hogan400 said:

Did my water swap and raised my ppm120 for a total of 640. I flipped to 12/12 and my ph dropped from 6-5.3 in two days. It seems the plants are eating since my ppm is dropping as well...all my roots look perfect. I still have the one plant battling a little stem damage but coming along ok.

Is this normal when you switch to bloom nutes at first? DUTCHMASTER A/B
Do you think I should back off my food a little? raise ph or let it swing?
Am I in for some drastic dealings? I called cch2o but seems they are closed today?

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I noticed my plants appear to take a breath for a few days when I put them in the DM Gold but come back quick, I also don't go over 500ppm for the first week, unless they ask for more.

If your nutes are at 500ppm and two days later there at 350ppm you need to up your ppm! It works like this change res set ppm at say 600ppm ph 5.9 run for 24hrs, now if you ppm rise and ph drops nutes are too strong. If ppm drop and ph rises, nutes are too weak. But if your ppm and ph are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.
Then when topping off your res use pre mixed nutes to keep it at that level, if it starts to rise or fall adjust top off nutes as needed to bring it back to proper level. This is how I set my system up and has worked great for me for years! Don't worry about the numbers just let the plant tell you what it needs and you will be fine.

Woods,
I understand the correlation between the ph and ppms rising and falling. The point you made on taking a little breath for a few days may be what im seeing. I just see they are eating some and ph is falling from 6.0-5.3. with no burning or issues..

you notice ph fall and never have any negative effects?

Sometimes pH falls some for a day or two after a water and nutrient changeout. Sometimes, because not all nutrient brands work the same...

hogan400 said:

Woods,
I understand the correlation between the ph and ppms rising and falling. The point you made on taking a little breath for a few days may be what im seeing. I just see they are eating some and ph is falling from 6.0-5.3. with no burning or issues..

you notice ph fall and never have any negative effects?

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When I walk into the room the first thing I do is read my meters. As long as all 5 things are between the setting I have chosen I don't worry to much about small swings. For example Ph, I don't chase Ph because it's a pain in the ass and you would be adding or taking away every day. What I do is set the range at 5.4 to 6.0, as long as it's in the sweet spot I leave alone.



The next is PPM, I do the same based on what week the plants are in, so for the first 2 weeks I run at 450 to 550ppm, week 3 to 5 I run at 550 to 650 and week 6&7 600 to 750, and for weeks 8 & 9 I just keep the PH between the settings.

the other 3 things are
Res temp = 61 to 65 degrees
Room temp = 80 to 85 withe out Co2 (85 to 90 with Co2)
Humidity = 60%+ (this is the big one I found effects my plants in the early stage, for some reason humidity drys up in my room so I have 2 20gal humidifiers)

you notice ph fall and never have any negative effects?

yes and no depends how far they fall, once this grow I checked and for some reason Ph had dropped to 5.0, don't know why but just up the Ph to 5.6

Remember to calibrate your meters at least every 2 weeks, my experiences are they just go out of whack one day, but it can also be gradual.

The guys must be on holidays at UC so that's why no answers by them.

Hope this helps you

woods, thanks for ur assistance, without you, shady, and ttystikk the last 2 days I woulda been trippin way worse and tried some measure Im sure woulda caused more stress than just caution and patience. hahaha.

I have a daily log I fill out every morn and night to keep track of all the stuff I adjust and monitor. Also a weekly log to track plant feedng overall so i can dial them better for future runs. I also use my probes first thing and keep em calibrated every few weeks. Thanks for answering about the "ph fall and any negative effects... that was my biggest concern.

TODAY
Everything is blowing up, ph rising and ppm dropping. Seems back to normal and Im gonna jump back to my reg thread for now. Thanks farmers!

80 views, no responses, I'll post here.

Flocculation in my top-off rez...

1) Is the mixture salvageable?
2) What caused this so I don't repeat? I added cal-mag last (5ml/gal), using a 750gph circulation pump for a 55 gal rez, only thing I added different from my system was 5ml/gal aquashield. Ideas...

@woodsman- thanx for the water level info. Crucial! What's the idea behind dropping an inch a week last two weeks, and what triggers you to drop to 2" below the net pot mid way through?

smokey_waters said:

80 views, no responses, I'll post here.

Flocculation in my top-off rez...

