QuarterbackMo said:

I do this shit for real you feel me?

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I do not feel you, as you are describing a completely inappropriate setup relative to the needs of the OP. And, yes, having worked with 100s of growers, I'm aware that there are different approaches. I'm sure my homies in Oregon would laugh at your plants and your bud quality. Enjoy smoking those leftover nutrients, it will be easy for you to do it though, and it's obvious that's what is most important to you.

DrRabbit said:

I do not feel you, as you are describing a completely inappropriate setup relative to the needs of the OP. And, yes, having worked with 100s of growers, I'm aware that there are different approaches. I'm sure my homies in Oregon would laugh at your plants and your bud quality. Enjoy smoking those leftover nutrients, it will be easy for you to do it though, and it's obvious that's what is most important to you.

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Every ebb n flood system also uses 'leftover' nutrients- or are you advocating we all waste nutrients and pollute our environment unnecessarily with them?

Why are you stuck on the idea that RDWC is incompatible with either top quality results, or with dedicated beginners? I smell a bad case of sour grapes; did you try this approach and fail at it, so now you have a chip on your shoulder?

A rank beginner should start with potting soil, not DWC. RDWC does not have any more vulnerabilities than standalone DWC buckets do, and in fact QuarterbackMo has already made a strong case for that above. I'm not going to repeat it.

Finally, the OP specifically mentioned DWC, which is why I focused on it. QBMo and I share the opinion that if one is going to try a DWC approach, do RDWC. Who are you to judge his skill level, and for that matter, why are you assuming this person is so stupid they can't read a thermometer?

Some comments about the comments above --

ttystikk said:

RDWC does not have any more vulnerabilities than standalone DWC buckets do.

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I will take an airstone failure in a single isolated bucket over that in a multi-plant reservoir every time. Same applies with a bad batch of nutrients. You may look upon losing your entire crop as the same as losing a single plant. I do not.

ttystikk said:

Finally, the OP specifically mentioned DWC, which is why . . if one is going to try a DWC approach, do RDWC.

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But earlier you say . . .

ttystikk said:

A rank beginner should start with potting soil, not DWC.

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Okay, so you're providing an even-more-complicated approach which, if your final assumption holds (see below), this proves to be even more irrational.

ttystikk said:

Who are you to judge his skill level, and for that matter, why are you assuming this person is so stupid they can't read a thermometer?

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I'm assuming the OP was capable of identifying the topic in which he/she was interested. It is clear that you are the one making bigger assumption about the OP's knowledge or skill.

Yeah, it's all about about sour grapes. Such that you don't make the same mistakes again, please Google 'argumentum ad hominem'.

DrRabbit said:

Some comments about the comments above --


I will take an airstone failure in a single isolated bucket over that in a multi-plant reservoir every time. Same applies with a bad batch of nutrients. You may look upon losing your entire crop as the same as losing a single plant. I do not.


But earlier you say . . .


Okay, so you're providing an even-more-complicated approach which, if your final assumption holds (see below), this proves to be even more irrational.



I'm assuming the OP was capable of identifying the topic in which he/she was interested. It is clear that you are the one making bigger assumption about the OP's knowledge or skill.

Yeah, it's all about about sour grapes. Such that you don't make the same mistakes again, please Google 'argumentum ad hominem'.

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Yep. Someone brand new to growing should start with dirt. I'm on pretty solid ground with that, so calling it 'irrational' is more a reflection of your skewed viewpoint than anything accepted by the community.

You still haven't provided a good reason why DWC might be better; you haven't even made a decent case for why it isn't 'as bad'! If you've neglected your plant/s to the extreme that some died, might I suggest you missed something somewhere!

I'm not knocking DWC, as you seem bent on doing to RDWC. It's fine as a hydroponic approach, within its limitations. One of those is a bad reputation for root rot, which RDWC is less prone to.

Again, your incorrect assumptions about RDWC betray your complete lack of knowledge about the subject. If you can't provide accurate information, especially to those well are new and actively seeking good information, kindly keep your wrongheaded opinions to yourself.

ttystikk said:

. . . kindly keep your wrongheaded opinions to yourself.

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Um, I believe I was the who was answering the OP's questions about *DWC*. Apparently you don't do DWC and perhaps think the OP should be growing in dirt. That's fine, but makes for a poor answer to his/her questions -- about DWC.

I'm glad you can "prove" you are correct by citing no facts, spewing only your indisputable opinions and personal attacks. I'm learning a lot. All about you, and nothing about growing. I'm sure the OP's doing cocoa coir now!

DrRabbit said:

Um, I believe I was the who was answering the OP's questions about *DWC*. Apparently you don't do DWC and perhaps think the OP should be growing in dirt. That's fine, but makes for a poor answer to his/her questions -- about DWC.

