Please help here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

threatco · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
WHAT?? 5 WHAT A DAY? shit bro, i think the real money its in the water not in the hydroponic system.
but let me be honest. if the hydroponic system can give organic cannabis and faster than soil, i will definetly look at it. yesterday i spend almost 300 dollars from unemployment lol in crafty+ just to smook my first fresh cannabis the best way i can.

You can build a good hydro setup as an ebb and flow system for a 3x3 tent. Use anything as a flood table. kids pool, or short long under-the-bed totes. Whatever can cover that space and give you about 8-12 inches of depth. A table/platform/frame to put it on. Can build it from spare wood if you want. Then throw any old tote underneath it as the "reservoir". (maybe food-grade if you are a plastiphobe) buy a submersible pump for 10-15$, an extra outlet timer 10$, an aquarium air pump / tubes / air stone for 20-30$. Some 1/2" and 3/4" ID hose for 20$ And ebb/flow drain kit 20$. big bag of Hydroton clay 20$. A sheet of rockwool cubes 4$.

Whip it all together, and you got a stupid proof hydroponic system you can throw in any tent that was growing soil before. For me works just as good as a slightly more complicated/expensive rdwc system.

The obvious drawback is height loss having a raised growing media. But 7-foot high tent with LED should be perfect for it.

This system lets you flood the roots for a set time with nutrients, then most of the time it drains off into the reservoir and your roots can breathe in all the lovely oxygen until the next flood. This kind of air/nutrient exposure control really makes it shine, as well as being cheaper and easier to build/run.

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
WHAT?? 5 WHAT A DAY? shit bro, i think the real money its in the water not in the hydroponic system.
but let me be honest. if the hydroponic system can give organic cannabis and faster than soil, i will definetly look at it. yesterday i spend almost 300 dollars from unemployment lol in crafty+ just to smook my first fresh cannabis the best way i can.

You don't want organics in hydro bro bad combo. But growth is stupid.

Tbh organic and inorganic nutrients are the same. Organic nutrients are broken down by microbes into inorganic salts. Just like I use. The difference is the soil sustainability organic is better for the environment because they are broken down slowly into inorganic nutrients. Inorganic nutrients are already in an available form and ready for uptake. That's where stuff like runoff can polite streams etc because it over loads them with available nutrients. Plants don't know the difference it's the soil health that is affected. Now with organics the bacteria do produce some extra chemicals and stuff and have a symbiotic relationship with the plants some of which may affect flavor but I can't say I have seen and scientific proof. That's not to say there isn't any though

This was my old hydro system grow box. I just tore it down and built a room and doing soil to find some mother's then I'm prob going coco but possibly back to RDWC.

My last grow dec 6 is the first pic. Jan 2 is the second. Just over 3 weeks of growth

OldManRiver · May 15, 2020

I think worrying about organic soil for growing weed in pots, where you toss the soil every crop is pointless. I use organic approaches to build soil in my outdoor beds, where I use the soil year after year. I do that to build the soil structure, not its fertility. When you use organic approaches for nutrient delivery, it's pretty difficult to manage the decrease of available nitrogen that you want when the plants enter flowering. Not impossible, but its way easier to change ferts that are delivered in soluble form.

As Aquaman suggests, it makes no sense to focus on organic techniques if you are using hydro. GH nutes have everything the plant needs.

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

OldManRiver said:
I think worrying about organic soil for growing weed in pots, where you toss the soil every crop is pointless. I use organic approaches to build soil in my outdoor beds, where I use the soil year after year. I do that to build the soil structure, not its fertility. When you use organic approaches for nutrient delivery, it's pretty difficult to manage the decrease of available nitrogen that you want when the plants enter flowering. Not impossible, but its way easier to change ferts that are delivered in soluble form.

As Aquaman suggests, it makes no sense to focus on organic techniques if you are using hydro. GH nutes have everything the plant needs.

Couldn't agree more

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

OldManRiver said:
I think worrying about organic soil for growing weed in pots, where you toss the soil every crop is pointless. I use organic approaches to build soil in my outdoor beds, where I use the soil year after year. I do that to build the soil structure, not its fertility. When you use organic approaches for nutrient delivery, it's pretty difficult to manage the decrease of available nitrogen that you want when the plants enter flowering. Not impossible, but its way easier to change ferts that are delivered in soluble form.

