PureBlend Pro advice for DWC noob

  • Thread starter singularity
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
S

singularity

Hi,

Looking to get my first grow in DWC.

Some say pbp has an odd burnt aftertaste, and on another forum someone said it produces horrible tasting herbs.. hay smell. In that case it'd looked like he tried it all, from flushing methods to curing to RO water, or at least he swore he did. Where that thread left off was "maybe there's too much N", and despite all his flushing his leaves were always green.

There's a few things I'd really like to avoid. One of which is producing buds that all taste the same from strain to strain. It seems to me like people defending pbp for producing fine tasty buds that don't all taste alike are also making use of additives like cha ching or equivalent. That seems to be a direct contradiction of their position? Why use flavor enhancers with pure blend pro if pure blend pro produces a fine tasting product by itself..?

I see others swearing by the basics. Some part pbp grow + some part pbp bloom, while saying all the additives didn't add to their yield, but then they don't speak of actual quality like taste or potency either. It also seems like that kind of a mix, where I think it ended flowering with 1:3 ration of grow/bloorm, would be rather high in N.

So I'd like to avoid that "hay" effect from too much N throughout bloom, and having them all taste the same. Another effect that I absolutely must avoid is too much P.

I once had the great misfortune of some beasters that sparkled and crackled as they burnt. The great side effect of that was to wake up in the middle of the night feeling like the back edge of an axe had been burried in my skull with the most intense crippling pain imaginable. It sucked, not your normal headache at all.

So while I see a lot of people using cha ching, I look at that and see 0N-50P.. noo thanks. I don't at all know at what point one risks that type of a result where it starts to spark and you wake up wishing you were dead but I'd rather not push that limit to find out. So as funny as it sounds I'm a little weary of all the bloom boosters for that reason, other than the ones like gravity that are known poison.

I hear the only way to guarantee full micros is with cal mag and hydroplex, which many people seem to think works well for frosting it over too. That's really very expensive stuff though.

Alternatively as a bloom booster previous recipies from botanicare employed pbp bloom only for the transition period, which by the ratios it does seem to be a transition period product from what I can tell, and then swap to bloom soil for the rest. Seems to be a big "fail" in their marketing bs for the bloom "hydro" when you look at that, but nobody seems to call them out on it.

I kind of have to assume that when I see people that use 1:1 grow/bloom through transition and then 1:3 grow/bloom through flowering, they are indeed using bloom "soil", and perhaps leaving that crucial part of information out?

So I'm wondering if I can get the result I'm after by skipping the "bloom hydro" and just getting "bloom soil". I'd mix it 1:1 with pbp grow through transition, skipping hydroplex and maybe using liquid karma and sweet raw.

Or would that leave me with a deficiency since I'm using RO water, that hydroplex would help with?

I was thinking of getting additional silica blast for pH up, as well as earth juice natural ph controller up/down.

How's that sound? Any tips?

Also, any info advice on doing "partial change-outs" to maintain beneficials? Could that be self defeating?

Lastly, I am not getting a chiller, there's no way in hell that I"ll be doing frozen bottles, and I'm kind of worried about temps already. CMH light supposedly doesn't radiat heat like HPS and that's what I'll be using. I'll also tape up the buckets with reflective tape, but the air pumps will be introducing warm air.

I was looking at 2X GH dual diaphragm pumps, each feeding a large airstone, so 2 stones per bucket.

I don't know if that'll be enough airflow vs heat to keep the nasty away.

What I would be willing to do is to get a cheap cooler, fill it with ice water and coil up the air hose through that. That could be made fairly efficient if splice a section of copper tubing into the airline and coil it up in the cooler which would drastically improve heat transfer.

Or should I just scrap all that crazy and get maxibloom/gro and see what bunk comes from it?

Thanks
 
sealed138

sealed138

First Starfighter
Supporter
Pbp with a few additives produces beautiful aromatic herb when done right.
As for with dwc I would recommend you look into something less organic like DM gold. There are plenty of threads on this topic to study up on.
 
philly kush

philly kush

Bin using pbp grow n bloom n liquid karma 4 a few years n never had any problems herb always smelled,taste,n burnt good never had hay smell.ITS ALL IN THE FLUSH CUT DRY N CURE PROCESS
 
justsomeguy

justsomeguy

just finished a maxibloom run with GH additives and hammerhead/moab, flushed on final phase. insanely smooth smoke, full flavor, buds look like they were in a blizzard. most strains were pretty light weight though. i think it took too long to get into full flower but its a perfect base ratio for ripening (5-15-14), very similar to pbp soil. thats probably why they have pbp bloom for the transition and cluster forming.

but seriously get a chiller or nutrients won't even matter. every cheap way around it I could think of has already been tried and failed.
 
