Prepping For Texas Med Legal

[FishmanTx]

Howdy All!

Fish from Texas here! My homies and I are preparing for the possibility of Texas going med legal, either by US Senate CARERS Act (announced a couple days ago) or by Texas HB2165 (and several others). Either way we're doing all the homework and the legwork to prepare to drop beans the moment it's legal. Hopefully, we'll become one of Texas' very first grower/dispensary outfits. We plan to use under-current hydro by Current Culture so I've been trolling the UC section for some good nuggets. Didn't find any nuggets...saw several pix of some though :rolleyes:, but found lots of great info instead.

I'm really interested in talking to any legal med/commercial growers and dispensers to discuss the means and methods as well as the pitfalls and the legal hurdles. We plan to do a fact finding mission and visit some dispensaries and hopefully some hydro grows in August when we go to Colorado.

Peace!
:D

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Get your genetics up and dial em in! Good genetics sells itself and something has to seperate you from the others so its better off being the product as that speaks for itself not you. Good luck!

 

[FishmanTx]

Thx! The genetics are one reason I'm here. I grew photos WAY back in the day, but since my Lupus went active several years ago, I've recently decided to start smoking again because the Lupus was out of control. Where I'm at is not where I'm from so I don't know anyone here in this area to "acquire" meds. I decided the only safe thing to do was to grow my own. So I went "back to the block" and got some GP bagweed hydro that had a few seeds in it. When I started my research and saw all the various strains and SEED BANKS??? Holy sh*t! AUTOS????? HOLY SH*T!! I couldn't believe what I was seeing! There were so many medical strains for so many purposes, I didn't know where to start! I really got excited when I saw the price of HID lighting had come down from $1.20 per watt ($1200 for a 1kw MH) to less than $200 for the same with digital ballasts.

Anyway, I digress, so I got some gear and grew a single photo for 7 months in a 4x4x7 tent in DWC that delivered 4.5 lbs wet/1.25 lbs. dry. And that was cut a month early (kids coming for visit)! She was a BEAST. I couldn't believe what I had accomplished as it had been 30 years since I last grew anything. I guess spending 15 years in commercial horticulture helped a bit, but most was due to folks like ya'll helping me stumble through the beginning.

Many Thanks!

 

[Seamaiden]

Welcome to the farm and best of luck in gaining that medical status in your state. :)

 

[Texas Kid]

You'd probably be better off moving to Colorado and working/gaining experience in an actual commercial production facility until Texas goes legal..I honestly think that you'll retire here before Texas goes legal, these initiatives have been on the ballots down there every year for the last decade and they just don't have much hope of making it anytime soon. I didn't have the patience and got my ass to a med state to chase my passion. There are a few Texans out here with big money and big greenhouse and production facilities all ready to go back in Texas if and when the laws ever change.

Under Currents don't scale up into big production environments very well..

 

[FishmanTx]

I'd agree for the most part with that and MAN would that float my boat, but I can't give up this $35 hr job yet. Got an ex-wife and 2 kids to pay for! :p

I figure the CC will do for a start. As we gain ground and build bankroll, we'll upgrade and add on as we go along. This is a small town under 10k population. I worked in horticulture for 15 years and have been doing my homework and have grown DWC hydro a little to get my feet wet. I've built a DIY RDWC for this run, but the danged chiller crapped out twice, so had to yank it. and am finishing as DWC bubblers.

Re: Texas med legal
I'm actually hoping for the CARERS Act in the US Senate to pass. That'll eliminate all the road blocks and the Texas legislatures excuses.

CARERS Act in pdf

Crap!
Well, I WOULD upload the pdf if this thing would let me. No privilege yet, I guess. "Error uploading file"

 

[stanknugzz77]

If Texas goes legal before us, I will shit a brick. Fuck it. I don't care if I ever get legal anymore. Been at it for too long. Fucking bible belt... I am sorry to hear that your Lupus is getting bad again. I hope it gets manageable for you soon. Good luck, if/when you Texas goes legit. And no offense, but why are you guys not capitalizing on your horticulture experience right now? I mean I am sure the market is wide open there. Good luck, again. Positive vibes...

