Protein Skimmer

  • Thread starter jack the reaper
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oldtimer60

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Had a reef aquarium for 20 years, 100 gal. For oxygenizing it would probably be better than any airstone, but for cleaning you need the salt to form the bubbles and have the tension withiln the water to clean it.
 
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oldtimer60

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followup Thats why nobody uses a skimmer on a freshwater aquarium.
 
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jack the reaper

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I understand its a saltwater technique, otherwise you dont get the effect, right?
But are our reservoirs fresh water? or salt? the synth. nute ones are loaded with salts and i have noticed increased surface tension during periods when i am applying microbials.

I am pretty sure there would be way less skimmate, which doesnt bother me at all, as a matter of fact, i dont need any! what i want to do is generate crazy amounts of super fine bubbles.

Just starting to think some of this stuff through and compare the cost/work/time to the overall benefit etc..
 
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Charles Xavier

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Greetings jack the reaper

There is no net benefit to protein skimming in a standard hydroponic application. In fact it's detrimental because protein skimming also removes trace elements.

what i want to do is generate crazy amounts of super fine bubbles...jack the reaper

Why?
I assume it's for oxygenating purposes...

Here's the skinny: you're not injecting oxygen (it's possible to do that, but it's not simply accomplished), you're creating a current (water movement) which promotes air exchange by exposing more of the water volume to the surface area of air. The more surface area you have, the more efficient your air exchange will be.

(This is why a long run of four (4) inch diameter drain to a large shallow reservoir works so nicely: lots of surface area.)

The other thing to remember: The oxygen saturation point of water is fixed dependent on temperature.

That means: no matter how much air you pump in there (currents created), or surface area you possess, water can hold only so much oxygen at a specific temperature (the cooler the temperature, the higher the saturation point). Moreover, the roots can use only so much oxygen in a standard hydroponic application.

In other words: Yes, there is such a thing as overkill and yes it is detrimental because all that extra air begins to negatively react with your nutrient solution.

Sincerely,
Charles.
 
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jack the reaper

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Thanks Charles, i think i am at or near the point of diminishing returns although two things intruige me and those are the use of bio balls in a tube to pump my chiller return through to expose the water to even more surface area there
annnd...
maybe some nice latex trunk seals for my plants!! we can get more oxygen in there, we just need to pressurize the individual bins!!!
j/k bout the seals.
thanks for your post,
jr
 
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jack the reaper

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almost forgot. i am also interested in the possible application of Enriched Air Nitrox into the blower lines to feed the roots with higher o2 levels. that gas is available at scuba shops everywhere and its nice cause its pressurized and as it escapes it COOLS! this could bump up the o2 and cool the warm airlines at the same time. usually $10 a fill.
Nitrox instruction and oxygen clean equipment isnt cheap, but then you would be ready to dive!!
 
S

SkyHi

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Dude you should put a lil aquarium castle in your res for the benies to live, LOL. Not evrything from the aquarium hobby will translate directly to cannibus. The skimmer will probably remove some of your nutrients too LOL j can just see what next. Maybe I should put my sump in my grow room LOL
 
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jack the reaper

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i thought about the castle, funny you should mention it! i would have to move the sunken pirate ship and treasure chest to the side but that just might be the thing that sets this whole thing off!
 
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oldtimer60

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skimmate in a hydro system equals nutrients, I agree with Charles.
 
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jack the reaper

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Hey guys!
what about using the central column part without the skimming component to oxygenate, maybe setting the device in the main res and let it run or cycle it? i have a lot of oxygenating features built into my rdwc system already, but always looking for ways to do it better/cheaper. check out my thread in the dwc forum.

cheers! jack
 
S

SkyHi

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Or you could just use a power head with the airator hose attached and that will homegenize your nutes as well as oxigenate, most power heads come with a small hose that attaches at the top and acts as a snorkel introducing air to the mix
 
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bicycle racer

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a simple powerhead would be less trouble and do a better job blasting water near the surface helping gas exchange. i recommend maxi-jets if your in the states they last many years and work well and the impellers dont jam up i was in the aquarium industry for years and have used pretty much everything.
 
Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

Supporter
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Plants use CO2 and give off O2. Marijuana root zone needs O2. You could try to grow underwater plants in the res and they can oxygenate the water. If that was possible it would be essentially free after setting it up.