S

singularity

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I couldn't really wait so here is what I did:

-Earth Juice Natural pH controller up/down
-Sweet Raw
-Aquashield and ZHO, In case something dark this way comes
-Silica Blast
-PBP Soil (2 gallons)
-PBP Bloom (1 gallon)
-Cal-Mag Plus (1 gallon)
-Liquid Karma (1 gallon)

Botanicare's website seems kind of broken for me, no access to their nutrient calculator which maybe they don't have? So I'll probably follow earlier, pre hydroplex, schedules of theirs that use the bloom-soil to finish up.

Instead of hitting it with the "hydro" version of bloom through transition though I'll just use a 50:50 mix of bloom soil and grow, unless someone convinces me different. I'll also cut their recommendations by half, and/or start low and work up to a PPM of 1200 or so, once I figure out how, and most likely attempt to use the LK and sweet sparingly.
 
S

singularity

just finished a maxibloom run with GH additives and hammerhead/moab, flushed on final phase. insanely smooth smoke, full flavor, buds look like they were in a blizzard. most strains were pretty light weight though. i think it took too long to get into full flower but its a perfect base ratio for ripening (5-15-14), very similar to pbp soil. thats probably why they have pbp bloom for the transition and cluster forming.

but seriously get a chiller or nutrients won't even matter. every cheap way around it I could think of has already been tried and failed.

That's kind of the result I'm hoping for as well. Also starting from seed.

Lots of things would be nice but a chiller is just not happening. I'm sure under current + chillers have also failed, so while it's ominus as fuck I'm hoping it's not a death sentence.

I'll be running CMH lights + tape up the buckets with reflective tape (and the black airlines too) which will keep radiant heating to a minimum.

My other defence will be 2X GH dual dag. air pumps with at least 2 stones per bucket.

Worst comes to worse I might do the cooling method on the air line since that would be half cheap. I don't see why that would fail when I'm not radiating a 1kw HPS on the buckets. If I used a copper tube coiled up in ice water it'll be blowing cold air into the buckets and cool them that way.

Specific lighting and 2 ~decent pumps aren't exactly cheap work arounds either, but they'll give me more return for the money spent than I think would a chiller, which will be famous last words if it all goes to shit.

Worse comes to worse I'll go hempy and let it sweat, but I'll give this a good shot, and I figure a few air pumps + cheap stones are equipment even a hempy grower can appreciate so I didn't go too far in the wrong direction.

I looked into hammerhead too but it seems the place I was ordering it all from didn't deal with any weed specific products, so no AN anything and no Canna.

Anyway I hope I made decent decisions so far but I guess it'll be awhile before any of us find out. I really wanted something sure fire but it seems it's always a bit of a gamble no matter what and all you can do is plan ahead as best you can.

I would do a grow journal to get more help since I'm on my own but one expense I spared was a camera. Def. appreciate the discussion though.

Cheers
 
S

singularity

Lost Post By: FINGERS
"I use the full line of Botanicare using r.o. water, and love it. It uses higher quality ingredients than most- and it's so pure I have never had to flush my medium EVER. I give it a solid 10-12 day flush and the buds end up smelly and tasty when dried....... Overall, I think it's the best fertilizer line I've ever used- and I've tried most of them at one time or another. Botanicare posts a helpful user chart on their website too which I follow closely."

Give Fingers a hand everybody
 
S

singularity

Interesting post Fingers. Can you elaborate on "never having to flush my medium", vs giving it a solid 12 day flush... I presume you refer to flushing salts out of soil mid grow vs the final flush?

I don't think I'll have that issue in DWC either. As per following their charts I think I'll either be attempting to do some add back, if possible, for typical reservoir maintenance using my meter. Though honestly I don't know what the hell I'm doing in that regard.

On one hand it would be great to learn how to do add backs properly in order to maintain peak nutrients at just the right level that the plants requires. On the other hand it's still kkkind of like guesswork because of not being able to monitor the exact nutrients that the plant is using.

The other complication is that I'm starting from seed, and I really want to be able to finish with.... something. So I have to account for a couple of males and so on. I have rapid rooters and air lift pump drips with 6" net pots that'll be filled with hydroton so, I'm thinking I should be Okay to start my seeds right in there. Any thoughts on that crazyness or should I take that conversation elsewhere? Anyway I was thinking of starting two or three per pot, just to account for loss of males and so forth. Of course if I do that then it would seem to throw off the add backs even more.

