pH lockout! Can't flush it down! Please Advise

[shades]

Hey guys.

I'm towards the end of flower. It's a sativa from a bag of seeds I had collected over the months from high quality strains that got accidently pollenated. It's specimen #19. It's going on week 11 of flower. Microscope shows closer 1%-5% amber trichromes, still a lot of clear trichromes and plenty of cloudy ones but hard to tell under the blurple lights that are over powering my white microscope leds. It's in a 3.5L pot (50/50 pete/vermiculite). The TDS reading on it isn't skyrocketing as I would have thought with the pH lockout and actually shot down after I flushed 6~ liters of water that was pHed down to 5 or 4.8~ with vinegar since I have no KOH or anything more proper to lower the pH. After putting 6 L down the pipe the pH is still not really going down. How much water do I need to flush it completely?? Is it an opportunity to just flush it now? I wasn't planning on flushing as it was my first grow and several sources say that one should consider not flushing and observing the complete life cycle for a first time grow. I wasn't planning on flushing any of the plants anyway since I read a couple studies saying that flushing was not statistically significant when it came to increasing terpine content. Sure there was a couple of percentage points different but not enough to warrant doing it (unless you're trying to save money on nutrients I guess). I was going to try to harvest it when it was 15-30% amber but with this pH issue I'm not sure how to proceed.

 

[Beachwalker]

Recommend shutting your blurples off next time you use your white microscope leds

Not exactly sure what you're asking regarding pH, but next time I would use perlite instead of Vermiculite for sure, that much, or in my opinion any vermiculite keeps The Roots too wet and can lead to root related issues

 

[JWM2]

Sadly I think you’ve managed to ruin your grow medium. Of course the ec will be lower when you’ve flushed all the beneficial bacteria, micro and macro nutes out of it. Good luck.

 

[shades]

Sadly I think you’ve managed to ruin your grow medium. Of course the ec will be lower when you’ve flushed all the beneficial bacteria, micro and macro nutes out of it. Good luck.

What would have caused the grow medium to get 'ruined'?

 

[shades]

Recommend shutting your blurples off next time you use your white microscope leds

isn't that going to fuck with my light cycle? I don't have a fancy tripod so it's several minutes per cola to get it into focus. I seem to have much better luck blocking the light from the grow light by cupping my hand around the microscope. I also try t otake a look right at lights out with my room light sitll on for another 15~ minutes or so.

Not exactly sure what you're asking regarding pH, but next time I would use perlite instead of Vermiculite for sure, that much, or in my opinion any vermiculite keeps The Roots too wet and can lead to root related issues

Other than moisture retention any reason to go with perlite over vermiculite? Doesn't vermiculite contain more plant absorbable silica?

Dr. Bruce Bugbee recomends 50/50 peat/vermiculite and it's what they're using over at Arizona state university and it's the reason why I went with that medium for this first grow of mine.

 

[JWM2]

What would have caused the grow medium to get 'ruined'?

Hard to say which is worse. Flushing the nutrients out or flushing it with very acidic water. Either one can ruin a grow and you doubled down and did both.

Number one rule of soil growing is don’t throw the kitchen sink at it when something goes wrong.

I’d be interested in what your plants looked like and what made you think you needed to take drastic measures to correct it. Meters and books don’t grow cannabis. Let the plants tell you when they are unhappy.

 

[growsince79]

Hey guys.

I'm towards the end of flower. It's a sativa from a bag of seeds I had collected over the months from high quality strains that got accidently pollenated. It's specimen #19. It's going on week 11 of flower. Microscope shows closer 1%-5% amber trichromes, still a lot of clear trichromes and plenty of cloudy ones but hard to tell under the blurple lights that are over powering my white microscope leds. It's in a 3.5L pot (50/50 pete/vermiculite). The TDS reading on it isn't skyrocketing as I would have thought with the pH lockout and actually shot down after I flushed 6~ liters of water that was pHed down to 5 or 4.8~ with vinegar since I have no KOH or anything more proper to lower the pH. After putting 6 L down the pipe the pH is still not really going down. How much water do I need to flush it completely?? Is it an opportunity to just flush it now? I wasn't planning on flushing as it was my first grow and several sources say that one should consider not flushing and observing the complete life cycle for a first time grow. I wasn't planning on flushing any of the plants anyway since I read a couple studies saying that flushing was not statistically significant when it came to increasing terpine content. Sure there was a couple of percentage points different but not enough to warrant doing it (unless you're trying to save money on nutrients I guess). I was going to try to harvest it when it was 15-30% amber but with this pH issue I'm not sure how to proceed.

