Proper Nutrient Use

[MrBlackThumb]

When I started growing, people online always seemed to suggest that nutrients make plants grow faster.
According to an article I've read recently about the top 10 most common growing myths, this isn't true at all.

In fact, they claim you should only feed your plant if a deficiency shows up because, nutrients really aren't that important.
What's important is how healthy your leaves are because of Photosynthesis.
If your leaves are healthy and absorb 100% the light provided, nothing you do is gonna make it grow faster.

This seems logical but, is it true ?

Are we newbies actually misguided into thinking nutrients are this incredible, almost magical thing that's going to make our plants produce frosty, dank ass buds the size of a fist and the length of an arm when all the plant really needs are healthy leaves and good genetics to do just that ?

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this.

 

[MJ Indicator]

It would be true if plants were only comprised of leaf matter.

 

[bigjay420]

Nutrients matter. Plants have to eat, just like us. Plant 2 plants. Only use nutes on 1. See which one makes it. The unfed plant won't last til flip. I know cuz I've done it.

Feed those gals. They'll reward you. The proof is in the puddin'.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

Here's the article, it does a better job at explaining than I can.

Growers often refer to nutrients as “food” for your plants. When you talk about it that way, it intuitively seems like giving more “food” would result in bigger buds, but is that really the case?

As we learned earlier in the section about light intensity, the real "food" for your plants is light. Light is what your plant turns into energy through photosynthesis, and this energy is what fuels vegetative and flowering growth.

Then what do the nutrients do? They're like little helpers that give your plant what it needs to carry out the process of photosynthesis and growth.

I like to think of nutrients like vitamins for humans. While humans need to get certain vitamins to survive, I want you to consider that people should never eat multi-vitamins like candy.
In fact, if you give people more vitamins than their body can use, they will actually get very sick.

Nutrients are important to healthy growth, but it's important to understand that going overboard will cause more harm than good.

While many growers are trying to raise nutrient levels as high as possible, I have gotten better results (yields) when I simply try to avoid providing too little or too much nutrients.

Healthy cannabis leaves appear green and uniform. As long as your leaves look like this, without signs of spots, discoloration, curling or other problems, you have nothing to worry about!

Cannabis plants seem to produce the best yields when nutrient levels are kept on the lower end compared to what is recommended with most nutrient systems;
I try to give enough nutrients to prevent nutrient deficiencies throughout the grow, while avoiding nutrient burn.
I rarely raise nutrient levels unless I'm noticing signs that this particular plant is a heavy nutrient-user and needs more.
You will notice that different plants often require wildly different levels of nutrients.

As long as your cannabis is not showing signs of nutrient burn or nutrient deficiencies, you're in the "sweet spot" for optimum growth and yields

So basically, instead of trying to guess when I should feed my plants, the best way to go about this would be :

Wait for a deficiency and feed the plant.
Then, let's say the deficiency shows up again 5 watering later, next time, I'd feed it at the 4th watering to avoid the deficiency.
This way, the plant would never be hungry, overfed or have any problems whatsoever related to nutes.

 

[bigjay420]

Can I play a game of basketball after not eating for 3 days..? Yes. Will I perform like the kids who DID eat those days..? NO.

Can you grow without using nutrients? Sure. Will you produce anything medicinal? NO.

The whole article is one big oxymoron. Nutrients dont matter, but you should wait until your plant is sick to feed..? Naw. I think I'll just feed the whole time and keep my plants healthy.
Again. Plant 2 girls. Feed one and not the other. Post the results right here. I think we both know what the results will be. As I said... I've done it.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

Sure, I'll do my experiment and report back here but, it's not gonna be about not feeding your plants, it's gonna be about balance.
I've noticed growing really seems to be all about patterns and this is what I'm gonna experiment with.

For example, I've been keeping a lot of logs from my past grows and noticed something curious about my watering schedule.
Germination to week 1, the seed needs 250ml of water.
Week 2, seedling needs 250ml every 3 days.
Week 3, plant needs 375ml every 3 days.
Week 4, plant needs 500ml every 3 days and so on...