Should I just stick to 1 seedling per pot and grow that out in my bucket so that I can try feeding it more optimally.... what's the best way to go here?

The other option seems to be to just "follow the chart". While some say they have great results doing that, I still assume they follow it at half dosage?

I can't follow their chart exact as I didn't buy their entire line up. It was all just too much money and only using pure blend pro bloom for like a week is absurd justification for it. Instead I got PBP Bloom Soil, which the older charts use for finishing in place of the hydroplex that I also didn't buy.

Someone else on this forum, who said they are no longer participating, said their formula for success was a mix of grow and bloom, like 3:1 and then 1:1 in transition and 1:3 to finish. Those are not his exact ratios. I'm just going by memory for the sake of discussion.

That made a lot of sense to me though, and mixing it like that should more that allow me to forgo the week of bloom non soil formula.

Now I may have some sativa heavy leaning strains and I don't know what their nute requirements are like at all. So maybe trying to follow the chart in terms of target EC and its progression throughout the grow could be a huge mistake.

I do have a good combo meter so I should probably use it?

Lastly, I also have an RO kit. As of yet I still lack everything I need to connect it, and I'm not really very inclined on connecting it here at all at the moment. I checked the PPM of my tap water and shockingly it was only at 80. I know the chlorine is fairly high but I can bubble that off, and maybe it'll save on calmag. I can see how trying to control pH, with the water plant buffers left in there, could easily reek havoc on the nutrient profile though.

I'm just kind of thinking aloud here. I know the best solution is to use the RO that I paid for but.... you know how it is when you rent. I should kind of retain the option of packing it all up into a box, especially over the summer.

Anyway I've been doing a few tests with my air pumps and it turns out I can boil the buckets pretty damn good with them feeding 2 large cylindrical air stones. I'm going to feed 2 stones per 5 gallon bucket, with each bucket sharing 2 pumps, for a little redundancy.

I am hoping the heavy action will allow for .... higher temperatures than are idea. However I tested the heat added by the pump itself and it seems to be none at all. In one test, vs a control bucket, with cooler yet stabilized ambient temp, after running for one hour, the areated bucket was a half a degree or so cooler.

In a second test, I used a makeshift cooler/water filter, fashioned of a pressurized glass jar, filled with ice cubes, and a few inches of water to kind of filter the incoming air and cool it much as you'd see with a bong. In this test the ambient temp was stabilized at a higher temperature which, though it felt hot to me, was only 23 deg. After an hour of running that setup the ice was all melted, the filter jar still frosty cold, and the bubbled bucket was the exact same temperature as the control bucket which was the exact same temperature as ambient.

So that's kind of a mixed result but still very interesting. Keep in mind this is done in the dark with no lights shining on any air lines or buckets to heat anything up. But I think this is fairly conclusive that gh my dual diaphragm blue stone air pumps don't at all add any heat to the buckets!

I think the water filter might be an OK idea, but it's a lot noisier than no water filter... probably tolerable though. What's intolerable is having ice in it, which is very noisy and doesn't serve to cool the bucket at all.

Another thing that's completely intolerable is the included 4 port manifold with the air pump. It leaks like a sieve all around every port, creating some air pressure escaping and subsequent hissing noise. But even worse than that, the more the pump is opened up, the more you get the noise from the diaphragm hammering back and forth, and that's unacceptable.

Removing the leaky /noisy manifold, feeding the dual airlines directly into a glass jar through holes in the plastic screw on lid, with only an interference fit to seal them which is more than sufficient, and feeding the air stones through similar output lines from the lid, really quiets these pumps down to a faint hum, that's actually unnoticeable in the next room. So that's good news.
 
sky high

sky high

I would advise growing from clones in these type of systems, not seeds. Even if you try seeds...2-3 per netpot won't work because by the time you can sex them the roots will be intertwined and there will be no way to seperate them.

Yup....use the Combo meter religiously. (daily) Keep that fucker calibrated and on the nuts as well.

Buy a chiller. Ice just isn't gonna cut it. I've lost 2 grows cus i was an idiot and tried to beat the odds. Nope... not gonna happen. Temps over 70F will breed root rot and you will be wasting months of time....not to mention the frustration level that creeps in....

these grows are about alot more than what fert you use.....

