Perfect pH?

  • Thread starter desertsquirrel
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What is the perfect pH?

  • 5.2

    Votes: 4 3.0%
  • 5.5

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • 5.8

    Votes: 42 31.8%
  • 6.0

    Votes: 10 7.6%
  • 6.3

    Votes: 7 5.3%
  • swing

    Votes: 63 47.7%

  • Total voters
    132
S

StonerB

95
18
foxfarm nutrients the big bloom over hours settles to the bottom of the bucket so i stir it..
That sedament is only from the EWC and guanos. It shouldnt really effect the nutrition provided by the Big bloom. However this is why many growers in UC systems like to run sterile nute lines and avoid the mess from organic inputs. Imagine what all that shit is doing to your pumps when you stir it like that. Eventually it will build up and basically cause a system "heart attack" from all that build up. Of course you could use drip clean or something similer but why not just dont add the mess in the first place. The Big bloom doesnt add very much actual nutrition to the foxfarm line as far as NPK goes. It could easily be substituted for a more refined and better filtered EWC tea, or even a simple dose of bennies if you want to stick with a live solution.
 
Camnibus

Camnibus

62
8
That sedament is only from the EWC and guanos. It shouldnt really effect the nutrition provided by the Big bloom. However this is why many growers in UC systems like to run sterile nute lines and avoid the mess from organic inputs. Imagine what all that shit is doing to your pumps when you stir it like that. Eventually it will build up and basically cause a system "heart attack" from all that build up. Of course you could use drip clean or something similer but why not just dont add the mess in the first place. The Big bloom doesnt add very much actual nutrition to the foxfarm line as far as NPK goes. It could easily be substituted for a more refined and better filtered EWC tea, or even a simple dose of bennies if you want to stick with a live solution.

But can you taste it dickhead?:)
 
S

StonerB

95
18
But can you taste it dickhead?:)
No, but once again you have nothing helpfull or informative so I dont really take offense to comments made by a newbie. Dont worry, soon enough you will lose the arrogance, your balls will drop and your plants might grow. Patience grasshopper. I would advise to not taste dickheads no matter what PH you are after.
 
desertsquirrel

desertsquirrel

1,177
83
That sedament is only from the EWC and guanos. It shouldnt really effect the nutrition provided by the Big bloom. However this is why many growers in UC systems like to run sterile nute lines and avoid the mess from organic inputs. Imagine what all that shit is doing to your pumps when you stir it like that. Eventually it will build up and basically cause a system "heart attack" from all that build up. Of course you could use drip clean or something similer but why not just dont add the mess in the first place. The Big bloom doesnt add very much actual nutrition to the foxfarm line as far as NPK goes. It could easily be substituted for a more refined and better filtered EWC tea, or even a simple dose of bennies if you want to stick with a live solution.

Inputs? You know when you make up terms it makes it very easy to spot you. Even with the name change.
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
I'm a swing guy. i use bennie teas with flora series nutes and i honestly don't even touch my ph up or down.

flora series keeps it between 5.8 and 6.2 almost all of the time sometimes it might drop or rise a point or 2 out of that range but i don't mess with it i just let it do its thing.
 
S

StonerB

95
18
Inputs? You know when you make up terms it makes it very easy to spot you. Even with the name change.
What the hell are you talking about? I know you are very well informed but this has been my name since I joined the farm and if you check posting history you will see I clearly dont give a fuck about grammer or spelling. btw "input" is in the dictionary its not made up. I have no problem being corrected when im wrong, and honestly from reading your posts I thought I would never have a chance at correcting you however about any name change you are flat WRONG. If you want to correct any posts of mine that are technically wrong or even if you want to be an english teacher I have no issue. Making claims about a name change that I can be sure NEVER happened you can go fuck yourself. I will stand by my opinions right or wrong and I am not the type to change my name because of something said on here. Please dont take this as me not liking you personally, I have actually learned a lot from your posts. I would expect you to be just as mad if someone accused you of changing names when you know its false. Please do some research before making accusations. I have plenty of people who I disagree with and im sure ive posted shit that can be debated or even proven wrong. None of this is worth changing names over.
 
PEPE LaPUE

PEPE LaPUE

75
8
I'm a swing guy. i use bennie teas with flora series nutes and i honestly don't even touch my ph up or down.

flora series keeps it between 5.8 and 6.2 almost all of the time sometimes it might drop or rise a point or 2 out of that range but i don't mess with it i just let it do its thing.
that shit seems hard and difffic... to make can u buy it made or you gotta buy all that shit and make it....
 
Dizzworth

Dizzworth

112
28
BTW i swing between 5.4-6.3 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in flower.

If you vote swing please post the swing numbers and your media.
So when you mean swing do you down it to 5.1? Or is that what it is at when you mix nutes?
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
There is no "perfect" pH. Biological systems are constantly changing and they do best when the changes in their surroundings best match the changing of their systems. There might be an "optimal" pH--but that will depend on the instantaneous needs of the plant.

Source:

Me (biochem degree)
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

201
63
Come on you could of used ur degree to make that bit more informative and explanatory, no?

And really that answer doesn't apply to the UC specifically or indoor gardening generally, wouldn't you say?
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Come on you could of used ur degree to make that bit more informative and explanatory, no?

