Perpetual Growers Please Help

[ttystikk]

After much time, deliberation, research, and of course the helping hand of you guys :) I'm going to keep is smaller and more simple for myself so I don't fuck anything up. Lol.
Ive decided to do a 400 watt veg room and a 4KW flower room.
Four weeks of veg in 5gal pots. And every 4 weeks rotate 8 plants in 8 plants out.

Grantid I only have a 400 watt veg room and a 2KW flower room at the moment. I'll just wait until the last 4 weeks of bloom and I'll start vegging 8 more. Its somewhat of a perpetual. Almost like an engine out of timing. Lol.
Thanks everybody. :)

What your motor is missing is a 600W stage between your little room and the big 4kW, even if you're only filling half your space per cycle. That's a big jump in light intensity they need to be ready for, or the poor things just scorch.

Make the zone under your 600 a big 3 x 3' and that's the cylinder you're looking for.

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

What your motor is missing is a 600W stage between your little room and the big 4kW, even if you're only filling half your space per cycle. That's a big jump in light intensity they need to be ready for, or the poor things just scorch.

Make the zone under your 600 a big 3 x 3' and that's the cylinder you're looking for.

Thats a good idea. I was afraid of shocking them during transition so I kept my lights elevated all the way. I wish my 1KW ballast could run a 600w bulb. Haha. Ultimately I wish I could do a 400, 600, 1000 transition though.

 

[ttystikk]

Thats a good idea. I was afraid of shocking them during transition so I kept my lights elevated all the way. I wish my 1KW ballast could run a 600w bulb. Haha. Ultimately I wish I could do a 400, 600, 1000 transition though.

Don't sit on your ass and wish; get cracking on building it. NOW. The advice I'm giving you is worth the difference between a fruitful hobby and a six figure income.

Just thought I'd spell out the stakes in green and white on this one for ya, brother- some improvements are incremental; this one is instrumental in terms of throughput and ultimate yield. Seriously! If you're still sitting there reading this, you're losing cash... :greedy:

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

Don't sit on your ass and wish; get cracking on building it. NOW. The advice I'm giving you is worth the difference between a fruitful hobby and a six figure income.

Just thought I'd spell out the stakes in green and white on this one for ya, brother- some improvements are incremental; this one is instrumental in terms of throughput and ultimate yield. Seriously! If you're still sitting there reading this, you're losing cash... :greedy:

Very true. I know that every thing I can do to improve living conditions will pay off in the end, some more than others. whether I get an extra gram or even half an extra gram in the end for a certain improvement, extra grams are extra grams. And I like extra grams. Is this gonna be a technique that might bring me an extra few grams? Or will this slow transition really have a noticeable effect on the yield? Thanks.

 

[ttystikk]

Very true. I know that every thing I can do to improve living conditions will pay off in the end, some more than others. whether I get an extra gram or even half an extra gram in the end for a certain improvement, extra grams are extra grams. And I like extra grams. Is this gonna be a technique that might bring me an extra few grams? Or will this slow transition really have a noticeable effect on the yield? Thanks.

The very reason I'm sounding like a drill sergeant is that this one addition can- most likely would- make it possible to stuff those big rooms full of healthy plants already used to powerful hps lighting and ready to explode. No 400W setup can touch that- but you're still going to need it for clones and early veg, so don't pitch that stuff either. It's all about building individualized spaces to best grow each stage of your plants. The job of each stage is to deliver plants ready in every way to take full advantage of the next stage, be it veg or the bloom room.

 

[ttystikk]

As coincidence would have it, I'm updating my own veg as we speak. I'm taking my ebb n flood tables out of service and replacing them with rdwc, the better to prepare my young plants for a life with all the water they'll want at their feet. I realized that the tables actually stunted the very root growth I need most, so out they go!

Thinking out loud about your setup, I like to work backwards from the end result; if you want to fill 5 x 10' you'll need to deliver plants that stuff a 4 x 4' space pretty tightly. That's either a 600 or thouie territory. To get those plants, you'll want a 400W bulb, and finally some t5 for cubes and rooters. This way of thinking will naturally lead you to weak spots, which will help see the gravy train make your house a regular stop...

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

Veg 2 weeks with 400w veg the second 2 weeks with 600w then flower first week or 2 with 600 then bust out the big boy 1000's to finish off bloom? Yay? Nay?

 

[ttystikk]

Veg 2 weeks with 400w veg the second 2 weeks with 600w then flower first week or 2 with 600 then bust out the big boy 1000's to finish off bloom? Yay? Nay?

You're going to get so much more growth, vigor and yield if you hit those girls hard from the very first day in bloom. Once they've been under the 600W for awhile, they'll be ready for the thouies in your bloom room, whereupon they will blow up!

I'm coming at this from the other end; I've been running ebb n flood tables in my veg for years, but now I think that has been a long unrecognized mistake. Why put my plants on a hard surface if I want them to grow roots from the bottom?

So, having recognized the problem, I devised a solution to run my entire veg in RDWC, all except the rooted clones/little moms/bullpen area. I now have not one, but two RDWC in my veg tent; one with 12 sites of 4 gallon square buckets, and the other a six site unit made up of five gallon buckets. Tables in my veg tent have been put out to pasture!

The twelve handles two stages of vegetative growth, and sits in one end of a 4'x8' grow tent. A 130W LED lights the group of smaller ladies. The other side is lit by a 400W hps, which lights the next larger group. A thousand watt MH in an adjust-a-wing lights the six serving as the prebloom veg.