As Aquaman suggests, it makes no sense to focus on organic techniques if you are using hydro. GH nutes have everything the plant needs.

ok so no hydro for now, i suppose that i'm going to start doing compost teas (need to learn about this), i'm an organic freak. Honestly the first thing i was worried about before growing cannabis it was that.
but seems that its not easy after all. i have 2 plants organic and 2 more in just soil that can receive GH nutes. that plants is my sickest plant, basically the living soil allow me use water from seed to harvest, thats what they said. What GH combination can i use with this plant to save her.

i don't i have the required space for hydro i think

@Aqua Man looking at your pics. man that looks asome, just 3 weeks and that size. scary for my but sounds really good to get your harvest faster

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
ok so no hydro for now, i suppose that i'm going to start doing compost teas (need to learn about this), i'm an organic freak. Honestly the first thing i was worried about before growing cannabis it was that.
but seems that its not easy at alla. i have 2 plants organic and 2 more in just soil that can receive GH nutes. that's mi sickest plant, basically the living soil allow me use water from seed to harvest.

i don't i have the required space for hydro i think

@Aqua Man looking at your pics. man that looks asome, just 3 weeks and that size. scary for my but sounds really good to get your harvest faster

Bro I hate to be a stick in the mud since all the advertisement of organic being healthier and all but it's all bullshit. Organic lately has even shown in more than a few cases to have high levels of heavy metals. Now that's not to say all organics by any means. It's all about getting quality clean sources with either organic or inorganic.

The plants don't care one bit and it makes no difference in the source of nutrients. Like I said all organic nutrients are broken down into inorganic form before the plant takes them up. For instance organics are broken down by bacteria decomposing organics produce ammonia/ammonium and bacteria break it down into nitrites then another bacteria break nitrites down in to nitrates. That's just denitrifying bacteria. There are many bacteria that process organics in to inorganic nutrients so the plants can uptake the nutrients. In the end a nitrate is a nitrate the plant doesn't care where it started from as they are the same.

The difference is as I said before the the soil health and environmental impact. Nitrates are easily leached away into ground water and streams. Where are organics before they are broken down do not. Organics are like slow release fertilizer inorganic are like instant fertilizer. But a nitrate is a nitrate, calcium is calcium, potassium is potassium and all of those are same no matter the source it's derived from.

For some reason all the marketing BS because it's a huge industry seems to have convinced people it's healthier and it's absolutely bullshit. Now it's healthier for the soil sustainability. But your just throwing your soil out after so it makes no sense to try and grow for soil sustainability.

Tldr organic and inorganic nutrients are the same in the end to a plant. No different whatsoever and organics do not provide a healthier, safer or cleaner product by any means. It's a marketing gimmick now. When it started it was conveyed as healthier for the soil... Somehow this was translated by ppl as healthier for them and the industry sure didn't do a dam this to set this straight. Infact the took advantage and allowed people and even encouraged this ideal... It's all about the $$$

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Bro I hate to be a stick in the mud since all the advertisement of organic being healthier and all but it's all bullshit. Organic lately has even shown in more than a few cases to have high levels of heavy metals. Now that's not to say all organics by any means. It's all about getting quality clean sources with either organic or inorganic.

The plants don't care one bit and it makes no difference in the source of nutrients. Like I said all organic nutrients are broken down into inorganic form before the plant takes them up. For instance organics are broken down by bacteria decomposing organics produce ammonia/ammonium and bacteria break it down into nitrites then another bacteria break nitrites down in to nitrates. That's just denitrifying bacteria. There are many bacteria that process organics in to inorganic nutrients so the plants can uptake the nutrients. In the end a nitrate is a nitrate the plant doesn't care where it started from as they are the same.

The difference is as I said before the the soil health and environmental impact. Nitrates are easily leached away into ground water and streams. Where are organics before they are broken down do not. Organics are like slow release fertilizer inorganic are like instant fertilizer. But a nitrate is a nitrate, calcium is calcium, potassium is potassium and all of those are same no matter the source it's derived from.

For some reason all the marketing BS because it's a huge industry seems to have convinced people it's healthier and it's absolutely bullshit. Now it's healthier for the soil sustainability. But your just throwing your soil out after so it makes no sense to try and grow for soil sustainability.