1) Is the mixture salvageable?
2) What caused this so I don't repeat? I added cal-mag last (5ml/gal), using a 750gph circulation pump for a 55 gal rez, only thing I added different from my system was 5ml/gal aquashield. Ideas...

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Flocculation will happen everywhere, not just in one bucket. How do you know this is what's going on? Did your EC go down mysteriously?

If you have correctly diagnosed, I would dump, rinse the crud out and start over with fresh water and nutes- because now, you don't know what you have, and the one certainty is that the balance is all out of whack!

Aquashield didn't do it. Maybe you didn't shake your cal-mag bottle well before adding? How much did oyu dilute before adding to your res? What else was in your res? I run nothing but water in my reservoir, so I can dilute at any time think necessary.

5 mils per gallon of calmag for use in the UC is wrong. Even with RO water, once you exceed 2mils per gal you'll likely run into pH fluctuation issues.

Where did you get info to use 5 mils per gallon of calmag with DM?

UCHQ said:

5 mils per gallon of calmag for use in the UC is wrong. Even with RO water, once you exceed 2mils per gal you'll likely run into pH fluctuation issues.

Where did you get info to use 5 mils per gallon of calmag with DM?

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This is good advice. I don't add cal-mag to my water at all anymore, I just use tapwater and Jacks Hydroponic, epsom salts and calcium nitrate in the recommended ratios.

smokey_waters said:

@woodsman- thanx for the water level info. Crucial! What's the idea behind dropping an inch a week last two weeks, and what triggers you to drop to 2" below the net pot mid way through?

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From reading all the posts and just about anything I can get my hands on this is what I arrived at. The reason for the changes is to simulate the season changes, and I have found that by dropping the level by 2" creates thicker roots which help hold the plant up and keeps the bugs away from the hydroton. By further dropping the water in the last 2 weeks this again coincides with the plants life cycle and in fall less moisture and cooler temps. Some people drop the res temp to 58/59. Once the plant has good root growth I move it down, don't forget you still have all those bubbles popping on the surface which bathe the roots that are not in the water. Read some of Jacks, TexasKid, Desert Sq. to name a few. Always check the FAQ at UC web site when in doubt. Remember were all on the cutting edge of growing so learning from the guys ^^^is a good reference tool. Better they make the mistakes for us. Happy New Year all :party0044:

ttystikk said:

UCHQ, or for that matter anyone who can answer this question;

The main reason I didn't decide to purchase the Undercurrent unit was due to my reluctance to marry myself to uniseals.

When I built my own system, I used 1" bulkheads. Although I'm aware they come in many sizes, the 1" seemed a good compromise between performance and cost. The ones I use are from N-G-W, because the CAP equivalents are of poor quality. I have had very few problems with them. In fact, the only leaks I've found come from where the 1" plastic tubing I use to connect all the sites together slides over the barbed end of the bulkheads. This is a quick fix, since it has meant that the hose was kinked or pulled in some way. Straighten it out, and no more leak. If I ever encounter a more serious leak from this spot, I can always install a ziptie or even a hoseclamp. I've certainly never encountered any cracking issues, and I don't expect to since the bulkhead squeezes onto the container's surface and actually helps to strengthen the opening.

Now, I have a lot of respect for the UC machine, and so it's led me to ask why it is that the designers went with uniseals? Cost per unit? I don't see that much difference between bulkheads and uniseals. It has led to perhaps the largest perceived quality issue with the product- leakage and cracking around the uniseals. There had to be some good reasons why that choice was made, and whether that decision is being revisited for future versions?

Any insight would be most helpful.

On a similar note, I have built several RDWC systems now, all with tailbuckets. This is where I add nutrients and can look to see what's floating around in my system at a glance. It's also handy since I can place the return pumnp in the water and leave its filter in place, reducing the chances of some small foreign object like hydroton blocking flow. This is a very useful component, and I'm not sure why the UC designers didn't include it on their design?

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I'm genuinely interested in some open discussion about this... I don't want anyone to think I'm being disrespectful of the UC design, far from it! I'm just looking for some background as to why these choices were made.

No disrespect interepreted on this end....seems like you've got lots of good insight you share with the Farm. Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work.

The 5ml of cal mag was used in the top off reservoir to correct a calcium deficiency. Def could have been the problem or circulation pump was too weak (750gph)

Here's what also could have happened. DM Zone ate the aquashield. Any thoughts...

.