I'm glad you can "prove" you are correct by citing no facts, spewing only your indisputable opinions and personal attacks. I'm learning a lot. All about you, and nothing about growing. I'm sure the OP's doing cocoa coir now!

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The OP asked about DWC. QuarterbackMo and I both suggested going straight to RDWC. So far as I can tell, the only one who had a problem with that is... you.

ttystikk said:

The OP asked about DWC. QuarterbackMo and I both suggested going straight to RDWC. So far as I can tell, the only one who had a problem with that is... you.

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Again, facts defy your statements. Please see sedate's post above.

Dude, seriously. Just get a chiller and join the ranks of happy RDWC users, already! DWC is actually more difficult, which is the point we were trying to make all along... I'm not knocking the style as illegitimate, I'm just saying that if you're going to go to all the trouble, why not do one more small step and gain a whole new set of benefits?

My way is cheaper, easier, highly mobile, and well-suited to my needs.

I believe you are proposing the equivalent of buying a 747 to go to 7-11 for a Big Gulp.

DrRabbit said:

My way is cheaper, easier, highly mobile, and well-suited to my needs.

I believe you are proposing the equivalent of buying a 747 to go to 7-11 for a Big Gulp.

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.. and I never said your way doesn't work.

Stop 'believing' and do some actual investigation.

I continue to take exception to your persistent mischaracterizations of the 'complexity' of RDWC vs. its benefits. Like I said, stick to what you know, and stop talking shit about what you don't.

ttystikk said:

.. and I never said your way doesn't work.

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Nor did I. RDWC just doesn't work in every situation. Rather than assume the OP needs my opinion about what he needs, I read his/her post and responded to that in which he/she expressed interest.

I know that you missed sedate's post above. Perhaps rereading the original question would help you understand that the poster wasn't seeking alternatives to DWC - notions that you seem hellbent on shoving down all our throats.

Please start your own RDWC fanboy thread. You may be happier gathering there, where you all may mutually assure one another that only you have seen the truth.

DrRabbit said:

My way is cheaper, easier, highly mobile, and well-suited to my needs.

I believe you are proposing the equivalent of buying a 747 to go to 7-11 for a Big Gulp.

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^^^^ THIS ttystikk. There are plenty of good reasons to plumb shit together. And plenty of good reasons not too. The underlying grower and constraints of the grow-op are the important issues here - not whether or not RDWC is an objectively better method given unlimited budget and a totally malleable grow space

RDWC is a very effective grow method - for those who have experience, an appropriate space, and the funds. Folks without a harvest to fund equipment purchases will likely find a chiller by itself unrealistic - considering a 1/10hp chiller will set you back like $350 - before you spend another $200 or $300 or so plumbing the thing up. Assuming you are pretty handy.

Folks growing in a spare bedroom or other finished space might also be hesitant to plumb out plant sites and pump around hundreds of gallons of nuted water. A pinprick leak undetected for even a few hours could cause immense damage to a person growing in a carpeted basement or the like.

ttystikk said:

QBMo and I share the opinion that if one is going to try a DWC approach, do RDWC. Who are you to judge his skill level, and for that matter, why are you assuming this person is so stupid they can't read a thermometer?

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ttysttikk said:

I continue to take exception to your persistent mischaracterizations of the 'complexity' of RDWC vs. its benefits. Like I said, stick to what you know, and stop talking shit about what you don't.

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For some reason you have reduced the very real complexity of RDWC systems to a "thermometer." This is laughable ttystikk. Fucking laughable.

Let's see: Multiple fittings per plant site, water-tight plumbing, designing the circulation, accounting for fe loss due the pump in the fert recipie, proper water aeration and airstone placement, and a fucking $$$ chiller with the electricity (extra amperage those things get thirsty) budget to run it.

Have I forgotten anything ? Because you listed "thermometer" as the only requisite difference between the methods. Which, to reiterate, is just grossly absurd.

So - for the cost of the least expensive chiller than hydrofarm makes - the 1/10hp model - not including any fittings, pumps, or anything else - I could build a dozen complete standalone 5-gallon hydrobuckets. That won't leak and do not require fixed plant sites or another several hundred dollars and a decent bit of expertise to plumb together.

And just to nitpick one last point:

ttystikk said:

It's fine as a hydroponic approach, within its limitations. One of those is a bad reputation for root rot, which RDWC is less prone to

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Oh bullshit. First off, pump foul-ups can kill an entire RDWC run in 12 hours - secondly - root rot problems that plagued really experienced growers (guys that could grow you under the table ttystikk) more or less killed the MPB following around here not so long ago . .

Lol ok Im done reading this... There is too much bullshit getting thrown around in this thread... Ill just put it like this... You can either be a mexican bucket chaser everyday or you can grow mighty white and take 20 min out of your day and grow out the same plants that would take you at the minimum double the time it takes me. This is 12 plants with just under a 2 week veg from clone... They are in mid week 2 of bloom they still got 3 more weeks before they finally stop growing up they will finish about 6 inches over the cages which are 42"... This grow hasnt even been getting the tlc it normally does and it still looks flawless... The cch2o method diy be me...



