PWM on clones, Will i ever be able to eradicate it?

[Effendi]

I believe it is entirely possible and even likely there is a species that can cause a systemic infection of a plant.

OK, again fair enough. I have no idea WHY you would choose to believe such a possibility exists, especially since it is imperative financially to KNOW a factor, not just hope one might

I'm really not sure why you would say "Likely". but you are once again correct..... there probably IS some species that can cause a systemic infection of a plant". Like TMV

A very wide blanket and unrelated to PM. But you're correct.

:)

 

[Effendi]

He says, still without actually posting a link corroborating any claims. It's cute that you think you should be taken seriously.

:)

If you take me seriously because I type the words you comprehend and agree with then that's pretty shallow.
In the same vein, if you disagree with me cause I called you out and hurt your feelings... rather than recognizing common sense, well then again, lets just agree that we don't know. That's much easier than having to face facts.

Being that ANYTHING can be proven showing a various array of specialty interest articles, I just don't put any credence in it.

Mostly because I don't think I'm smart enough to recognize bullshit when I read it.

You really should stick with agreeing to disagree. it's easier to dismiss ignorance when you claim the answer is irretrievable.

:)

ps...pipe down by the way, you're not even a beginner level troll. Instead of trying to throw what you think are sweet darts. Learn something already. Then come play with the producers.

Demo

 

[Kanzeon]

Mostly because I don't think I'm smart enough to recognize bullshit when I read it.

Yes, I agree. You are not smart enough to recognize bullshit when you read it. Well said.

 

[Effendi]

Also I was working on an organic farm when you started growing the one singular plant you have an idea of how to grow.

my bad. it's just that the one plant we speak of, had pm.....

Maybe calm your tits instead of coming in and being sensitive about being wrong.

lol. perfect. Thank you for setting me straight. I'm such a whipper snapper..... come curmudgeon.

Carry on. :)

 

[Effendi]

Yes, I agree. You are not smart enough to recognize bullshit when you read it. Well said.

Touche' .....except that in cases like yourself, one does not require a brain to recognize bullshit.
I mean, you clearly think you're a douche', I merely think you're uneducated.

I mean can't we just agree to disagree?

lol

 

[GNick55]

the strength of your h2o2 should been more around 5% strength., but not higher than 10% as that can kill the plant..
pm shows up when temps or humidity really fluctuate, growing at a steady temp and humidity 24/7 will help immensely with keeping it away..
milk is great i swear by it, but it only works in hot sunny! days or indoors with 1000 watt metal.. in needs the intense light to work properly..
science doesn’t even know yet if it’s systematic or not, they do know it’s different strains that affect north america and europe..
i try to stay updated on the topic..

 

[Kanzeon]

science doesn’t even know yet if it’s systematic or not, they do know it’s different strains that affect north america and europe..
i try to stay updated on the topic..

Exactly. Even the strains on the different coasts of North America- on the same plants- are different. BC winter cannabis PM is a completely different animal than mid-atlantic summer tomato PM.

There's no way to say that none of the strains are systemic, but once PM is visible on a plant, the mycelial web has been built on the plant surfaces. I choose to treat it as inherently systemic, because there's no way to say for certain that it's gone as long as that plant remains. It's like root aphids, lack of seeing it is not proof that PM is gone.

Some varieties go away with baking soda, some with milk, some are like BC or Bordeaux where spraying copper or sulfur are the only things that work.

Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi

Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi...Heffer, V., K.B. Johnson, M.L. Powelson, and N. Shishkoff. 2006. Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi anno 2006. The Plant Health Instructor. DOI: 10.1094/PHI-I-2006-0706-01 Heffer, V., M.L. Powelson, K.B. Johnson, and N. Shishkoff. Oregon State...

www.apsnet.org

"While most powdery mildew fungi produce epiphytic mycelium, a few genera produce hyphae that are within the leaf tissue; this is known as endophytic growth."

So some are systemic in the sense that they live in the leaf tissue, and some aren't. Imagine that.

 

[GNick55]

Exactly. Even the strains on the different coasts of North America- on the same plants- are different. BC winter cannabis PM is a completely different animal than mid-atlantic summer tomato PM.