UCHQ said:

We've been using Uniseals on our modules for well over 6 years, with reliable results. Cost comparatively when working with 2 & 3" pvc, bulk heads are priced too high given the frequency of junctions on our systems. Look into larger bulkheads to learn more.

1" is not an option as it restricts flow too much for the UC design to operate properly. 1" tub fittings work well for hobby & lower flow set ups but fall short for higher flow apps like the UC.

As for "tail bucket" feature sounds like it works well for you. Given we already add length to our system with our Epicenter, the inclusion of yet an additional bucket isn't an option for standard UC applications. Though for those preferring to add this feature, is an easy addition/ substitution for the return manifold.

You can be certain that CC's R&D has some game changing products, features in the pipeline that will make operating hydro systems more efficient and convenient. Based on your observations, I can assure you they are features and tools you'll be able to appreciate.

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smokey_waters said:

The 5ml of cal mag was used in the top off reservoir to correct a calcium deficiency. Def could have been the problem or circulation pump was too weak (750gph)

Here's what also could have happened. DM Zone ate the aquashield. Any thoughts...

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use either zone or aquashield - not both

I kept reading to use aquashield in your Top Off Rez. I use DM zone in the UC system. So can I still use aquashield in my top off Rez??

smokey_waters said:

I kept reading to use aquashield in your Top Off Rez. I use DM zone in the UC system. So can I still use aquashield in my top off Rez??

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no

smokey_waters said:

I kept reading to use aquashield in your Top Off Rez. I use DM zone in the UC system. So can I still use aquashield in my top off Rez??

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The active bennies in AS only live a few days so by the time that nute is in the system its likely there isn't much left to be killed by the zone anyway. But not sure if AS is really needed if just used in a rez.

UCHQ said:

We've been using Uniseals on our modules for well over 6 years, with reliable results. Cost comparatively when working with 2 & 3" pvc, bulk heads are priced too high given the frequency of junctions on our systems. Look into larger bulkheads to learn more.

1" is not an option as it restricts flow too much for the UC design to operate properly. 1" tub fittings work well for hobby & lower flow set ups but fall short for higher flow apps like the UC.

As for "tail bucket" feature sounds like it works well for you. Given we already add length to our system with our Epicenter, the inclusion of yet an additional bucket isn't an option for standard UC applications. Though for those preferring to add this feature, is an easy addition/ substitution for the return manifold.

You can be certain that CC's R&D has some game changing products, features in the pipeline that will make operating hydro systems more efficient and convenient. Based on your observations, I can assure you they are features and tools you'll be able to appreciate.

.......

No disrespect interepreted on this end....seems like you've got lots of good insight you share with the Farm. Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work.

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The reason I asked about this wasn't to poke holes in the design choices, but rather to gain some insight into what central design philosophy the CC team was following when they made their choices.

The difference between a 1" opening and 2" or larger IS significant- I can attest that I see a water level drop between the first bucket in a row and the last when using 1" bulkheads, which is why I don't recommend using 1" openings for more than 6 or 8 buckets in a line.

You're definitely right about larger size bulkheads being expensive! I chose 1" mainly because it was the largest affordable size. As you know, anyone can design 'the best' when cost is no object- good engineering happens when taking as much of those 'best' features as possible and designing a well rounded system everyone can afford.

I'm also quite aware of how expensive plastic injection molding machinery is, in a way that perhaps the average gardener may not be. There is no way CC could afford to mold their own plastic buckets, let alone in multiple sizes, and still offer an affordable product. Besides, what would be the point in re-inventing that particular wheel when companies that specialize in this work do it so well- at least most of the time?

I do notice, at least with 5 gallon round plastic pails, that they're available in somewhat different styles. Some are definitely thicker than others, which leads to some advantages:

1. thickness helps reduce the likelihood of cracking (although I bet the plasticizer mix recipe in the plastic itself makes a big difference too)

2. better light control

3. possibly less acknowleged is that the thicker plastic helps insulate the bucket better which helps the end customer keep the temperatures in their system more consistent, and reduces condensation issues in humid environments.

Since one of my personal design criteria was low cost, I ended up painting my buckets- which turned out to be an effective means of insulation and condensation reduction in its own right! I would not recommend this approach for commercial systems, however, since the paint doesn't adhere well enough to the plastic to meet durability and longevity standards.

If you can find a way to offer your buckets in an 'extra thick' variety- even at additional cost, I'd be very interested in taking a closer look at them for myself and my clients.