Plant Spacing and Light Layout

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nughit

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Yeah Im am bit concerned that the plants on the 90" side will only have 15" of clearance on their back sides. I am hoping that the plants will be growing towards the light and the backsides wont strech as much as the other sides getting blasted with light. I like the idea of 2 rows of plants and 2 row of lights as well. 60" x 60" square. I hadn't thought of that.

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Doing it that way would give me 30" of clearance from each each wall versus 30" and 15" Im going to have to carefully consider how to lay everything out. I don't want to run outta room.
 
Widowmaker

Widowmaker

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View attachment 63798
This is the standard layout and it isn't going to fit in a 6'x9' room.
I have a Liquid Lumens water cooled fixture and it has by my measurements a ~14% loss of lumens going through the glass and water. I’ve moved my plants slowly closer to the lights and have not determined what is too close yet. There’s another website Rollitup I think that BuddlyDoRight (sp?) said he’s got Fresca Sol and operates between 8”-14” with his light. So you can move your plant and lights much closer together but that causes another issue and that is the light then doesn’t have much distance to spread out to cover the plant. Also I believe the curved glass and water causes the light to be a more focused beam. See below. The lamp with the box around it is the water jacket.
View attachment 63810
These are measurements that I want to retake but you know how it is there is never enough time. I will measure them again before building a new room or saying that its a real issue.
I maybe stuck growing bushes because the light spread may not be there for trees. The Fresca Sol guys have a proto type that they can put two big lamps in one tube but that is starting to get real pricey to have two 1000W at each location.
I love that my room doesn't get hot. Get more heat from my 4 T5 lamp fixture than my 1000W HPS.

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nughit

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After laying it out on paper with 2 rows of plants and 2 rows of lights I get a 120"x120" square. That is with keeping plants 60" on center with center bulb being 30" up from the middle of the triangle base. When I lay it out the way I originally had it I get the 60"x90" dimension which would fit in my 10x10 tent. Damn am I over thinking this?
 
Widowmaker

Widowmaker

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mrhappy,
How close have you been able to get your lights to your plants without stress?
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nughit

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Ok I see the plants are on 40" centers. I will have to remember that when I decide on the final lay out.
 
M

MedicalINFO

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WidowMaker,

I received your message with the link, Perfect...thanks again

Can you do a layout for me like the first drawing you did, except swap the lights and with plants leaving 11 plants 10 1000w and 4 corner 600's. If this will fit, I think it would be the best use of the space and 4 ton ac. YOUR SKILLS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

p.s. I can't send messages yet because I'm a NEWB on this site :)
 
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mrhappy

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widowmaker, thanks for the help and info, yeah i noticed that it just wasnt very bright above or below the froesca sols. I am surprized at that amount of lumen loss. I have just moved 5 Papaya's that are 18" tall and bushy as hell, into the 4 light diamond patern veg. for 30 more days to grow into trees. i have heat issues and have had the temps upto 86-88F with 1000ppm co2. I think i am seeing heat scorch, as the laves are folding up a bit. I have my plants about 12" away from the lights right now because they are going from a less intense 1000 w horizontal stage 1 veg. Is there a such thing as too much light? why do my plants look worse after i introduced them to 4k watts?
is 88F too hot with co2?
 
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mrhappy

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what is the most effiecient 4) 1k watt setup for a 6x9 room? i have tried the classic diamond shape (4 lights for 5 plants) and got shadeing in the corners and along the back side of all plants but the center one. (really missing those 600's)
I get better coverage when i pull the 2 end lights further away from the plants to cover closer to 180 degrees on each side. I only have a 6x9 room so if i diamond them and pull the end lights back a bit i get good coverage, but i am just eyeing it and dont even have a meter. any advice amigos?
 
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OregonMeds

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I know you didn't ask me, but please, allow me...

With only 4k you shouldn't really run this system, it's not the best use of your resources. Grams per watt will be very low. You should do something like this maybe instead:
[Youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sa1IIgmtqY[/Youtube]
Or there are many other ways to yield better when you have a small number of lights but this just isn't it. This no longer is really practical or economical and is just an experiment or to play around if you run that few, which if you're going to experiment I'd say whatever you do make sure you have one plant with 4k right where it's supposed to be on it and watch it grow. Any other plants screw them light wise don't arrange the lights away from the center plant for them, they just get what they get in the best way you can manage.