Tldr organic and inorganic nutrients are the same in the end to a plant. No different whatsoever and organics do not provide a healthier, safer or cleaner product by any means. It's a marketing gimmick now. When it started it was conveyed as healthier for the soil... Somehow this was translated by ppl as healthier for them and the industry sure didn't do a dam this to set this straight. Infact the took advantage and allowed people and even encouraged this ideal... It's all about the $$$

yep, im convinced of that. your 100% right and i can see now, i been reading a lot, organic or inorganic, makes no difference once you give your plants what they need to trhive, you won't feel anything diferent when you smook. and all i want to have lots of weed for myselft. i undertand what you said and makes sense, calcium is calcium, nutes are nutes, (the difference is the way you deliver those nutes to the plant).. right?
lookiing

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
yep, im convinced of that. your 100% right and i can see now, i been reading a lot, organic or inorganic, makes no difference once you give your plants what they need to trhive, you won't feel anything diferent when you smook. and all i want to have lots of weed for myselft. i undertand what you said and makes sense, calcium is calcium, nutes are nutes, (the difference is the way you deliver those nutes to the plant).. right?
lookiing

Exactly... The difference is because inorganic nutrients are immediately available you can create toxicity and toxicity and high phosphorus are what makes shit tasting weed. So you need to feed light more food doesn't make bigger plants and that's the problem most people have. Light drives growth you balance the food to the growing needs. No different than people supplements only help is you are deficient and excess usually causes problems.

Foutwenty71 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Sure by all means. I'm not really a organic guy and new to soil so not sure how much help I can be but no harm in asking man.

I do have a decent understanding of soil and microbes though. More from a hydroponic side of things but very similar

@ Aqua man ... This is a hot topic here. same questions i was asking yesterday except i didnt get the leaf damage this guy got because as soon as i saw the plant growth come to a halt i flushed ...eventually changing out all my soils including my lady in bloom....twice on some of them...having said that, I was using all organics and after reading so much on here i went and purchased Cal Mag from Bloom City...I incorporated it into all my plant's and never thought twice about it...Tomatoes and peppers really liked it...but growth came to a standstill in 2 of my little ladies....Hell i even added a 1/4 of it to my microbial aerated tea

Foutwenty71 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
A flush with enzymes (which are produced by bacteria) will help loosen the bonds of nutrients and make it easier to flush out of the soil of excess nutrients. The CEC can be reset in a sense while ridding it of excess nutrients and restoring the ph by doing so.

The enzymes will help the soil until the microbiology can reestablish itself.

There will be permanent damage to the plants and yields will suffer. The longer he waits the more it will impact his grow.

Honestly unless you have done your research and understand how organics and soil work it's not the best place to start in growing unless you have someone helping you who does.

To many people just blindly follow information on the net with no real understanding how these interactions work.

If there is one rule with growing cannabis that is there are no rules and many options or solutions to each problem. There is no one right way to treat an individual problem it will change and depends on each grow and circumstances.

For instance this calcium deficiency... Not gonna fix it by adding more calcium.

This is no longer a true organic grow and therefore it requires some outside the box thinking. Just because a flush never worked for you does not mean it does not work for his circumstances.

im about done in here. The test should be able to help determine the cause.. maybe it's ph maybe it's not. Once he finds out I'm sure he can find a way to fix it.

wish i woulda seen this thread a few days ago

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

Foutwenty71 said:
@ Aqua man ... This is a hot topic here. same questions i was asking yesterday except i didnt get the leaf damage this guy got because as soon as i saw the plant growth come to a halt i flushed ...eventually changing out all my soils including my lady in bloom....twice on some of them...having said that, I was using all organics and after reading so much on here i went and purchased Cal Mag from Bloom City...I incorporated it into all my plant's and never thought twice about it...Tomatoes and peppers really liked it...but growth came to a standstill in 2 of my little ladies....Hell i even added a 1/4 of it to my microbial aerated tea

@Foutwenty71 my biggest problem its the soil, let me show you somenting here.
this is the life of this plant. pic by pic
@Aqua Man look at this https://im_gur.com/a/pN91jTf delete the underscore

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

I think it's a combination of microbes and soil. You have periods of toxicity followed by lockout. Usually it's a nutrient build up but this appears to be an availability issue due to organic ferts and a crash in microbes.Do you have any soil left of the last bag you used? And hopefully some of the first bag?

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

If it's anything like oldmanrivers I'm betting it's the same with a ph around 7.5. maybe the first bag was from a better batch

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
I think it's a combination of microbes and soil. You have periods of toxicity followed by lockout. Usually it's a nutrient build up but this appears to be an availability issue due to organic ferts and a crash in microbes.Do you have any soil left of the last bag you used? And hopefully some of the first bag?

i have some with me, not much but i have. im going to buy another brand, im looking for a good one that i can buy in the store.

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
i have some with me, not much but i have. im going to buy another brand, im looking for a good one that i can buy in the store.

