powdery mildew and dealing with it systemically

MIway · Apr 10, 2011

Well, once you have mold, you have mold. Which is why front loading the build & planning is so important... and a quarantine section that utilizes certain chem's in order to bring in a clean plant... into a presumably clean, well run environment. Prob is that most rooms don't hit that mark... and not always by fault of the grower...

But there are ways to have a mold free room/product... without any chems... organic or otherwise.

Seamaiden · Apr 10, 2011

Dixin, that whole paper discusses how most systemics are single-site mode of action, which means that it's really easy for the fungus to mutate so that it's resistant to them. It's important to incorporate a whole suite of treatments. If you use E20 often enough, you may very well create a nicely resistant fungus.

So, yes, it works. But that comes with a price, just as MIway noted.

DixinCider · Apr 13, 2011

Seamaiden said:
Dixin, that whole paper discusses how most systemics are single-site mode of action, which means that it's really easy for the fungus to mutate so that it's resistant to them. It's important to incorporate a whole suite of treatments. If you use E20 often enough, you may very well create a nicely resistant fungus.

So, yes, it works. But that comes with a price, just as MIway noted.

honesty e20 is the best treatment for pm to date period. i have not talked to one person that e20 has not worked for (@3ml per gal). have you? lol also pm isn't going to build a resistance to e20...it kills all the spores then systematically kills any further spores that land on the plant. pm doesn't have a chance to become resistant period. if you use e20 properly its the best thing for pm period.

what price does it come with? a price tag and no mold at all in you're buds?

ncga · Apr 13, 2011

Dixi

I think Sea was being nice LOL

Hear is why pot growers have a hard time when/if growing becomes legal. They have a hard time following the rules. We are not used to being told NO. I know I'm guilty of this. A lot of the miticieds , pesticides and fungicides require a license in California to have ( that why I have friends in states with no rules , sort of like Europe and Canada for seeds ) . So I did the work and got a pesticide license. The information in the study material is fantastic and ANY serious grower should use these methods. I am also lucky to live in area with lots of Vineyards which have the same fungus problems that we face. So I get to talk and learn from people with BIG dollars on the line, and major state regulation and reporting requirements

The only way to get rid of pest is to have an Integrated Pest Management program, no ONE thing is the be all. If you could just go back over the forums you can see it with mites. First Avid worked for everyone, then resistance built up. People flocked to Florimite. Then it was not as effective. Now we are on to Forbid.

A good rotation of products is the way to go. The best method indoors is a Sulfurburner and some Ativate as a preventive. If needed then try Oxidate first. It STOPS it in its tracks, but has no preventive action. Then move on to the organics.

Sonata and Stylet are good for 14 days. I apply 1oz per gallon and re apply every 7 days. It almost impossible to get 100% coverage so by weekly application of Sonota and Stylet I get great results. The weekly spray is also a good time to apply ACT or your regular foliar fert.

Kaligreen also works well on pm

Next we will be flashing the R systemic around for pm when Eagle 20 stops working

My outdoor pot has been tested and is free of pesticides as well as mold and mildew. I spray weekly with Sonata, Which is a lot milder than Serinade ( ag version ). The Pre mixed seranade you get in the store( red bottle ) is not the same. The ag version tends to burn calyxes but but does stop Boytritus.

Here is my collection that I use on Mites. only use two products a year so a full 3 year rotation. Mites are always gone in two applications. no matter where I got the clones from :party0042:

nc

Forgot to mention Immunox plus works in veg

Seamaiden · Apr 14, 2011

^^^ This is a man who's spent a LOT of time talking to me about all of this stuff and more.

DixinCider said:
honesty e20 is the best treatment for pm to date period. i have not talked to one person that e20 has not worked for (@3ml per gal). have you? lol also pm isn't going to build a resistance to e20...it kills all the spores then systematically kills any further spores that land on the plant. pm doesn't have a chance to become resistant period. if you use e20 properly its the best thing for pm period.

what price does it come with? a price tag and no mold at all in you're buds?

Dixin, did you read the label that the product comes with at all? It says exactly what I posted--PM can and will become resistant to it. This is well known, it is a fact, you can try to argue and insist it isn't true but that doesn't make you right. It can only be effective if other treatments that use different (multi-mode) modes of action are used.

