PH Drift

[MIMedGrower]

Yes that what I mean citric breaks down in about 12hrs IME in a well aerated system. I have never seen a hydro grower with the issue of ph not drifting but I have seen numerous ph drifting to much (instability) so for our use we don't have the issue of short and long term. Just the issue of ph drifting to fast. Which will be 1 of 2 things. Weak acid ph down like citric... Or inadequate buffer to start with creating stability issues. Because of lack of buffering. Basically you can't add enough acid to keep it stable without a ph crash or extremely low ph

I will have to read about it again as im using some gh ph down now. 1 ml to get 5ml foliage pro and 2.5ml protect back down to 6.2ph.

Havent compared not using it yet. With this mix my ph is above 8.0.

My well water is .3 ec and 7.8-8.0 ph out of the tap.

 

[Aqua Man]

I will have to read about it again as im using some gh ph down now. 1 ml to get 5ml foliage pro and 2.5ml protect back down to 6.2ph.

Havent compared not using it yet. With this mix my ph is above 8.0.

My well water is .3 ec and 7.8-8.0 ph out of the tap.

GH will work. It's a mix and mostly phosphoric acid, with citric and I think a little nitric acid.

 

[Aqua Man]

A lot depends on the alkalinity of the water to start. If you keep some of your feed or make an extra gal. and aerate it and check it 24 hrs later for hydro you want about 0.2 ph drift in 24 hrs. For soil it makes no difference. Also in soil contrary to what ppl say all acids are fine. It's the ph that will kill the microbes. It's not the acid that kills them... When using strong acids it's always best to dilute 10-1 before applying to the res. Ppl think of acid as burning stuff but it's the concentration of the acid that burns based on the ph it creates. The more concentrated the less needed to adjust ph.

 

[MIMedGrower]

GH will work. It's a mix and mostly phosphoric acid, with citric and I think a little nitric acid.

Its phosphoric acid, citric acid and mono amoniam phosphate.


I have only ever mixed for immediate use so i cant speak of res stability.

What i dont know is if i really need it. After some time a couple of my plants are slowly lowering in ph. I lowered the ph down dose on those plants and the runoff came back higher.

But i admit i am afraid to feed to high out of range. If it stayed under 7 i would likely leave it alone.

 

[Aqua Man]

Eg your stomach acid is mostly hydrochloric. Which ppl will be like oh that shit will eat your skin... Well it's all dependant on concentration not the actual source. Citric acid can if you can find it high enough concentration.

 

[MIMedGrower]

A lot depends on the alkalinity of the water to start. If you keep some of your feed or make an extra gal. and aerate it and check it 24 hrs later for hydro you want about 0.2 ph drift in 24 hrs. For soil it makes no difference. Also in soil contrary to what ppl say all acids are fine. It's the ph that will kill the microbes. It's not the acid that kills them... When using strong acids it's always best to dilute 10-1 before applying to the res. Ppl think of acid as burning stuff but it's the concentration of the acid that burns based on the ph it creates. The more concentrated the less needed to adjust ph.

Im actually countering the alkalinity added from the silica. Just my water with a standard nute dose is usually in the mid sixes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Eg your stomach acid is mostly hydrochloric. Which ppl will be like oh that shit will eat your skin... Well it's all dependant on concentration not the actual source. Citric acid can if you can find it high enough concentration.

I like to squirt citiric acid from a fruit peel and light it on fire. :-)

What were we talking about??? ;-)

 

[Aqua Man]

Its phosphoric acid, citric acid and mono amoniam phosphate.


I have only ever mixed for immediate use so i cant speak of res stability.

What i dont know is if i really need it. After some time a couple of my plants are slowly lowering in ph. I lowered the ph down dose on those plants and the runoff came back higher.

But i admit i am afraid to feed to high out of range. If it stayed under 7 i would likely leave it alone.

Yeah the ammonium in soil will lower the ph as plants uptake it. It's a source of nitrogen and the plants use an extra process to uptake it releasing h+ ions in the process and lowering soil ph.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yeah the ammonium in soil will lower the ph as plants uptake it. It's a source of nitrogen and the plants use an extra process to uptake it releasing h+ ions in the process and lowering soil ph.

So there is science to their recipe.