I'm in the hood selling this dope nigga (Know what I'm talkin' bout)
Fuck around and get smoked nigga (Know what I'm talkin' bout)
25 hunnid for the outdoor nigga (Know what I'm talkin' bout)
Got that Girlscout for the low nigga (Know what I'm talkin' bout)

~nugzz

 

[Texas Kid]

The Carers act only applies to states that currently have a state medical act in place already..So Texas would have to pass a state medical marijuana initiative first before Carers would have any impact at all and after a state has a medical marijuana policy in place Carers doesn't really mean anything anyways.

 

[FishmanTx]

Thx for the welcome Seamaiden!

Damn Stank, where you livin', Boss?

TK...
Yup, know that. But it removes the federal legal roadblocks, so Texas would have no excuse other than being stubborn assholes. Remember, this allows all VA doctors, as specifically provided in the Act, to prescribe cannabis to the vets. A vet in Texas can't necessarily go to Colorado therefore it becomes a "hardship" to access prescribed meds and only CBD will qualify for interstate transport, so...
The rest of the states should start falling into line shortly thereafter. The veteran angle is what's going to get it done and because I ARE one ...heh..heh...

Marijuana Policy Project has set up shop in Austin. That's a great indication as they were the ones that helped Colorado develop their laws and policy. Right now, I think we're up to 8 bills in the Texas Legislature.

The latest and greatest from Texas:

Texas Lawmakers Introduce Medical Marijuana Legislation
Posted: Mar 13, 2015 2:16 PM CST Updated: Mar 13, 2015 2:16 PM CST

(KVUE) AUSTIN -- Texas state lawmakers introduced legislation Friday that would allow patients with cancer, seizure disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, and other debilitating conditions to access medical marijuana if their doctors recommend it.

HB 3785, introduced by Reps. Marisa Márquez (D-El Paso) and Mary González (D-Clint) in the House, and a companion bill that will be introduced Friday by Sen. José Menéndez (D-San Antonio) in the Senate, would create a program through which individuals with qualifying medical conditions would receive licenses allowing them to possess limited amounts of medical marijuana, if their doctors recommend it. It would also direct the Department of State Health Services to establish a tightly regulated system of licensed marijuana cultivators, processors, and dispensaries.

"The law currently does not reflect marijuana's legitimate medical use and denies access to patients, such as veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder, citizens suffering with cancer, and severe aliments of the aging," Rep. Marquez said. "By continuing to deny access to patients, we limit the rights of families to seek the best possible treatment for conditions that do not respond to other drugs or therapies. We should create paths, and not obstacles, in allowing doctors to recommend medicine that has been shown to work."

The bills differ from previously introduced legislation that would allow access to Cannabidiol (CBD) oils with little or no Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Many patients have found that THC and other components of whole marijuana are needed in addition to CBD in order to effectively treat their conditions. Some have relocated to states with more comprehensive medical marijuana laws so that they can access whole marijuana and oils that include a more balanced ratio of CBD and THC.

"Since starting treatment with full spectrum cannabis oils [which include CBD and THC], our daughter has not had a single seizure or spasm," said Dean Bortell, whose family relocated to Colorado so that his nine-year-old daughter, Alexis, who suffers from epilepsy, would have access to medical marijuana. "With prescription drugs, we never had a symptom-free stretch spanning more than two days. With cannabis oils, we've set a record of 11 days with no end in sight. The most important thing we have learned since arriving in Colorado and starting treatment is how vital it is to have access to the whole cannabis plant. Dosing decisions should be left to doctors and families, not lawmakers."

Three out of four Texans (77 percent) think seriously ill people should have the right to use marijuana for medical purposes, according to a University of Texas/Texas Tribunepoll released in February 2014.

"Every year, thousands of Texans are diagnosed with cancer, seizure disorders, multiple sclerosis, PTSD, and other debilitating illnesses," said Caitlin Dunklee, campaign director of Texans for Medical Freedom, which is supporting the legislation. "The suffering that these patients experience is devastating for them and their families. The bill being filed today would allow patients the freedom to access the medicine that can best alleviate their suffering."

23 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territory of Guam have passed laws that allow people with qualifying conditions to access medical marijuana if their doctors recommend it.

 

[Capulator]

Welcome to the farm!

I would never run recirculating deep water culture on a commercial scale. It's definitely not forgiving enough and things can shit the bed rather quickly. A commercial grow needs to be RELIABLE!

