and I'll be happy to share the details with anyone interested.

Coco pH; 5.8-6.0
RDWC pH; 5.5-6.0

 

[StonerB]

Don't listen to this guy. pH is definitely something to keep track of.

I never said DONT keep track, I simply said there is no magic number to shoot for. If you know your starting waters PH and you know if what you add is either going to raise or lower it and by how much you can know where your PH is pretty damn close without needing to check it with expensive meters that cause all sorts of headaches. IF there is ever an issue a simple tried and true liquid shaker comes out to see whats happening. They are always calibrated and no they dont let you know exactly what PH but you can tell if you are in range or fucked up. To many commercial growers have lost the instinct that should come with being a farmer and that is what you are a farmer. Do you think most farmers keep track of when there cows are hungry or do they simply have a gained instinct and know what to do and when? If you are running a new line or trying a new product you should only need to test it once or twice to see how it affects your style of growing and how it interacts with the chems already in your mix. My only point is if we spent more time actually knowing our plants instead of fussing on gear and equipment that we would all be better growers. To many fall into the trap of being a robot and not a gardener. You can keep track of every detail in the entire grow and it doesnt mean it will be a sucess. Of course this instinct comes after tracking PH and charting it for a while but after so long you get tired a pulling out the meter only to have it read within a point of your guess. I know someone is gonna disagree but I havnt seen a grow fail ever by being a point or two off. I would rather spend time checking for any pests or cleaning the room. Many commercial grower focus on all the details but forget the big picture that were growing a weed. Why make it so hard?
If im wrong you should be able to go to your hydro store and ask for their "charts" of daily PH, I bet they dont have it because they simply have instinct. More commercial growers need this skill.

 

[RollinEndough]

I always have to adjust the pH of the solution downwards after it's mixed. Even if I knew where it landed after adding in the nutrients to the water I can't possibly guess how much pH down to add to achieve a target number or range. And as the grow progresses the amount of nutrient being added to the solution goes up and requires less tinkering with the pH. So it would be impossible to do on instinct.

 

[StonerB]

I see your point and yes its hard but clearly not impossible. If you know where it landed after adding the nutes its because you are familier with your nutes. If you keep in the back of your mind the concept of alkalinity and how much you start with and how much you add with the nutes it isnt hard to know how much up and or down to add to acheive an acceptable level of PH. You must sacrafice a few bucks and some time to figure these things out, it will help save money and more importantly time later on. A good way to see alkalinity in action is to start with RO water and add a DROP of PH down to it and see what it does. Then raise your ppms by 100 with your nute mix including additives then see how much PH it takes to acheive the same affect as the drop did. It is generally more because as you add nutes you add alkalinity. Keep track of how much more. Then go to 200 ppm and repeat, then 300 and so on. When you reach a high enough ppm you will will see as you stated eventually the nutes themselves will ballance it out. I would suggest to test this all the way untill you are slightly above your desired PPM or EC charting the increase of acid needed to get your desired change each time. If you then repeat this whole process with a PH up at the end of all that pain in the ass testing and charting you will have a great understanding of how nutes affect alkalinity and therefore PH. Once this is masterd as long as you dont change brands of nutes or adjusters you should be able to mix on instinct. If anything new becomes part of your regimine then yes you must figure it all out again however after all the test mixes you should be able to test the PPM or EC right out of the bottle and get a good idea of what it will do to your mix. In essence its all about understanding alkalinty, not PH.

 

[desertsquirrel]

You guys are funny.

 

[PEPE LaPUE]

Yeah the difference between the two charts is what initially prompted me to post this thread. I personally trust the white chart more for several reasons.

First it is an AG industry standard, and found in many text books and published articles where as the colored one is only from a Cannabis source which can almost never be trusted. Also i have used it for years and my experience correlates with the numbers shown.

I am open to differing points of view on the matter however. What do you think?

so what is the best range for dwc ? and whats the best range for coco? theres somany charts... thanxs in advance

 

[desertsquirrel]

well thats obviously debate-able.

But imo 5.4-6.4 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in water cultures and 5.8-6.2 in coco/soilless media. With real soil i would start with a soil and water test.

 

[desertsquirrel]

er... 5.1-6.1 in flower

 

[CelticEBE]

I'm in Coco and I started doing the 5.1 to 6.1 swing in flower and so far my results are pretty amazing. Im running blumats and my rez stays stable so I swing it .2 everyday.

I started doing this because of what you said DS, but now I am thinking I should close that gap up a bit. The only thing I noticed is that a few plants showed some leaf tip burn, which I had assumed was using a dry hammerhead alternative and that it mixed a little hotter than hammerhead. I still have a tendency to believe that was the cause and not the ph swing that I have been giving them.

Any reasoning why a 5.1 to 6.1 in coco would be a bad idea?

 

[Camnibus]

I can taste the solution and tell the ph within +/-.2, it's an instinct thing..... and yes, I'm that good. lmao

 

[PEPE LaPUE]

how do u get the nutrients to stop sticking to bottom of dwc? i check m y ph in the morning and evening.. but i notice i have to mix it .. is there away to keep it from sticking to botttom of bucket? or just keep mixing it...
thanxs in advance oh and whats up with the ph checker sometimes it reads like 1.0 verry low.. and i check it on my tap water still reads low and i change the batterys... but then later it will go back to normal....wth...

 

[desertsquirrel]

I dont understand - what are you using that is settling?

Sounds like you need a new meter, or at the very least a calibration.

 

[desertsquirrel]

I'm in Coco and I started doing the 5.1 to 6.1 swing in flower and so far my results are pretty amazing. Im running blumats and my rez stays stable so I swing it .2 everyday.

I started doing this because of what you said DS, but now I am thinking I should close that gap up a bit. The only thing I noticed is that a few plants showed some leaf tip burn, which I had assumed was using a dry hammerhead alternative and that it mixed a little hotter than hammerhead. I still have a tendency to believe that was the cause and not the ph swing that I have been giving them.

Any reasoning why a 5.1 to 6.1 in coco would be a bad idea?

Frankly i dont see why there would be a problem with swinging in coco. Based on the chart you can pretty much water any where between 4.5 and 7.5 w/o any direct issue. I feel like going to those extremes might lead to future problems with the media, but i see no reason why a reasonable swing would cause any issues.

Can you post some pics? id love to see how it turned out for you.

 

[PEPE LaPUE]

I dont understand - what are you using that is settling?

Sounds like you need a new meter, or at the very least a calibration.

foxfarm nutrients the big bloom over hours settles to the bottom of the bucket so i stir it..

 

[CelticEBE]

I will grab a few tonight and post them. I've thought about starting a thread, but I have been pretty busy with a few projects going on.

 

[StonerB]

I can taste the solution and tell the ph within +/-.2, it's an instinct thing..... and yes, I'm that good. lmao

The sad part is I bet youve actually tried. Can you taste the chloramine that your dumbass thinks can be evaped. From reading your previous posts you clearly arent in the best position to talk shit about experience and instinct. Gain some of either one, then we can talk.