Pictures or it didn't happen.

 

[shades]

Hard to say which is worse. Flushing the nutrients out or flushing it with very acidic water. Either one can ruin a grow and you doubled down and did both.

Number one rule of soil growing is don’t throw the kitchen sink at it when something goes wrong.

I’d be interested in what your plants looked like and what made you think you needed to take drastic measures to correct it. Meters and books don’t grow cannabis. Let the plants tell you when they are unhappy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't peat moss & vermiculite considered a soil-LESS medium?

 

[shades]

Pictures or it didn't happen.

my current cellphones touchscreen is fucked and can't use that phone to take photos. I'll have to dig up an old android with a 2 or 5 mp camera on it, but it won't be for at least 3 hours until I can get one found and charged up. I'll try to post microscope pictures too.

 

[shades]

my current cellphones touchscreen is fucked and can't use that phone to take photos. I'll have to dig up an old android with a 2 or 5 mp camera on it, but it won't be for at least 3 hours until I can get one found and charged up. I'll try to post microscope pictures too.

I took photos of the plant in question along with microscope shots.

I also included pictures of four vegging plants that seem to be suffering from sort of deficiency and I'm not sure what. The lighting situation in the closet could stand to be better but the flowering light isn't actually trash.

Again for reminder the flowering plant #19 is on it's 11th week of flowering.

Also the pH has been the lowest it's been in 3 or 4 fertigations at 6.52 (which I know is still kinda high)

The last handful of photos didn't make it through due to a limit but all 4 plants seem to be suffering from the same deficiency. It's not appearing on new growth so that helps but I don't know if I should just cut off the damaged leaves or how to manage that.

 

[shades]

Pictures or it didn't happen.

pictures are uploaded.

 

[shades]

bump?

 

[HaveApuff]

Just curious, why would you be so worried at the end of flower to be trying so many different things when really all you had to do was simply ph your water (without anything else added), and just continue your regular watering cycle, finally finishing with an almost dry pot? The plant is finishing up and regardless of what you were trying to do with ph readings in your runoff, the plants life is coming to an end and fan leaves should start to change as the plant is maturing to age... and this will even increase faster when flushing as the plant is not getting as much anymore... the whole idea of the flush? Looking at the height of that plant it better be close to finishing, otherwise you are going to need to make a whole in the ceiling If a is plant was doing fine, then don't over complicate the issue. Stick with the basics and remember, less is best!

 

[shades]

Just curious, why would you be so worried at the end of flower to be trying so many different things when really all you had to do was simply ph your water (without anything else added), and just continue your regular watering cycle, finally finishing with an almost dry pot? The plant is finishing up and regardless of what you were trying to do with ph readings in your runoff, the plants life is coming to an end and fan leaves should start to change as the plant is maturing to age... and this will even increase faster when flushing as the plant is not getting as much anymore... the whole idea of the flush? Looking at the height of that plant it better be close to finishing, otherwise you are going to need to make a whole in the ceiling If a is plant was doing fine, then don't over complicate the issue. Stick with the basics and remember, less is best!

My pH meter recently broke and I'm waiting on a replacement. I mean I guess I could just chop it down but I'd rather it get to maximum ripeness which is really close if not there already. The stem is starting to get really woody, I just wanted to know why the pH started to shoot up on that one plant and not any other ones. It seems to be doing find with the regular nutes/water that I have been giving it. The pH of the nutes is appropriate so I'm assuming it's still absorbing nutes but there's some sort of reaction happening that's causing the run off to be closer to 7 in pH.

I just don't want this to happen in the future and wanted to know how to avoid it happening again.

 

[HaveApuff]

Just as a point of understanding, where do you gauge your plants testing with your microscope? Seeing how tall these plants have grown means that light distribution was certainly not evenly distributed (from top of your plant to the bottom in this case), so expecting to see matured trichomes anywhere else except near the top would not be surprising considering how high the lights had to be (and you can see it in the picture that it is all the way up to the ceiling). At this point I would be testing more to the top and compare as you come down your plants. Some growers who grow like this remove the top as it matures first, then drop their lights again to give more light to the lower half of the plant while it remains in flower and flush for another week or two, mainly to help mature the bottom buds a little more...…This kind of grow could have played a role as one may have finished up even earlier than the others depending on how your light(s)were arranged during the grow. This one plant, you were so worried about, could simply be finishing a bit sooner due to its position from your lights, or just the genetics of that seed, or a difference in how the clone started out. To many variables to say why one is a little different. Each plant is different, haven't you noticed?

