PH A Basic explanation

[MIMedGrower]

Oh I thought that's what he said it doesn't affect ph.

The comment suggests using it as a buffer. To buffer an acidic medium you need it to raise ph.

A mix of dolomite and calcitic lime is probably the best buffer. Calcitic for short term fast acting and dolomite for long term and to add some mag to balance out the calcium.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just quick thought on that. I'm guessing it's inert because it does not break down/dissolve into water and therefore no benefit to the plant or ph control. The sodium would be a draw back but possibly used for aeration?

 

[Aqua Man]

The comment suggests using it as a buffer. To buffer an acidic medium you need it to raise ph.

A mix of dolomite and calcitic lime is probably the best buffer. Calcitic for short term fast acting and dolomite for long term and to add some mag to balance out the calcium.

That was my impression. The faster it becomes available the faster it affects ph. Ideally dolomite should be used unless addressing a ph issue. Which imo usually has a cause behind it and not lack of buffering capacity.

 

[MIMedGrower]

That was my impression. The faster it becomes available the faster it affects ph. Ideally dolomite should be used unless addressing a ph issue. Which imo usually has a cause behind it and not lack of buffering capacity.

Domite takes longer to activate and lasts longer while calcitic limestone is fast acting and used up fast.

And the more i think about it if azomite does not raise ph even though it contains calcium is it even breaking down fast enough for plants to actually utilize its micronutrients?

 

[Frankster]

Principles of buffering:

HA ⇌ H+ + A−
OH− + HA → H2O + A−
OH− + H+ → H2O
Once the acid is more than 95% deprotonated, the pH rises rapidly because most of the added alkali is consumed in the neutralization reaction.

Buffer capacity is a quantitative measure of the resistance to change of pH of a solution containing a buffering agent with respect to a change of acid or alkali concentration. It can be defined as follows:

What's essentially happening throughout the growing phase, is that your "buffer" is always getting smaller and smaller, (as acids are deprotonated) so if you build in a "reserve" buffer, during the mixing phase (when soil is created) you should have more overhead, while still maintaining excellent pH values. (an offset) that can absorb and bind all the broken down acids, so that the soil pH remains healthy, and constant.

This is how I understand it anyhow.

 

[Frankster]

No the faq i copied above says it does not raise ph so it isnt a buffer just a source of trace elements.

Wouldn't "trace elements" act as a buffer, especially if it's alkaline? Seems to me it would work over the long haul, gradually.

 

[Aqua Man]

Wouldn't "trace elements" act as a buffer, especially if it's alkaline?

If they are soluble yes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Principles of buffering:

HA ⇌ H+ + A−
OH− + HA → H2O + A−
OH− + H+ → H2O
Once the acid is more than 95% deprotonated, the pH rises rapidly because most of the added alkali is consumed in the neutralization reaction.

Buffer capacity is a quantitative measure of the resistance to change of pH of a solution containing a buffering agent with respect to a change of acid or alkali concentration. It can be defined as follows:

What's essentially happening throughout the growing phase, is that your "buffer" is always getting smaller and smaller, (as acids are deprotonated) so if you build in a "reserve" buffer, during the mixing phase (when soil is created) you should have more overhead, while still maintaining excellent pH values. (an offset) that can absorb and bind all the broken down acids, so that the soil pH remains healthy, and constant.

This is how I understand it anyhow.

I have never needed to add more lime to any bagged or baled potting soil mix. With a proper sized pot and good fertilizing practice it lasts the whole way to finish every brand i tried and every time in my experience.

While your math is correct you are not using tangible examples. Peat has a ph in the 4’s and it is buffered up to the 6’s with lime that has a ph of 8.0.


That is the only ph buffering we need to know for soil.


For hydro and irrigation systems and an inert medium then acid and alkalinity calculations would determine how to keep water and nutrient mixes in range.

 

[Frankster]

Domite takes longer to activate and lasts longer while calcitic limestone is fast acting and used up fast.

And the more i think about it if azomite does not raise ph even though it contains calcium is it even breaking down fast enough for plants to actually utilize its micronutrients?

A buffer is essentially prepared in two ways

• mixing a large volume of a weak acid with its conjugate base
• mixing a large volume of weak base with its conjugate acid

 

[Frankster]

Just quick thought on that. I'm guessing it's inert because it does not break down/dissolve into water and therefore no benefit to the plant or ph control. The sodium would be a draw back but possibly used for aeration?

correct.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Wouldn't "trace elements" act as a buffer, especially if it's alkaline? Seems to me it would work over the long haul, gradually.