Read...read...read. There are some great journals here. It's a well-worn path. Tag a grow and follow what someone else successfully did. It'll be the best thing ya ever did.

good luck

s h
 
Giddeon

Giddeon

I've ran full organics in my MPB's with the use of a bio filter. I would pre mix a 100 gal res with my nutes for the next week while flushing the system I would move the filter to the new res to start the filtering there after couple hours of running the filter the water is almost clear. Here is a link to pics of my filter the little one can hold pressure while the big garbage can filter is just an over flow type. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/13dawgz-hits-giddeons-mpbs.33045/page-2#post-600061
 
S

singularity

I forgot to mention that I also had to "fix" one of the gh dual diaphragm blue stone air pumps. It seems the connecting rod between the two diaphragms is free to rotate between them. It houses a pair of permanent magnets which are driven by coils. The magnets are rectangular so if that shaft rotates, they start to knock on the coils and that gets extremely loud. It's a simple matter of straightening it out and hoping it stays that way. It's probably a good idea to ensure the pumps are on a level surface for that reason.

-I'm not buying a chiller, and reading other people's grows that aren't like my own are of limited value at this point. I have obviously done my reading.

-If and when I cull a plant I can cut the rootball right back in order to ensure there won't be any decaying matter in the bucket. The remaining plant will grow its roots back in short order. There will still be the dead roots and stem in the net pot. My plant was to have the hydroton in the netpot infused with zho, and aquashield to keep it populated with beneficials.

If I run a continuous recirculating drip through the net pot, would it not also act as something of a bio filter? Maybe not so much to clean, but in order to house beneficials? I have heard AN guys advise a few bioballs in a small container poked full of holes, just sitting in the bottom of the bucket, in order to serve as such a housing.. anyone ever attempted this? Seems to me however that the roots themselves can serve this purpose in so far as the environment is favorable. And what of "partial changeouts". I have heard them referred to but not seen anyone discussing or doing them, other than perhaps the add back method, which is obviously a type of partial changeout.

At this point I need to figure out how to make what I have work best. I have seen people manufacturer consensus on other forums, and as moderators were able to constantly change their usernames. As they morphed appearances and kept repeating the same stupidity it lent the weight of an unanswered majority to really poor advice.

Part of that was how dual diaphragm pumps are no good because they add their heat to the bucket. Obviously not. Maybe a crappy, plastic encased, 2 dollar fishpump might, but then it might not be the heat so much as the lack of airflow.

I think using 2X the pumps that I do have and bubbling it fairly violently, which kind of gives a "thin film" areation (being the microfilm water layer between adjoining bubbles), is going to have to provide me breathing room in terms of DO content and temperature. Let's just say that no fish would be at all happy in that bucket, and hopefully the scum won't either.
 
F

fingers

Interesting post Fingers. Can you elaborate on "never having to flush my medium", vs giving it a solid 12 day flush... I presume you refer to flushing salts out of soil mid grow vs the final flush?



What I meant was often fertilizer salts build up in the medium during the grow and you have to flush the pots/medium to remove the salts so it's stops the low pH and/or the fertilizer burn/deficiency. The final flush is something totally different...... so yes, you got it right. My original point was, the salts are pure and don't build up in the medium as easily as other fertilizers so medium flushes are not necessary until the last 12 days of flowering. It's a fine product, but can be pricey unless you buy the really big containers.
 
I

indianman75

4
1
Bin using pbp grow n bloom n liquid karma 4 a few years n never had any problems herb always smelled,taste,n burnt good never had hay smell.ITS ALL IN THE FLUSH CUT DRY N CURE PROCESS
should i use a flushing chemical or just ph balanced tap water ?
last harvest i flushed that way still not what i wanted flushed for 10 days 6 feedings
should i flush longer with less water
i feed 3 gallon pot with about 2 gallon of water is that ok
help please
 
I

indianman75

4
1
should i use a flushing chemical or just ph balanced tap water ?
last harvest i flushed that way still not what i wanted flushed for 10 days 6 feedings
should i flush longer with less water
i feed 3 gallon pot with about 2 gallon of water is that ok
help please
this is 3rd harvest every one better than last but still not happy
 
S

singularity

this is 3rd harvest every one better than last but still not happy

Would have to know more specifics about your setup. Safe to assume from your post that you're growing in soil or other medium, not dwc?

So if you're talking about the first kind of flush, where your goal is to prevent a toxic built up, there are different ways to go about it from what I know, though I differ to greater experience.

For instance, you could use plain water every other "feeding" instead of giving it nutes all the time. That would work to prevent a build up.

Or you could just go midway, say around transition time when you change nutes to bloom, or some other interval, and flush the living hell out of it until the media runs clean.

Or maybe save that for more of an emergency situation and use the former method as it kind of helps prevent that build up from happening in the first place and is less stressful overall.

Despite that, you may actually want to research watering techniques.

What is it that you aren't happy about btw?
 
Top Bottom