 

[connoisseurde420]

wow I only use my 400w hps until I get my mh bulb. I have vegged under 1k before but not enough to tell the difference in the plants. the summer heat is going to cook me with anymore lol, got to upgrade my cooling already.. tyy u good at spending peoples money for reals...Lmao thanks for the input

 

[ttystikk]

wow I only use my 400w hps until I get my mh bulb. I have vegged under 1k before but not enough to tell the difference in the plants. the summer heat is going to cook me with anymore lol, got to upgrade my cooling already.. tyy u good at spending peoples money for reals...Lmao thanks for the input

Yes, but today I walked into my garden and noticed the Iceboxes were dripping into the RDWC. There they are, automatically removing excess humidity and returning it to the water it came from. No extra noise, no sudden jump in power consumption.

My 4 Tons of cooling will cool 12kW of vertical bare bulb bloom, another 2kW of veg, dehuey, chill RDWC- and then it will cool my house.

 

[mmmdankbuds420]

Do you have any grow journals tyy? Id love to get more personal with your grow.

 

[ttystikk]

The closest I have to a grow log is my inside out thread in the trees forum.

 

[Tank333]

You use Ice Boxes, Tty? The 8" ones? How do you use them? I thought you do bare verts.... are they decently efficent? How many do you use and are they the only thing you use for cooling the air?

I have long considered buying them to use, but haven't wanted to drop the cash on em, plus I haven't ever had a chiller up until now. Which, btw, is working out just fine for now. I've only got 2kw running at the moment, but I think it will handle 4kw okay with how cold the air that runs through the hoods is these days...

 

[ttystikk]

You use Ice Boxes, Tty? The 8" ones? How do you use them? I thought you do bare verts.... are they decently efficent? How many do you use and are they the only thing you use for cooling the air?

I have long considered buying them to use, but haven't wanted to drop the cash on em, plus I haven't ever had a chiller up until now. Which, btw, is working out just fine for now. I've only got 2kw running at the moment, but I think it will handle 4kw okay with how cold the air that runs through the hoods is these days...

Funny you should ask; my air handler consists of either a muffin fan or a canfan at the top sucking from near cooling level, blowing straight down into an 8" Icebox, and then continuing straight down through a 3' piece of 8" rigid ducting. Beneath that is the collector bucket for my RDWC- so water condensation falls straight back into my RDWC, managing the room's humidity by responding to the water temperature in the chiller circuit.

Raising my chiller water temperature raises effective dewpoint (look it up, it's important) and therefore humidity levels. Thus, I do not connect my air handlers into the climate control unit's 'humidity' output, because it's pointless.

I can very comfortably run two of these vertical duct style air handlers in a room with two bare bulbs or four sealed and vented fixtures. So far, I'm getting more powerful lighting from the bare bulbs at half the wattage.

In winter, I'm sure I can squeeze in 50% more lighting than I mentioned above. Note that these numbers are not the same as system capacity, only the air handler's capacity to remove heat from the room. It is definitely possible to have plenty of chilling power available, yet fail to keep the space cool because the air handler lacks the capacity to remove heat fast enough.

 

[faithful49er]

do you mean weeks or months? if i vegged my bluedream for 2 months id only fit - bluedream per 1k. i veg bluedream for 3 weeks indoor and right now week 3 flower they are 6ft tall. imagine vegging for 2 months.

sounds like if u veg under t5 u will have better built plants shorter squattier sorry about the spelling ive been growing the last 10 years lol this on line thing is new but my bd would b huge to if I fallowed this guys regiment and soft top as soon as u plant them that helps also

 

[faithful49er]

do you mean weeks or months? if i vegged my bluedream for 2 months id only fit - bluedream per 1k. i veg bluedream for 3 weeks indoor and right now week 3 flower they are 6ft tall. imagine vegging for 2 months.

I would recommend 2 weeks veg on any sativa dominate plant with a 1000 watt light with25 plants per 4x4 or 5x5 witch ever u prefer but this whole perpetual garden on a small scale is new to me but sounds fun

 

[mrfixit]

I'll add a combination suggestion/caveat to all of the above.

Like TTY I run a multistage (4-ish) continuous grow based on around a 2-3 week cycle.
As others have warned, pests/infection are a very real consideration with continuous grows and something I have had to do battle with myself, including a pervasive PM infection currently...
In the future, if I have the money and can redesign, I would do a minimum of 2 isolated areas for veg and flower (even via tents) to help deal with any issues with less potential "impact". And with that setup in flower, you could use a flip box to keep ballast costs in line and keep cooling a bit easier/cheaper.

 

[ttystikk]

I'll add a combination suggestion/caveat to all of the above.

Like TTY I run a multistage (4-ish) continuous grow based on around a 2-3 week cycle.
As others have warned, pests/infection are a very real consideration with continuous grows and something I have had to do battle with myself, including a pervasive PM infection currently...
In the future, if I have the money and can redesign, I would do a minimum of 2 isolated areas for veg and flower (even via tents) to help deal with any issues with less potential "impact". And with that setup in flower, you could use a flip box to keep ballast costs in line and keep cooling a bit easier/cheaper.

Each of my stages gets its own space, and most of them get their own room precisely for this reason. I highly recommend using isolation as part of your IPM strategy, this is critical in a multistage perpetual environment since the nasties can hop from one train to the next so easily.

Clones get their own tent. Rooted clones in my 'bullpen' have their own room. Three stages share my veg tent- this will change as I build out my prebloom veg room- but each are in their own corner. Each bloom room is separate from the rest so that each can have its environment customized for its inhabitants, and of course this helps keep problems isolated as well.