It doesn't need to be, and my degree tells me also not to over-explain where simplicity and brevity will do the trick. That doesn't happen often, and so we should revel in it when it does.

However, to oblige you a bit--it has to do with, as I said, the instantaneous needs of the plants. These are constantly changing, as are the concentrations of various compounds. Lower concentration might turn a protein on that makes more--or it might trigger a protein to control gene expression so that instructions will be made to create new proteins to make more of it--or any number of possibilities.

The idea is that it is a moving, breathing, changing thing--there is no "perfect" value. It's also worth noting that for each 1pH unit change--the hydrogen ion concentration changes ten-fold. Its nice to have a pretty number from 1-14, but you must think at the scale of the reaction.

5.3 and 5.4 pH are DRASTICALLY different values on the molecular scale--its not a tiny thing.

Also in a more general sense, this all has to do with entropy--I'll leave you to you own investigations on that note.
And really that answer doesn't apply to the UC specifically or indoor gardening generally, wouldn't you say?

Sure it does, on both accounts. Biochemistry is the same everywhere (generally speaking).

This is just what science can tell you from the beginning, before you explore anything else. Experience can tell you a whole bunch of other cool stuff--but it's not going to make as much sense as it can if you don't start with all the available information.

The information available is that there is no perfect pH value, even if there is an optimal one (and there likely isn't, but rather a collection of "local" optimal values occurring at different times based on the needs of the plant).

Now, maybe a certain pH gives you the best results every time--but its important not to look at that data with foggy glasses on, that try to convince you that must be "the perfect" value--it's just what worked for you in a non-experimental setting if we're being honest.

Instead, it would be better to take more exhaustive data points of all physical values (temp/pressure/humidity) and attempt to correlate these (along with pH values) to success/failure of given plants.

That will get you closer to a "perfect" value--but ultimately the answer is that the perfect value only comes at the perfect time and place, it's not static.
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

201
63
Have you read the thread? The whole reason for it is to make clear that there can be no perfect pH, i am unsure why you are trying to convince me of my premise....

Anyway, i think most agronomists would use the information you are using as an example of microbes changing the rhizosphere and the plant adapting to the enviroment. A process that is almost non-existant in the UC.

Out of curiosity, what part of our million data point per second collection is it that you find to be "non-experimental"?

Check it out: Quantum9.net.
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Have you read the thread? The whole reason for it is to make clear that there can be no perfect pH, i am unsure why you are trying to convince me of my premise....

I replied to your initial question--"what does perfect pH mean to you?"

Anyway, i think most agronomists would use the information you are using as an example of microbes changing the rhizosphere and the plant adapting to the enviroment. A process that is almost non-existant in the UC.

No. I am talking about enzymic concentrations in cellular plant tissue--these swing and change at rates which are nowhere near comparison with how microbes/bacteria grow. You're talking about a system which might have 100,000 copies of 25 different proteins each with a turnover rate of 1000 reactions/second. This ensures that the plants needs will always be different in each instant--ALWAYS. There is likely never a time where all the the values are exactly the same (optimally).

Out of curiosity, what part of our million data point per second collection is it that you find to be "non-experimental"?

Check it out: Quantum9.net.

Wasn't referring to your system--and I've checked it out already, looks fucking amazing for lack of a better way to say it. Instead, I'm discussing what is "the norm" for this community. Those norms have, by and large, brought us to this point in terms of what knowledge we have. My only suggestion was to say that people have been looking "at" this issue rather than "along" it (google C.S. Lewis for what this means).

Without going off on a diatribe--I look at these "norms" throughout this community as being an example of experience based solutions to problems. I look at science as logic based answers to questions.

I only meant to say that I think we'll do our best work when we reconcile the two. Any hopes toward finding a "perfect" pH value completely ignore what we know from science, and that was my only suggestion.
 
redwhiteblue

redwhiteblue

330
28
Swinger here...5.5-6.5

Running bennies so we ph down to 5.5 and let it swing to 6.5 over the course of time.
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Figured I should actually share my process, I was reminded to by redwhiteblue actually--because I previously have done the same thing when running hydro setups (I don't have experience with UC--but am interested).

Strangely enough, I run this same pH range in soil--but I slowly bring it up from 5.5 ---> 6.5 from veg----> flower stepping up about 0.1pH per week.

Does anyone swing their pH values up as flowering progresses in UC as well? Or do you guys sort of rely on hydro's excellence in the area of meeting instantaneous needs of the plant at all times?
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

201
63
5.4 -6.4 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in flower. Veg having a bit more focus on optimal N and flower on optimal p. I believe it is the lower pH in flower that allows me to reach such high yields with such low actual available p.

At any rate thank you for explaining your answer, much more informative...

Are you a phenomenologist as well? lewis is better for the broader community, but it almost seemed like you were leaning more towards merlot-ponty or even hiedegger.

Anyway, Q9 is in the market for a chemist, preferably w a focus in biological extraction, but also a background in water chemistry. If that sounds like you, then please send over an email.
And thanks again.

DS
 
TurboNugs

TurboNugs

76
18
5.4 -6.4 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in flower. Veg having a bit more focus on optimal N and flower on optimal p. I believe it is the lower pH in flower that allows me to reach such high yields with such low actual available p.

DS

GOLD...right here ladies and gents
 
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