Now that room has co2 gen, sentilel enviro controllers, bluelab multimeter, and a chiller overall its an expensive setup but show me where rdwc plants cant be as consistant in a rdwc?



If you observe the pic above you will see theres not one fucked up leaf or purple stem in the whole garden and all I do is plug my hose up to a trash can (top off rez) and let water and or nutrients pump for like 5 min every 2-3 days.

And now for a smaller setup

This is where I run seeds... There is no chillers, no multi meters no enviro controllers or none of that shit there is literally 2 36gal rubbermaid tubs and one 15 gal for a contol this could be knocked down to one tub or built to however many you want. The current setup with the 15 gal control bucket only calls for about 1-2 add backs of about 20 gallons between 3 week flushes. The rest is just ph checking every day or 2. Once again this system will blow yours out of the water. And its dirt cheap.

Yeah, it looks nice. Your chest-thumping still doesn't answer the OP's questions, though. Looks good, it's just irrelevant.

DrRabbit said:

Yeah, it looks nice. Your chest-thumping still doesn't answer the OP's questions, though. Looks good, it's just irrelevant.

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Thank you but im not trying to thump my chest Im just trying to show what rdwc does when you do it right... The myth seems to be all this root rot and cant stay consistant bullshit im just correcting the rumors... Fwiw Ive been doing rdwc for a long time now and never even came close to losing a crop even in power outages that lasted almost 2 days. I never had root rot either. If you dont want your pump fouled up dont run foul shit in your system @ sedates post its that simple.

Poor guy is never gonna tell us what he intends to do now...

I will say this: I have been impressed by both systems, but if I want to watch someone blow it up, I watch QB. If I want to blow it up(well water, blah blah blah, any other excuses) organic soil and more recently coco.

PB

DrRabbit said:

Yeah, it looks nice. Your chest-thumping still doesn't answer the OP's questions, though. Looks good, it's just irrelevant.

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^^^^ at this point, totally LULZ @ QB and ttystikk . They. just. do. not. get. it.

+1 DrRabbit ;)

I mean - they are *still* confused:

QB said:

Once again this system will blow yours out of the water.

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Uhh - QB - just so you aren't sore or anything - that does look really good.

However confused you maybe at the prospect though - not everyone wants that.

I get the ego driven posting - "look at me, look how great my grow is, do you want to be like me?!" - but that is not an appropriate setup for everyone - for many, many reasons.

That is all. Try to wrap your head around that. Read the OP a few times, stop posting pics of your grow, and think about it.

I know what you mean, sedate. It's not like we we're telling them it's a crap, just inappropriate relative to the OP questions.

I will say that if I ever need to change the oil in my car, I'll be able to rely on QBMo and Tttystynk to tell me why RDWC is superior to changing my oil! All hail, RDWC! Ha.

sedate said:

^^^^ at this point, totally LULZ @ QB and ttystikk . They. just. do. not. get. it.

+1 DrRabbit ;)

I mean - they are *still* confused:



Uhh - QB - just so you aren't sore or anything - that does look really good.

However confused you maybe at the prospect though - not everyone wants that.

I get the ego driven posting - "look at me, look how great my grow is, do you want to be like me?!" - but that is not an appropriate setup for everyone - for many, many reasons.

That is all. Try to wrap your head around that. Read the OP a few times, stop posting pics of your grow, and think about it.

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Ok well answer this since what Im saying is irrelevant to the op original post... What makes your system better then mine to the point my method wont work and yours will? I dont understand your point or dr.rabbits because anywhere where you are gonna drop a dwc bucket is more then practical for rdwc also and rdwc is superior to dwc in almost every aspect i dont see the point in running a dwc bucket period when you can rdwc instead is my whole point. I bet you cant walk away from your bucket for more then 3 days without all hell breaking loose in the grow room. There is no consistancy since theres no extra solution to buffer it. There is no extra motion in the water to save yourself from a no oxygen situation such as if your air pump went out and vice versa. I can go on all night with reasons on why rdwc is better cuz I have actually did both. I ran a whole dwc crop before and I swear that was the dumbest shit ive ever did almost in life. My life was hell for 3 months. Fuck mobility too because if you set your shit up right you shouldnt have to move the plants anyway... Not only that but moving plants around in late flower is never any fun and very crucial due to the fact your branch will never bounce back if it gets bent that late. Explain to me when a dwc is more appropriate then a rdwc is all im saying.

QuarterbackMo said:

Explain to me when a dwc is more appropriate then a rdwc is all im saying.

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When you grow a single plant, genius. Got it now? I can't make this any simpler for you.