Promix HP is a solid choice. I'm giving sunshine 4 a try it looks good and seen a few growers having good results and cheaper the slurry test after adding vermiculite was 6.1 using RO for the test but yesterday after watering with my tap water (130ppm) it came out a perfect 6.5

Always test the soil before using. You can do a slurry with RO to find the true ph of the soil. Then do a slurry with source water to see ph with the source water used.

If you have some soil for shits and giggles can you mix it 1-1 with RO then stir well and let sit for 20 min then test the ph. I'm just curious. My sunshine 4 was 6.1 with vermiculite added that raised it a point or 2

Foutwenty71 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Bro I hate to be a stick in the mud since all the advertisement of organic being healthier and all but it's all bullshit. Organic lately has even shown in more than a few cases to have high levels of heavy metals. Now that's not to say all organics by any means. It's all about getting quality clean sources with either organic or inorganic.

The plants don't care one bit and it makes no difference in the source of nutrients. Like I said all organic nutrients are broken down into inorganic form before the plant takes them up. For instance organics are broken down by bacteria decomposing organics produce ammonia/ammonium and bacteria break it down into nitrites then another bacteria break nitrites down in to nitrates. That's just denitrifying bacteria. There are many bacteria that process organics in to inorganic nutrients so the plants can uptake the nutrients. In the end a nitrate is a nitrate the plant doesn't care where it started from as they are the same.

The difference is as I said before the the soil health and environmental impact. Nitrates are easily leached away into ground water and streams. Where are organics before they are broken down do not. Organics are like slow release fertilizer inorganic are like instant fertilizer. But a nitrate is a nitrate, calcium is calcium, potassium is potassium and all of those are same no matter the source it's derived from.

For some reason all the marketing BS because it's a huge industry seems to have convinced people it's healthier and it's absolutely bullshit. Now it's healthier for the soil sustainability. But your just throwing your soil out after so it makes no sense to try and grow for soil sustainability.

Tldr organic and inorganic nutrients are the same in the end to a plant. No different whatsoever and organics do not provide a healthier, safer or cleaner product by any means. It's a marketing gimmick now. When it started it was conveyed as healthier for the soil... Somehow this was translated by ppl as healthier for them and the industry sure didn't do a dam this to set this straight. Infact the took advantage and allowed people and even encouraged this ideal... It's all about the $$$

slightly off topic but not really...somebody told me what he just said 20+ years ago( Nitrogen is Nitrogen and the plant don't care where it comes from ect.....almost word for word..lol) when i had reservations about using miracle grow and i took her word for it. Well i been growing giant Halloween Pumpkin for all my kids every year and now for my grand kids. A couple of years ago i tried the all organic approach and I barely made the 100# mark when 300#"s is easily obtainable(any bigger and they are a problem to move)...after this years experience with growing indoors I'm starting to think that way about my ladies. It's real easy to screw up an organic grow in pot's...as i just found out

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Foutwenty71 said:
slightly off topic but not really...somebody told me what he just said 20+ years ago( Nitrogen is Nitrogen and the plant don't care where it comes from ect.....almost word for word..lol) when i had reservations about using miracle grow and i took her word for it. Well i been growing giant Halloween Pumpkin for all my kids every year and now for my grand kids. A couple of years ago i tried the all organic approach and I barely made the 100# mark when 300#"s is easily obtainable(any bigger and they are a problem to move)...after this years experience with growing indoors I'm starting to think that way about my ladies. It's real easy to screw up an organic grow in pot's...as i just found out

Yeah there are ppl that can do it with ease and get great results but those ppl are not the begginer growers.

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Promix HP is a solid choice. I'm giving sunshine 4 a try it looks good and seen a few growers having good results and cheaper the slurry test after adding vermiculite was 6.1 using RO for the test but yesterday after watering with my tap water (130ppm) it came out a perfect 6.5

Always test the soil before using. You can do a slurry with RO to find the true ph of the soil. Then do a slurry with source water to see ph with the source water used.

If you have some soil for shits and giggles can you mix it 1-1 with RO then stir well and let sit for 20 min then test the ph. I'm just curious. My sunshine 4 was 6.1 with vermiculite added that raised it a point or 2

@Aqua Man i will not use RO water anymore bro, that water it's not meant to be for organics grows i almost sure of that. The reason i'm almost convinced is that RO water its the only thing in common that all my plants share and all of them have the same exact thing.