It would probably actually be best to put a ring of small plants around one big one, growing in a different style to keep them so they don't get so big they shade half , maybe scrog them vertically so it's a flat circle around the whole thing then you aren't even growing anything that gets shaded. VSCROG around a tree basically with the whole chiller and recirc and not lacking in water circulation or air and everything else. The outer plants wouldn't need bins necessarily they could be in a ring of 6" pipe or something like that as in other grows if you wanted. That way you could fit more thin plants in a ring of pipe with water circulating and air at ea plant site. Don't ask too much from small air or water pumps if you add more demand than dd's setup like more air stones because of more plant sites add more supply. I know I said that a couple times but it's important to get everything equal or better or you are really really wasting your time.
 
Widowmaker

Widowmaker

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OM, Appreciate your angle and since this thread is about plant spacing and lighting layout your view is necessary and its important but I can only grow six plants so I'm going for max weight per plant not max per watt. Just my thing.
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nughit

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Thanks widow maker. Those drawings kick ass. Thanks again.:rasta2::damnhippie::smiley_joint:
 
Widowmaker

Widowmaker

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FYI, See below some measurements made on a bare Hortilux 1000W HPS. Notice how in a short distance brightness changes quickly. For reference a clear winter day in So Cal is 105K LUX. The brightest light comes from the very center of the light. I don’t use the meter much anymore, its easier to use a tape measure. To get good lumens measurements the sensor has to be pointed exactly at the center of the lamp or you get a low reading and it’s just too much trouble.

At the middle of the lamp the glass is at its largest diameter and tapers down from there. My guess is this is done to spread the light out. Passing thru more glass probably causes changes to the direction as well. The bare bulb is probably the best for coverage of our plants from head to toe when hung vertically.
View attachment 63901
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easypleasie

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I'm digging all the light info! Makes more sense to keep plants under 4' with the 40" centers.
 
billy liar

billy liar

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if you do 5 plants 4 bulbs the one in the middle will yield ferociously and the other 4 will yield extremely well and i only have krusty buckets to go on for that data..i did that pattern for years..it works fine.
I hope your right northone, I'm about to do 5 plants 4 lights lol.
decided would be better for me, to help manage temps etc. (dont want to end up having to turn a light off to bring temps down) even though it would be cheaper for me to set up with 5 lights.
Peace
BL
 
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mrhappy

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help, I moved my 18" papayas from my 4k horizontal room to my new 4k vert setup. THe plants look terrible and i am wondering if there is a such thing as too much light too fast? some of the leaves are starting to brown from the middle out and new growth has stoped. can anyone help me find whats going on? this is my first attempt at vertical grow, i think i have the spaceing wrong as i am learning more every day? should i be surrounding the center plant with bulbs or space them out as they are now? they are 48"-50" apart now. i only have 6'x8' room size,that is all the space i have too, so is growing huge 5 trees feesable in that area? I am trying for a goal of 10 pounds eventually per harvest as that would match my traditional horizontal great grows of years past. thanks so much. I am very grateful for all the good advice.

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billy liar

billy liar

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Northone, the "I hope your right" comment was made in jest more than anything.
I do Have enough experience of my own to know what is viable for me, and dont ever hold anyone responsible for my grows not working out. LOL
I have done a few grows with very simlar methods to what peeps here are doing, some good some bad. and only blame myself for the bad ones
Thanks alot mate:happy
Peace
BL
 
M

MedicalINFO

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Widow Maker I love you! I am so stoked. I'l keep you posted
 
Widowmaker

Widowmaker

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mrhappy, No disrespect but You may want to move this to the infirmary forum, you may get more attention there. I’m no expert on such things. I experienced something like this and thought it was a fungus and sprayed with a neem oil product called K+Neem that curled my new leaves but the problem went away. The K is Potassium; just in case it is a Potassium deficiency.
Your lights are shooting right at the little girls. It may be too much to start out like that. Going from 1K to 4K is big and the light is hitting the plants in new places. The stress may be too much. You could raise your lights so they can grow into the light. Feel your pain, best of Luck!!
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