Believe it or not, this pattern works for any strains I've grown and I haven't had over/under watering issues ever since I started using it.
Now, if I were to do the same for feeding and incorporated it into the pattern, I think I could dial-in any strains I want quite easily using it.
All I need to do is find how long it takes for the deficiencies to show up, find and feed them with a nute ratio that works for any medium feeders and then, tweak it if the plant is a heavy or light feeder.

This shouldn't be too hard to figure out with a EC/PPM meter.

 

[bigjay420]

Just make sure you log each different strain, and hope they all have the same eating habits/ water absorption rate. I feel like that watering "system" is gonna be fallible. I like to personally care for every plant on an individual basis. They all eat differently, IME. For them to all need the same amount of water/ food, they'd all have to have the same sized roots and same exact water intake. And I can tell you're an educated guy. So you know thats not the case. You may be giving them a precise amounts of water/ nutrients. But they all do not require the same amount. Thats why we can feed 5 plants ( same strain, same phenos) the same amount of food, and one gets deficiencies, while the other may not. Maybe your into mass production, but I'm into dialing in every plant individually. It pays off (for me). And while I dont keep up with the amount of water I give every plant, I grow colas the size of King Kong's dick.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

Just make sure you log each different strain, and hope they all have the same eating habits/ water absorption rate. I feel like that watering "system" is gonna be fallible. I like to personally care for every plant on an individual basis. They all eat differently, IME. For them to all need the same amount of water/ food, they'd all have to have the same sized roots and same exact water intake.

Sure, the system isn't infallible but it's pretty damn close.
Sometimes, a plant is gonna drink in 2 days what it's supposed to drink in 3 so, I increment the water given to it by 125ml for each days lost.

This system never failed me so far.

All this is, is just a basic framework i can use to make growing easier for me.
Because so far, all growing has been is a big pain in the ass.

Sure, growing looks really easy when you look at pictures but it certainly isn't.
All I seem to be doing is fixing issues after issues and then fixing some more issues. (All of which are related to nutrients)
So, if my experiment can save me from having one less headache a week, I will gladly incorporate it into my routine.

 

[bigjay420]

Look into super soil, and you can LITERALLY just water. You wont get a deficiency until at least 3 weeks of flower, if at all. I use my own tweaked super soil mix and feed nutrients. I don't ever have any major issues since I made the switch. It sounds like that would be your best bet to ease your "ass pains".
I checked your posts... You're on the right track. But if you have rust issues before getting out of seedling, your methods need reevaluation. Seems like your creating unnecessary work for yourself... If you keep your PH in range and an abundance of nutrients available AT ALL TIMES, your plant will take all it can handle, and leave the rest. No guess work or experiments involved.
As for "over/ under watering"... Cannabis REALLY enjoys the wet and dry process. So rather than timing days and measuring water, just water when the bitches beg you for it. The plant over compensates and tries to move water as fast as possible when it gets the fresh blast of aqua. It boosts growth in ALL stages.

If you're curious about learning other (easier) methods, PM me. I'll gladly help you. But I feel I have nothing else to add to this post. It seems like your asking for opinions, and then making a ton of contradictory retorts based on your "findings". Look at my signature thread. I know my shit. And I would LOVE help you get some of your grow issues in check. But you HAVE to be open to other methods than the ones that (obviously) aren't working that well. No offense. I realize its hard to guage a persons tone via text. But, I wanna make sure you know I am not trying to be rude. I'm here to help.

 

[Seamaiden]

When I started growing, people online always seemed to suggest that nutrients make plants grow faster.
According to an article I've read recently about the top 10 most common growing myths, this isn't true at all.

In fact, they claim you should only feed your plant if a deficiency shows up because, nutrients really aren't that important.
What's important is how healthy your leaves are because of Photosynthesis.
If your leaves are healthy and absorb 100% the light provided, nothing you do is gonna make it grow faster.

This seems logical but, is it true ?