Besides the happy frog Soil with a bad calibration of Ph (i just order the soil Ph meter). one thing to note its that RO water give you a straight 6.5 every time and when i've add anything to the water i doble check. (always).
I mean, RO water it's really good for plants that are NOT in living soil, RO water very good when you have complete control of what you are doing with the nutes you use.

But for a guy like my with 4 plants being in differents types of soil mixtures 2/2 it's hard to do differentes solutions when you don't know what are doing or what soil its the best one and things like that lol.

I honestly stop searching about diseases or deficiencies or whatever the plant have, they anyway going to drink all that water and i can't do anything about that at this stage of the grow. at least i know that its not a pest or bugs or septoria or someting like that.

Now i have to think in the next feed, that feed going to be decisive for the future of my plants. i can fail in that feed, three of them are in week 7 of flower and the GG#4 it's just trying to survive in week 3 of flower.
i'm going to let the plants dry a bit, remove the damage leaves and feed with specific solutions for the ones in living soil and the others in soil.
(AND WHAT TYPE OF WATER DO I NEED TO USE) im taking my time to research what is the best way to feed in each one, i have 4 days left, next feed the 19
look and read what this guys are experiencing with RO water.

---STILL LOOKING FOR ADVICE--- THANK YOU...

Living Organic Soil, RO water, and pH. What's the deal here?

Reverse Osmosis system is working at peak performance, pH from faucet at a near perfect 7.0 and a TDS/PPM of under 20 Have suffered deficiencies in previous grows and overwhelming consensus seems to say LED + RO water means additional Ca/Mg is a must So I bought this stuff...

www.thcfarmer.com

[/QUOTE]

Aqua Man · May 15, 2020

Myster21 said:
@Aqua Man i will not use RO water anymore, that water it's not meant to be for organics grows i almost sure of that. The reason i'm almost convinced is that RO water its the only thing in common that all my plants share and all of them have the same exact thing.

Besides the happy frog Soil with a bad calibration of Ph (i just order the soil Ph meter). one thing to note its that RO water give you a straight 6.5 every time and when i've add anything to the water i doble check. (always).
I mean, RO water it's really good for plants that are NOT in living soil, RO water very good when you have complete control of what you are doing with the nutes you use.

But for a guy like my with 4 plants being in differents types of soil mixtures 2/2 it's hard to do differentes solutions when you don't know what are doing or what soil its the best one and things like that lol.

I honestly stop searching about diseases or deficiencies or whatever the plant have, they anyway going to drink all that water and i can't do anything about that at this stage of the grow. at least i know that its not a pest or bugs or septoria or someting like that.

Now i have to think in the next feed, that feed going to be decisive for the future of my plants. i can fail in that feed, three of them are in week 7 of flower and the GG#4 it's just trying to survive in week 3 of flower.
i'm going to let the plants dry a bit, remove the damage leaves and feed with specific solutions for the ones in living soil and the others in soil.
(AND WHAT TYPE OF WATER DO I NEED TO USE) im taking my time to research what is the best way to feed in each one, i have 4 days left, next feed the 19
look and read what this guys are experiencing with RO water.

---STILL LOOKING FOR ADVICE--- THANK YOU...

Living Organic Soil, RO water, and pH. What's the deal here?

Reverse Osmosis system is working at peak performance, pH from faucet at a near perfect 7.0 and a TDS/PPM of under 20 Have suffered deficiencies in previous grows and overwhelming consensus seems to say LED + RO water means additional Ca/Mg is a must So I bought this stuff...

www.thcfarmer.com

[/QUOTE]
Here is the thing. It's not the RO water. RO is void of minerals and nutrients. Tap water or spring water is not. Water is the vector for nutrients to be taken up by the plants if it can't be dissolved into water it can't be taken up and that plays into what I was talking about availability and how nitrates are easily leeches from soil into streams etc.

So the only difference is RO water starts with none and the available nutrients in the soil provided they are soluble will be dissolved in water and then taken up by the plants although the molecular size can play a role

The only difference is that tap water has minerals and nutrients already in it. In organic or any grow its not an issue provided one of 2 things. There is adequate soluble nutrients is the soil or soluble nutrients added prior to watering.

Does that make sense?

Myster21 · May 15, 2020

Yes perfect sense bro, next water for me going to be with tap water. i would like to see if there is any diference.
what i can tell you its that RECHARGE that product its bomb. my plants doble in pistils and you can clearly see the difference, they even smeels more even though they are sick. thanks for advice @Aqua Man

Please help here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please help here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

threatco

Aqua Man

OldManRiver

Aqua Man

Myster21

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