The company says it does not effect ph.

So my question now is can it even be broken down in time to be useful the way its marketed?


Of course outside in the ground it will eventually break down and may leach calcium.

 

[Aqua Man]

The company says it does not effect ph.

So my question now is can it even be broken down in time to be useful the way its marketed?


Of course outside in the ground it will eventually break down and may leach calcium.

That's why I think. It's of no real value to ph, plants or soil except maybe aeration?

 

[MIMedGrower]

A buffer is essentially prepared in two ways

• mixing a large volume of a weak acid with its conjugate base
• mixing a large volume of weak base with its conjugate acid

Ok but I had to look up conjugate acid.


I tried to link this back to gardening. This is getting to deep. I do not have a chemistry degree.

 

[MIMedGrower]

That's why I think. It's of no real value to ph, plants or soil except maybe aeration?

Yeah im saying its a bullshit ag marketed commercial waste product now that i read their marketing.

 

[Frankster]

If they are soluble yes.

How do we define a buffer?
“A buffer is an aqueous solution that RESIST changes in pH upon the addition of an acid or a base”.

I don't think it necessarily has to be "dissolved" in water all at once, it can happen gradually. I could even "bind" things out of the water, and that would act as "buffer." or at least have a buffering "effect"

Solid state Buffers:
In general, a zwitterion along with the appropriate salt is used since the pair must be insoluble in the organic reaction mixture. Unlike the organic soluble buffers, each buffer pair will set a fixed value of the relevent ionisation parameter, regardless of the quantities of each form used.

 

[Aqua Man]

How do we define a buffer?
“A buffer is an aqueous solution that RESIST changes in pH upon the addition of an acid or a base”.

I don't think it necessarily has to be "dissolved" in water all at once, it can happen gradually. I could even "bind" things out of the water, and that would act as "buffer."

Solid state Buffers:
In general, a zwitterion along with the appropriate salt is used since the pair must be insoluble in the organic reaction mixture. Unlike the organic soluble buffers, each buffer pair will set a fixed value of the relevent ionisation parameter, regardless of the quantities of each form used.

Nope if it does not dissolve how can it affect ph?

 

[Frankster]

Nope if it does not dissolve how can it affect ph?

Yea, that's how I've always understood it also, but I'm beginning to think with soil, it might be a little different, because there are a lot of chemical reactions going on in there.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yea, that's how I've always understood it also, but I'm beginning to think with soil, it might be a little different, because there are a lot of chemical reactions going on in there.

Soil doesn't have a ph only a potential. Ph is the measurement of an aqueous solution based on h+ ions in the water. Therefore only something that is soluble can affect ph. So if something in the soil is soluble it can affect ph.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Soil doesn't have a ph only a potential. Ph is the measurement of an aqueous solution based on h+ ions in the water. Therefore only something that is soluble can affect ph. So if something in the soil is soluble it can affect ph.

Well put to tie all that info together.

 

[Frankster]

Nope if it does not dissolve how can it affect ph?

Here's an interesting read on this subject: It involves enzymatic formation of acidic by-products, and pH buffers.

They can be added to the reaction mixture in 2 different forms: organic soluble and solid-state (insoluble). The aim of this chapter is to present the practical methods for utilisation of these novel buffers with biocatalysts in organic media.

This is some cutting edge shit....
Solid state buffers

These buffer pairs exist as crystalline solids which exchange H+ with Na+ (in control of aH+/aNa+) or accept/donate H+ and Cl- together (in control of aH+.aCl-) in order to control the protonation state of the enzyme. In general, a zwitterion along with the appropriate salt is used since the pair must be insoluble in the organic reaction mixture. Unlike the organic soluble buffers, each buffer pair will set a fixed value of the relevent ionisation parameter, regardless of the quantities of each form used. Also, they can be used in a number of solvents since their ionisation is independent of the nature of the solvent.

The usefulness of a range of solid state buffers for control of pH+pCl (e.g. Lys/Lys.HCl) has been shown for immobilised subtilisin in hexane and toluene (2). Similarly, pH-pNa solid state buffer pairs have recently proved successful for reactions in both polar and non-polar solvents with different forms of the same enzyme

the introduction of solid state Na+/H+ exchange buffers. These materials, insoluble in the reaction medium(?), effectively function as chemical pH-stats giving precise control of an enzyme protonation state throughout the reaction pathway even were acidi

I'm suggesting that azomite might represent a "shotgun" approach to doing just that...
If techniques like this could be "custom tailored" for cannabis, the results could be phenomenal