Believe you me, when I read it I was rather disappointed, as NO ONE had ever mentioned this significant fact in any thread or mention I've read of it before. I hadn't fully done my homework--I didn't read the full label + MSDS myself before purchasing. That said, I probably would have used it anyway.

Please, this is a dangerous enough product to use as it is, will you and anyone else reading please do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and read the labels, front to back, even the boilerplate, will you please be sure that you understand what they say before you start mixing stuff up? Please? You CAN and WILL make resistant PM overusing and misusing this stuff. Period.

DixinCider · Apr 14, 2011

Seamaiden said:
^^^ This is a man who's spent a LOT of time talking to me about all of this stuff and more.

Dixin, did you read the label that the product comes with at all? It says exactly what I posted--PM can and will become resistant to it. This is well known, it is a fact, you can try to argue and insist it isn't true but that doesn't make you right. It can only be effective if other treatments that use different (multi-mode) modes of action are used.

Believe you me, when I read it I was rather disappointed, as NO ONE had ever mentioned this significant fact in any thread or mention I've read of it before. I hadn't fully done my homework--I didn't read the full label + MSDS myself before purchasing. That said, I probably would have used it anyway.

Please, this is a dangerous enough product to use as it is, will you and anyone else reading please do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and read the labels, front to back, even the boilerplate, will you please be sure that you understand what they say before you start mixing stuff up? Please? You CAN and WILL make resistant PM overusing and misusing this stuff. Period.

like you said misusing it might produce problems ie. not a strong enough dose(3ml per gal, will kill and keep it clean). lol i have read all my labels, eagle20 is OUT of you're plants tissue in about 30-35 days (i have seen it..plants that go longer then 30 day with pm still in the area get it, but when they have eagle20 in there system fuck no)
what i'm telling ppl is from an experienced grower, if you have tried everything and hate pm eagle 20 @ 3ml pergal. i laugh at ppl who thing they can really win the battle of pm with organics, all you're doing is stalling pm and washing the spores deeper into you're nuts. have fun smoking greencure ect. (even if it's organic i have seen it burn pistils and you're still spraying in flower which you should never do to begin with(DON'T spray passed week1). my buds have all their essential oils and unharmed tric heads. can i say the same for you? i doubt it if you're spraying late flower, and you're nugs have pm because you're consistently fighting it.
ps im glad i don't have you're eagle20 "resistant" pm that would BLOW. so eagle20 continues.

ncga · Apr 14, 2011

Some kind of " Pro Grower

You give pro growers a bad name

Is it approved for anything other than turf ?

Have you ever heard of Oxidate ? I'm just asking on this one . From what I hear ALL pro growers use this for a clean finish ?

DixinCider · Apr 14, 2011

ncga said:
Some kind of " Pro Grower

You give pro growers a bad name

Is it approved for anything other than turf ?

Have you ever heard of Oxidate ? I'm just asking on this one . From what I hear ALL pro growers use this for a clean finish ?

you're dumb....i never said i was a pro grower. i said i was experienced (i have tried almost every product on the market for pm, eagle 20 is the best one i have tried, period).
nope never heard of oxidate. i use eagle 20 (if it isn't broke, don't fix it)
who ever wants to follow my advice can, its the easy sure route. seems like alot of ppl here on the farm like to do more work then they need to, but hey it's not my sweat.

DixinCider · Apr 14, 2011

ncga said:
Dixi

I think Sea was being nice LOL

Hear is why pot growers have a hard time when/if growing becomes legal. They have a hard time following the rules. We are not used to being told NO. I know I'm guilty of this. A lot of the miticieds , pesticides and fungicides require a license in California to have ( that why I have friends in states with no rules , sort of like Europe and Canada for seeds ) . So I did the work and got a pesticide license. The information in the study material is fantastic and ANY serious grower should use these methods. I am also lucky to live in area with lots of Vineyards which have the same fungus problems that we face. So I get to talk and learn from people with BIG dollars on the line, and major state regulation and reporting requirements

The only way to get rid of pest is to have an Integrated Pest Management program, no ONE thing is the be all. If you could just go back over the forums you can see it with mites. First Avid worked for everyone, then resistance built up. People flocked to Florimite. Then it was not as effective. Now we are on to Forbid.