 

[FishmanTx]

And what in your opinion makes it unreliable? I got 2 people claiming unreliability and no reasoning behind the argument. I may be new here, but I'm not new to growing. I run DWC and RDWC and I see people here, for example, running 6x UC systems at a shot in what looks to be a $100k grow room at probably $6k or better per system and that's not commercial capacity? If that's not, then what is? Soil? That's the most unreliable in my opinion to anything else due to pathogens and infestation. We can't have a crop rejected due to fungal spore or insects. THAT would kill a start-up business quick. Remember I worked in soil-based commercial horticulture for 15 years (as previously posted). Commercial vegetable operations are growing using rafts/flotation and recirculating systems all over the world. I'm not learning how to run the systems, I'm looking to learn the business. Choosing medical strains, looking at larger RDWC setups and ideas for layouts, all the legal and regulatory pitfalls and hangups, etc.

Not trying to be a d**k or anything, but c'mon guys you gotta do better than that. LOL!
:p

 

[juggo]

Heyya Fishman,
That would be something if tx. legalized medical! However,as others have stated, slim chances that will happen. I have to agree that dwc and rdwc would be out of the question for commercial ops. In my experience when something goes wrong with those systems it happens real quick,and is difficult to recover. Too many variables,cant imagine having to remove brown slime or worse from more than a few plants. Those systems are lots of fun for hobbyist,and its lots of fun building and modifying them. I would say tables or raised beds for the win in larger grows,or smaller grows.Way more forgiving,easier to correct problems. Someone once said keep it super simple (kiss). Good luck brother.

peace,
juggo

 

[Texas Kid]

Big up Juggo, long time my brutha..

Go read all the UC threads, mine go back over a decade, I helped put UC on the map and have ran them as much and as in as many configurations as anybody could. I also have 25 years under my belt with this plant specifically and 10+ in design, building, and staffing big commercial setups...6 UC systems and $100k is not even remotely commercial capacity, I did that in a barn out here at my house..we run 1000's and 1000's of plants in our commercial setups (working on a spot now with 1600 lights in flower) and you can not afford the unforgiving nature of UC's...I have ran some 40 and 60 site UC's with success but that is still hobby size growing in the big commercial scheme of things.

Coco, top feed to waste either in pots or beds is the most cost effective, trouble free method for commercial setups in my opinion..cost effective production flow from start to finish is what your looking for in a commercial setup..minimal headaches, minimal labor, ease of setup, ease of cloning, ease of production, ease of harvest, ease of tear down and cleaning, ease of trimming, ease of dry cure, and ease of packaging and ultimately storage..that's the ticket.

The truth is that you have to go all in, until you quit your day job and go all or nothing into the industry, your not going to get the knowledge, experience, or have the motivation required to make in the commercial side of the game as the big boss..you can sure get a job in the industry but if you want to run the show, it takes commitment. If you can not support yourself and family with your grow efforts now at a small home scale level, there is no hope for you at a commercial level in the future. I mean really, you can replace your gross income right now with less than 20lbs a year in production maybe even less in Texas, especially after you take the taxes out of your $73,000 a year gig which makes it around $53,000 take home, hell that's like 13lbs a year to make the same money..gotta take the leap to reach for the brass ring...

 

[FishmanTx]

Thx Juggo and TK!

TK - Dude! To be in your head for just an hour! Too bad we can't learn by "osmosis" or telepathy!
Yep, I'm still reading with a long way to go.

Ok...
First let me clarify my intentions here. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves...my aspirations are not THAT grandiose!

First, IMO, when medical legality occurs will be at least 2 years from now, minimum (if then of course). But my prediction is that some form of legislation in 6-12 months WILL pass. Implementation is another matter! I've been following this for a long time now too and I think change is a-comin' sooner than some think. My opinion is just a bit "rosier", that's all.

"SIR! Take off the rose-colored glasses and step away from the pipe! But Ocifer, I was just "hoping"! What happened to the hope and change I was promised?" HA! don't get me started on that. LOL!

So your saying that production from a 32 plant system (4x UC8, xl or otherwise), lets just say 1/2 lb yield as a very low end example, each is not enough for a starter using higher-end med strains? I grew a 1-1/4 lb out of a single plant in a 5 gallon DWC from some bagweed hydro in a 4x4 tent. I know that's personal weight for ya'll (as it was for me!), but any sale-able quantity is commercial by definition. Hell, just ask the judge when you get busted with a quarter ell-bee!