 

[shades]

Just as a point of understanding, where do you gauge your plants testing with your microscope? Seeing how tall these plants have grown means that light distribution was certainly not evenly distributed (from top of your plant to the bottom in this case), so expecting to see matured trichomes anywhere else except near the top would not be surprising considering how high the lights had to be (and you can see it in the picture that it is all the way up to the ceiling). At this point I would be testing more to the top and compare as you come down your plants. Some growers who grow like this remove the top as it matures first, then drop their lights again to give more light to the lower half of the plant while it remains in flower and flush for another week or two, mainly to help mature the bottom buds a little more...…This kind of grow could have played a role as one may have finished up even earlier than the others depending on how your light(s)were arranged during the grow. This one plant, you were so worried about, could simply be finishing a bit sooner due to its position from your lights, or just the genetics of that seed, or a difference in how the clone started out. To many variables to say why one is a little different. Each plant is different, haven't you noticed?

Just as a point of understanding, where do you gauge your plants testing with your microscope? =>

I don't understand the question exactly or at all actually.



expecting to see matured trichomes anywhere else except near the top would not be surprising considering how high the lights had to be (and you can see it in the picture that it is all the way up to the ceiling) =>

The plant was lifted out of the blurple grow light and under my room's white light /just for the photo/ as was told to ditch the blurple for diagnosis. Said tent is visible in the left of the photo in question.



Some growers who grow like this remove the top as it matures first, then drop their lights again to give more light to the lower half of the plant while it remains in flower and flush for another week or two, mainly to help mature the bottom buds a little more...… =>

yes exactly what I am shooting for this grow. The 9 plants I have didn't have as even of a canopy as they do now that I have 6 of them topped. The max difference was maybe 4-8". Now the max difference is no more than 3".



Each plant is different yes, those differences seem to be forked into two different cultivars. Out of my 20 plants, #19 is the 2nd youngest and the one in question here.

 

[Homesteader]

In the future, if you are trying to lower the pH just add a few handfuls of unbuffered peat. Peat is around 4.5 pH and a few handfuls tops dressed and scratched in will bring a soil mix down a level without causing a mess with other things.
I don't think the flushing is going to do all that much except make a soggy soil. What are people afraid you are going to flush out? Nitrogen? I would avoid vinegar though.

 

[shades]

In the future, if you are trying to lower the pH just add a few handfuls of unbuffered peat. Peat is around 4.5 pH and a few handfuls tops dressed and scratched in will bring a soil mix down a level without causing a mess with other things.
I don't think the flushing is going to do all that much except make a soggy soil. What are people afraid you are going to flush out? Nitrogen? I would avoid vinegar though.

I completely forgot peat is acidic. I should have probably added more of that than the vermeculite which I noticed was lacking (probably closer to 60peat/40verm instead of the 50/50 I originally was shooting for). I'm sure it'll be coming down in a few days though. I don't have RO water to put through just water that's from the tap and no KOH to lower the acidity. I can choose between vinegar and lemon juice ;(

The mystery though is what would have caused it to rise in the first place so that can be looked out for in the future...

 

[Homesteader]

The mystery though is what would have caused it to rise in the first place so that can be looked out for in the future...

Hard to tell I guess but plants will stop push out root exudates towards the end of flower. These exudates are very acidic and attract microbes to break down and supply nutrients back to the root hairs.
I wouldn't worry about pH so much once the plant is in control, just follow its lead.

 

[Flexnerb]

I completely forgot peat is acidic. I should have probably added more of that than the vermeculite which I noticed was lacking (probably closer to 60peat/40verm instead of the 50/50 I originally was shooting for). I'm sure it'll be coming down in a few days though. I don't have RO water to put through just water that's from the tap and no KOH to lower the acidity. I can choose between vinegar and lemon juice ;(

The mystery though is what would have caused it to rise in the first place so that can be looked out for in the future...

You've got excess N antagonizing something, if not, maybe more than one something.

We dont know what fertilizers you are using....what have you all put in this monstrosity?