 

[Beachwalker]

Eg your stomach acid is mostly hydrochloric. Which ppl will be like oh that shit will eat your skin... Well it's all dependant on concentration not the actual source. Citric acid can if you can find it high enough concentration.

I've been using citric acid for over a year now thanks to a recommendation from the A-man, works like a charm, I like it better than the GH product, buy a big bag eight bucks last forever ..I use it in my iced tea too!✌

 

[Aqua Man]

So there is science to their recipe.

Absolutely but the citric acid is a waste and filler imo. No need. Also ammonia sources in hydro are not usually favorable as most generally lack the denitrifying bacteria. Even in soil I believe it's recommended to stay below 5% ammonia sources. But with that said there is not nearly enough in the ph down to have much of impact on either soil or hydro. So science yes but gimmick? I feel yes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I've been using citric acid for over a year now thanks to a recommendation from the A-man, works like a charm, I like it better than the GH product, buy a big bag eight bucks last forever ..I use it in my iced tea too!✌
View attachment 983985

Thats a great money saving tip!

Plus maybe in soil the weaker shorter lasting acid would not lower my medium ph over time.

That was why i stopped using ph down in the first place.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've been using citric acid for over a year now thanks to a recommendation from the A-man, works like a charm, I like it better than the GH product, buy a big bag eight bucks last forever ..I use it in my iced tea too!✌
View attachment 983985

Yup soil and citric are no issue and work well. Hydro not so much

 

[MIMedGrower]

Absolutely but the citric acid is a waste and filler imo. No need. Also ammonia sources in hydro are not usually favorable as most generally lack the denitrifying bacteria. Even in soil I believe it's recommended to stay below 5% ammonia sources. But with that said there is not nearly enough in the ph down to have much of impact on either soil or hydro. So science yes but gimmick? I feel yes.

And surely like you said manufacturing price.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thats a great money saving tip!

Plus maybe in soil the weaker shorter lasting acid would not lower my medium ph over time.

That was why i stopped using ph down in the first place.

Also lower your ammonia sources.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Also lower your ammonia sources.

Pure blend pro has mostly amonium. But the foliage pro is mostly nitrate.

Amonium may lower ph but when plants uptake it the medium ph rises.

Its all balance. We all need to find the balance for our situation.

 

[Aqua Man]

Pure blend pro has mostly amonium. But the foliage pro is mostly nitrate.

Amonium may lower ph but when plants uptake it the medium ph rises.

Its all balance. We all need to find the balance for our situation.

Hmm when plants uptake it should lower the ph of the soil. Also microbe respiration will lower pH and can lower soil o2. That's why I never was a fan of dumping a shit ton of teas. They are great as an innnoculant once they bacteria are there they will find a home and population will adjust to food source ( usually given by plants in nature) but if you add to much to often they can also have negative effects.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Hmm when plants uptake it should lower the ph of the soil. Also microbe respiration will lower pH and can lower soil o2. That's why I never was a fan of dumping a shit ton of teas. They are great as an innnoculant once they bacteria are there they will find a home and population will adjust to food source ( usually given by plants in nature) but if you add to much to often they can also have negative effects.

The Role of Nitrogen Fertilizer on Soil pH | Brookside Labs

www.blinc.com

Found this real quick and it has good info.

Its usually urea we are talking about and it apparently breaks into amonium n and carbonate so it doesnt acidify the medium much.

Its amonium n that causes acidity apparently.

 

[Aqua Man]

The Role of Nitrogen Fertilizer on Soil pH | Brookside Labs

www.blinc.com

Found this real quick and it has good info.

Its usually urea we are talking about and it apparently breaks into amonium n and carbonate so it doesnt acidify the medium much.

Its amonium n that causes acidity apparently.

Yes. 100%

 

[Aqua Man]

The Role of Nitrogen Fertilizer on Soil pH | Brookside Labs

www.blinc.com

Found this real quick and it has good info.

Its usually urea we are talking about and it apparently breaks into amonium n and carbonate so it doesnt acidify the medium much.

Its amonium n that causes acidity apparently.

Did not know urea broke down with some carbonate... Hmmm. Also in solution which is what plants take up ph will kinda shift between ammonium and ammonia. High ph more in the form of ammonia lower more ammonium. Doesn't mean much in terms of plants but microbiology may be affected. Ammonia is far more toxic to life than ammonium