A good rotation of products is the way to go. The best method indoors is a Sulfurburner and some Ativate as a preventive. If needed then try Oxidate first. It STOPS it in its tracks, but has no preventive action. Then move on to the organics.

Sonata and Stylet are good for 14 days. I apply 1oz per gallon and re apply every 7 days. It almost impossible to get 100% coverage so by weekly application of Sonota and Stylet I get great results. The weekly spray is also a good time to apply ACT or your regular foliar fert.

Kaligreen also works well on pm

Next we will be flashing the R systemic around for pm when Eagle 20 stops working

My outdoor pot has been tested and is free of pesticides as well as mold and mildew. I spray weekly with Sonata, Which is a lot milder than Serinade ( ag version ). The Pre mixed seranade you get in the store( red bottle ) is not the same. The ag version tends to burn calyxes but but does stop Boytritus.

Here is my collection that I use on Mites. only use two products a year so a full 3 year rotation. Mites are always gone in two applications. no matter where I got the clones from :party0042:

nc

Forgot to mention Immunox plus works in veg

damn you need that much shit? glad what i have works. i have eagle 20, floramite (never used it, THANK GOD), greencure, and azamax. done.

Seamaiden · Apr 14, 2011

Dixin, I'm just going to point out to you as politely as I can that not only do you not know whom you're addressing when you address ncga, but if you read those labels like you say you did, then you didn't understand a fucking *thing*.

Go read, go learn.

DixinCider · Apr 14, 2011

i have read plenty...LOL i don't give a fuck who ncga is. i know what i have read, and understand it very well.
for everyone who hates pm eagle20 @3ml per gal once on cuts, then once before flower (not passed week 1) or you can keep wasting you're time and battling it.
im out of here. go smoke you're sprayed flowers, and mold washed away buds...that just sounds disgusting. im glad i know what i know, because it's ppl like you i used to listen to. i used to be against e20 tell i tried it for myself and saw for myself it leaving tissue in 30-35 days. if pm is gone, and e20 out of the buds, wtf is wrong with 30day coverage?
e20 will totally get rid of pm if used properly (keep pm off you're plants for 40-50 days and pm should be gone, spores can live for 30-35 days, but they need a host, if e20 is in there system the spores can't host on the plant because it will die, so if you can make sure they all die, by extending there life span you can stop the e20, but still i use it just to be safe)

Seamaiden · Apr 15, 2011

You don't understand a thing. But you keep on insisting that you do, that'll make it all better. You didn't even understand what *I* wrote, what makes you think you understand the label? Where did I talk about how long it remains in tissues? Please, show us, show me, because that's going to do a great job of demonstrating your total reading comprehension.

And let me be the first to say I told ya so when it happens, that one day you use it and BAMMO! What happened? Why didn't it work? Could the PM have become resistant? Oh, no! Just like the Borg!

The day I see that thread I will not be laughing, though, not at all. Because that day I will be forced to wonder whether or not someone like you is putting someone like me at risk of being exposed to resistant diseases and pests.

That's what's wrong with just throwing Eagle 20 at the PM every time you see it and without using anything else. You clearly didn't read a thing, and if you did, you comprehended not a bit of it.

desertsquirrel · Apr 15, 2011

dudes name is dixincider. what do you expect? professionalism?

im with ncga. no one should be using pesticides with out the proper training. IPM was one of my favorite classes, but idk about laws and regs. lol

Inuit · Apr 18, 2011

IPM is very important.

I had many classes which discussed the subject throughout the course of earning my Ag degree.

NCGA and Sea are dead right on the issue, so listen to them people, dixencider, please take the dicks out of your ears, you'll hear better.

Alaska

Seamaiden · Apr 18, 2011

This whole discussion may be spurring an entirely new business opportunity for me revolving around educating growers.

Regulation in medical states is coming, and for those who fancy themselves commercial growers/cash-croppers, it could put a serious dent in their plans if those don't include treating cannabis like other ag crops, the way the state (probably) will. It's happening in Colorado, isn't it?

leadsled · Apr 18, 2011

Seamaiden said:
This whole discussion may be spurring an entirely new business opportunity for me revolving around educating growers.