Are we newbies actually misguided into thinking nutrients are this incredible, almost magical thing that's going to make our plants produce frosty, dank ass buds the size of a fist and the length of an arm when all the plant really needs are healthy leaves and good genetics to do just that ?

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this.

Really? I wonder why farmers use fertilizers, then... Hmm.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

I'm here to help.

What would you do if your plants 3 weeks in flowering were infested by gnats and had a nitrogen toxicity?
Would you flush and risk stunting them to death or just stop using nutes until it goes away ?
It's been a week since I started using water only and the leaves aren't clawing anymore but, they still have a dark green color.

What should be my next move ?
No, I can't kill the gnats, I live in a third world country when it comes to pest control and the only natural predator place don't fulfill their orders.

 

[m8ty]

Cover your pots to prevent the gnats from getting into your root balls, I use silk like material, like woman's stockings.

Kill the gnats living in your soil with mineral oil based insecticide...

 

[MrBlackThumb]

Cover your pots to prevent the gnats from getting into your root balls, I use silk like material, like woman's stockings.

Kill the gnats living in your soil with mineral oil based insecticide...

I've already covered my pots with perlite, It helps keep the population in check.
The mineral oil is what stunted and killed one of my other plant so, let's forget about it.

They really aren't that big of a deal anyway, my biggest problem is the nitrogen toxicity.

 

[bigjay420]

What would you do if your plants 3 weeks in flowering were infested by gnats and had a nitrogen toxicity?
Would you flush and risk stunting them to death or just stop using nutes until it goes away ?
It's been a week since I started using water only and the leaves aren't clawing anymore but, they still have a dark green color.

What should be my next move ?
No, I can't kill the gnats, I live in a third world country when it comes to pest control and the only natural predator place don't fulfill their orders.

Follow @m8ty 's advise. And hang some molasses fly traps. Gnats LOVE moisture and sugar. The traps are both.
For the N tox... You DEFINITELY need to stop and nutrients that have N. In Flower, your N levels should be considerably lower than Veg. I'd use PH'd water with Epsom salt (table spoon per gallon) to sooth your root zone. Then PH'd water with cal mag for another 2 waterings or so. While old leaves won't ever fully recover, it should still stop your root/ tip "burn" (that should be happening any minute). Then drop your nutes to 2/3 strength til you see how they react. And check your nutes and make sure you don't add any more N.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

I added an extra layer of perlite in all my pots and installed fly traps all around the place too.
I also watered the thirsty ones with 6,3PH Epsom water and I'm gonna do the same to the others soon.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to wait until the plants show me some sort of sign they're hungry before feeding again?
Cause I added a shitload of nutes to the soil while being retarded and trying to fix a problem that didn't exist just because the leaves stem were red.
I wouldn't want to stunt them, especially since they just started drinking at normal intervals again.

 

[m8ty]

Yea man them gnats will have you chasing red stems and other deficiency's brought on by the root damage from the gnat larva. The mineral oil helped allot not sure why it killed one of your plants, maybe the mix was too strong, I've used one liquid ounce of mineral oil insecticide per gallon of water with good results. Next time you might wanna mix it light, maybe a half ounce of mineral oil per gallon of water and flush with water the day after.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

Yea man them gnats will have you chasing red stems and other deficiency's brought on by the root damage from the gnat larva.

That's good info, maybe I should try the mineral oil again.

Next time you might wanna mix it light, maybe a half ounce of mineral oil per gallon of water and flush with water the day after.

I'll try it on the sad looking plant with red stems, thanks.

 

[MrBlackThumb]

I drenched the plants with mineral oil on the 22th and flushed them on the 23th.
Here we are on the 25th, the soil is still wet as hell but, the leaves aren't droopy anymore and the stems are going back to a normal color.

Everything is under control I guess.

Back on topic, if it's bad to give plants the bare minimum of nutes, how do I tell when they're hungry ?

Cause all I've been doing so far is guessing and using the flawed ''feed every 3 watering'' rule which obviously, isn't working out for me if I keep having problems even when I don't stupidly mess things up.