For sick people who need high oxygen concentrations to live such as COPD, lung cancers and cardiac disorders that require tanks of O2 they have home and portable oxygen generators so they don't have the expense or inconvenience of refilling o2 tanks. You could use one of them. After the initial cost you would never need to buy O2 again.

This is an interesting discussion. I have often thought along similar lines for CO2. A grow room that has animals living in it producing CO2. Like X amount of guinea pigs per plant.

There are cool outdoor systems where guys collect rain water, raise fish to harvest and water/fertilize a garden with fish waste water. I think I have seen one where they have a hydroponic garden in the system. All connected and supposedly self contained.
 
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bicycle racer

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if you really wanted to oxygenate water with aquarium equipment a wet dry sump style filter does that very well also has service area for aerobic bacterial life.
 
S

SkyHi

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if you really wanted to oxygenate water with aquarium equipment a wet dry sump style filter does that very well also has service area for aerobic bacterial life.

Canister filter, I would stick with an airpump. The type of bacteria used in aquariums reduces ammonia and nitrates and nitrites which are some of the nutrient forms we use .
Also would take at least a month to colonize
 
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jack the reaper

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the o2 generator sounds trick, that and a compressor and bank of tanks would be beautiful. set it to refill and mix a .30-.35 blend of EAN (30-35% o2 the rest nitrogen)
when the pressure in the bank gets too low to bubble the bins then the compressor kicks on and tops it off. an electric compressor might only have to run for 30mins a day.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
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followup Thats why nobody uses a skimmer on a freshwater aquarium.
Actually, they are used in FW applications, but the hardness of the water is very important for effect. The harder the better the performance.

Foam fractionation is one of the oldest methods of *chemical* filtration we have.

Charles has it nailed.
Hey guys!
what about using the central column part without the skimming component to oxygenate, maybe setting the device in the main res and let it run or cycle it? i have a lot of oxygenating features built into my rdwc system already, but always looking for ways to do it better/cheaper. check out my thread in the dwc forum.

cheers! jack
If your goal is to increase dissolved O2 levels then surface agitation is the way to do it. Charles did a great job of explaining why your water/res is limited in how much O2 it can hold. What I don't think you've picked up that he put down is that the only place where CO2/O2 exchange occurs is on the surface of the water. Therefore, adding a venturi (the snorkel) to a powerhead will only create microbubbles, it will not increase the dissolved O2 in the solution. Cooling the solution will automatically allow it to hold higher levels of O2.

Canister filter, I would stick with an airpump. The type of bacteria used in aquariums reduces ammonia and nitrates and nitrites which are some of the nutrient forms we use .
Also would take at least a month to colonize
Disagreed. What bicycle is talking about is basically a reaction tower. It doesn't necessarily have to house nitrifying bacteria, but when the solution is trickled over the media (let's say bio-balls) then it cannot help but outgas CO2 and take up O2 because of the incredible increase in surface volume. Surface volume is where it's at if that exchange is what you're after.

But let's say that somehow his res is colonized by some sort of nitrifying bacteria. They take NH3/4 (ammonia) and oxidize that into NO2 (nitrite). The first form is definitely a usable form of nitrogen for the plants, but the final product, NO3 (nitrate) is also perfectly usable *and* will not be reduced without either water changes or a region within the system with sufficiently slow flow so as to allow an anaerobic region, such as a plenum. Those anaerobes can then break down NO3 into its constituent components--nitrogen gas and oxygen, and those are released into the atmosphere.

Jack, I see you've moved away from foam fractionation, which I think is a good idea because what it would mostly do is remove the very nutrients you just added. Keep it simple--surface agitation with good air exchange wherever the res is. Bubbles moving through the water absolutely do not increase dissolved O2 by any significant amount as they don't have enough surface area. Also, they attract hydrophobic molecules (this is how foam fractionation works, via hydrophilia/hydrophobia of certain molecules) onto the bubbles and what do you get? A whole bunch of nutrient rich foam.
 
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jack the reaper

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whoa seamaiden, yer blowin my mind!
thanx! i think im startin to get it. waterfalls and cold water should do the trick. avoid treatments for pathogens and use a good clean bio-life/enzyme treatment.
 

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