"Distribution weight! 3 to 5 in the hoosegow! Bailiff? Wack his pee-pee!". LOL!

I don't plan to provide a state-wide or even regional supply chain here. We're talking startup. Every commercial grower without corporate or financier backing had to start somewhere. For us, for now, it'll be UC for this small burg we live in because running sterile hydro is what I'm familiar with. I spent my 15 years in soil and it has too many inherent problems, sometimes not easily fixed without chemicals that can prevent the crop from being able to be sold. I mean if you get an aphid, whitefly, red mites, or some other infestation your screwed. The control chemicals are a non-solution for med grade, though one could use beneficials like ladybug and assassin bug cohabitation. Fungals are easier IF caught very early. At least in a controlled and sterile hydro environment problems show themselves pretty quickly and can possibly be fixed without necessarily losing the crop, if caught in time. Pythium included.

But I'm singing to the the choir!

I can run 4x UC8 systems in the house I'm in at the moment until we can put up some bankroll for an external location in the county meanwhile continuing my job for the last 3.5 years I have left (probably only one year by the time legality occurs). At that point we up it to 8 systems. Build, add, build, add...etc. The target is as you specified; 8-10 systems. We want to run multiple small, multi-strain family-run operations, possibly a dispensary if required (as in some other states), in our local areas. After expanding here, move, and build another in a location that suits me better (I HATE it here in the sandbox!) somewhere in east Texas in the I59-Toledo Bend corridor. After that, the sky's the limit!

I have no aspirations to a weed empire here! LOL! Just want to bank some retirement, do what I enjoy, and put the kids through college while keeping Mom from trying to move in with me! :p
Then go bury myself in the deep boonies of Arkansas and chill while growing and hootin' some personal dank and fishing! (or sailing the Caribbean, for that matter!)

Now that I've clarified my intent...

So your saying D-W or TF-W (with or without coco) would be more efficient and cost effective than UC on a larger scale grow? IYO, at what plant count would be the break-over point from UC? Assume we are starting with UC, because I can't learn another process type until AFTER legality. It's a security thing...


Thanks guys!

Fish

 

[FishmanTx]

Forgot to mention, we have a ready staff of six, two of us have been Texas Structural Pest Control licensed and have the same horticultural background. Three others are very capable apprentices and one is an office manager. We also have the business accounting and tax expert within the family but he hasn't been approached yet on this venture.

As for working the job and the grows: I have no life and live alone here in Bumfuck, Egypt. I enjoy growing and my job isn't tiring (technical). Ones does what one must to take care of family and that includes working 3 jobs if necessary. This is a means to an end.

And hydro isn't hard for me, just expensive. It's all a matter of your perspective...and the size of your wallet!

Peace!

 

[Capulator]

What TK said. I am not on the same level as him by a long shot but I have grown for about 16 years straight. I ran RDWC for 3 years or so and had my share of plants shitting the bed overnight. No thanks. It's a fun hobby but on a commercial level you need a honda, not a lambo. I have a commercial spot now and I will stick with coco beds all day.

 

[Texas Kid]

DE style lights in beds or pots are where its at for commercial...3lbs a light average is obtainable with your head in the game and we have had a 3.8lb light in there as well...I can pull 28-32lbs off a 12k room with mixed strains pretty regularly if everyone pays attention in the warfehouse

 

[fishwhistle]

TK always dropping the knowledge,Thank you bro for allowing us an unbiased look from your perspective.

 

[Capulator]

@Texas Kid are you running beds now or pots? What size beds? 4x4? 4x8? 3x3? or 3x6?

What is your veg time from rooted cut to hit those numbers? Right now I am vegging 36 days (27 in pots and 9 in the beds). I am hitting 2.5 on some strains (even some OG's), but the 3 potato mark has been evading me so far. All my rooms are 9k, 9 beds. 3x6.

 

[FishmanTx]

Thx TK! Now either I'm brain farting or something because the term DE in reference to lighting isn't ringing the bell, but when you say 12k room I'm assuming we're talking about 12kw worth of double-end HID? The price point is near double the single end horizontals @ 1kw. How are those as compared to verticals?

And speaking of top-feed DW, enlighten me on how you deal with waste water management. In DWC is one thing, but a continuous flow would have to be tanked and dealt with later. Can't just pour it down the septic, I'd be afraid I'd eventually have nitrated well water.