Regulation in medical states is coming, and for those who fancy themselves commercial growers/cash-croppers, it could put a serious dent in their plans if those don't include treating cannabis like other ag crops, the way the state (probably) will. It's happening in Colorado, isn't it?

imho, You should educate em for free. At least a start of some damage control. Happy to read some good info being shared.

fyi, your "toolbox" thread, maybe/probably is also contributing to super bugs and super molds. I know it has misinformed one farmer on how to properly treat a grow. I know the intention was to help, but unfortunately some people do not read directions or follow safe guidelines.

hope you get the word out, of course all is moot when dealing with people dumb as rocks.

I am all for natural selection, but is unacceptable when the hacks cause so much damage that does not go away after they fail and give up.

-lead

MIway · Apr 18, 2011

Seamaiden said:
This whole discussion may be spurring an entirely new business opportunity for me revolving around educating growers.

Regulation in medical states is coming, and for those who fancy themselves commercial growers/cash-croppers, it could put a serious dent in their plans if those don't include treating cannabis like other ag crops, the way the state (probably) will. It's happening in Colorado, isn't it?

OHSA type reg's is what they talk about in the dr's meetings... after all, not only are we contaminating 'food crops' with known cancer causing agents, but we expose ourselves each time we apply it.

Several 'warehouse' operations would have 'hourly' people apply these chems... I'm talking non-English speaking people walking around with portable atomizers... no masks, no suits, no goggles, no instructions, no warnings, no nothing... Eagle 20, Bayleton, Avid, Floramite, Heritage, Pylon, etc, etc, etc... crazy irresponsible... right up to the day before they chopped... unconscionable.

So... there is a reason one technically needs a license to purchase, resell & use these products... a real need for advocating responsible & safe use... and alternatives.

desertsquirrel · Apr 18, 2011

Seamaiden said:
Regulation in medical states is coming, and for those who fancy themselves commercial growers/cash-croppers, it could put a serious dent in their plans if those don't include treating cannabis like other ag crops, the way the state (probably) will. It's happening in Colorado, isn't it?

No, unfortunately, i dont think so seamaiden, in CO anyway. From what our inspecters tell us, this is a really difficult issue because ag laws are all federal. MMJ will need its own system in place and that isnt coming for quite some time....

And while im impressed beyond belief with the police involved in mmj in CO, i fear they will drop the ball on this. From what i have gathered who ever is dealing with it now is going with some seriously hippy dippy religion of organics system thats pretty much devoid of ag science.

I wish people could understand that plants can ONLY uptake inorganic nutrients and that while organics fulfill a fantastic agricultural role they are in no way superior to inorganic ones in terms of the health of the user.

at the same time the idea of dudes like dixincider running around with spray bottles filled with what ever chemicals they deem necessary does scare the shit out of me.......

Seamaiden · Apr 19, 2011

MIway, you've hit the nail on the head and demonstrated why certain products are so heavily regulated and why WE, as a group, must become more cognizant.

leadsled said:
imho, You should educate em for free. At least a start of some damage control. Happy to read some good info being shared.

I'm trying to do that here, but I've already spent DECADES doing just that with my aquatic knowledge. At a certain point, knowledge and understanding costs.

leadsled said:
fyi, your "toolbox" thread, maybe/probably is also contributing to super bugs and super molds. I know it has misinformed one farmer on how to properly treat a grow. I know the intention was to help, but unfortunately some people do not read directions or follow safe guidelines.

Hmm... it very well may be. At that point, perhaps it's better not to discuss these things at all, at least, not on internet forums, and then simply consult directly for a fee. Then I could be made truly responsible for the actions of others. Wait, no, that's not how it works...

leadsled said:
hope you get the word out, of course all is moot when dealing with people dumb as rocks.

I am all for natural selection, but is unacceptable when the hacks cause so much damage that does not go away after they fail and give up.

-lead

I don't want to say that growers as a group are dumb as rocks. Just the ones who think they actually know it all. I'm willing and able to spend a good bit of time educating myself. That costs in both terms of time and money (at the level I'm talking about). This is where someone who's spent the time, kinda like a doctor or lawyer, is worth something, both to the individual and the community.

In the end, people make their own choices.

cancerleo · Apr 19, 2011

Milk, the Lactobacsilius eat it.

powdery mildew and dealing with it systemically

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