There's no way to say that none of the strains are systemic, but once PM is visible on a plant, the mycelial web has been built on the plant surfaces. There's no way to say for certain that it's gone as long as that plant remains, and lack of seeing it is not proof that PM is gone.

Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi

Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi...Heffer, V., K.B. Johnson, M.L. Powelson, and N. Shishkoff. 2006. Identification of Powdery Mildew Fungi anno 2006. The Plant Health Instructor. DOI: 10.1094/PHI-I-2006-0706-01 Heffer, V., M.L. Powelson, K.B. Johnson, and N. Shishkoff. Oregon State...

www.apsnet.org

my thought, which means nothing haha..
if you see the very first sign of it, i mean like the first spot on the plant you got a good chance of getting rid of it, as long as you treat the whole plant.
the longer it’s sits and spreads the harder it is if not impossible to get rid of it, providing your grow area was cleaned etc etc..
so i kinda feel it can infect the plant for its life.. weather it shows up or not, i could kinda notice growth, leaves.. etc were just not right even though there was no signs of it even buds didn’t finish properly..
anyhoo who knows just hope they get a damn cure for it, which we can use indoors soon..
All i know is that stuff is Evil!!! and it can live on a speck of dead plant material in pretty much any conditions for a year or two!
so remember that when your cleaning!!!

 

[Kanzeon]

so i kinda feel it can infect the plant for its life.. weather it shows up or not, i could kinda notice growth, leaves.. etc were just not right even though there was no signs of it even buds didn’t finish properly..

Exactly my experience when trying to "grow through it" as well. Even if the species of PM isn't endophytic, once it's visible it's already very established.

There can be a big difference in vigor pre and post-PM, which is why I initially said that I'd get rid of any infected plants unless the genetics were something killer.

 

[GNick55]

Exactly my experience when trying to "grow through it" as well. Even if the species of PM isn't endophytic, once it's visible it's already very established.

There can be a big difference in vigor pre and post-PM, which is why I initially said that I'd get rid of any infected plants unless the genetics were something killer.

exactly, i did the exact same thing., just wasn’t worth it in the end.. also by trying to get the plants finished your just giving the wpm more places to hide for later grows., first sign of it now and a quick decision is made and i get to a total clean up.. and whatever i decide..

 

[KingTubby]

It is not black and white... WPM is many different species. Sorry but you are wrong. Like with almost anything in cannabis growing, over simplification is the problem. It is dependant on species responsible for the infection.

At the very least I would isolate and treat it giving plenty of time to confirm or deny if that particular species is systemic or not... if this cannot be done then IMO cut it, burn it, burry it or all of the above and treat the remaining plants. I would not add anything new until it's confirmed to be gone.

What you fail to realize is what I pointed out in my first post... PM is not PM there are tons of species. The PM that affects grapes is not likely and in fact highly doubtful to be the species that affect cannabis

Out of the 700 or so species of PM, which ones exactly are you saying are systemic?

 

[KingTubby]

I was speaking in the creation of spores and transmission... not the infection in the plant. I believe it is entirely possible and even likely there is a species that can cause a systemic infection of a plant.

So, it's just a belief you have, or do you have some sort of evidence that there is a species of PM that grows inside of the plant's vascular system, and then pops out in a different area from where the infection occurred?

 

[GNick55]

Out of the 700 or so species of PM, which ones exactly are you saying are systemic?

there’s only two types that affect cannabis plants

 

[Kanzeon]

"While most powdery mildew fungi produce epiphytic mycelium, a few genera produce hyphae that are within the leaf tissue; this is known as endophytic growth."

"Endophytic fungi are microfungi that internally infect living plant tissues without causing any visible manifestation of disease and live in mutualistic association with plants for at least a part of their life cycle."

Endophytic Fungus - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

Endophytic PM infections are, by any reasonable definition, systemic. So it's reasonable to say that some PM is systemic.

 

[Aqua Man]

So, it's just a belief you have, or do you have some sort of evidence that there is a species of PM that grows inside of the plant's vascular system, and then pops out in a different area from where the infection occurred?

Have you read the article I linked? I'm no expert on PM but I do know from yrs of experience that what's once thought as fact changes as more studies are done, we gain a better understanding and evolution takes its course. What I'm saying is there is some evidence that some strain of PM can be systemic... now if those strains affect cannabis I can't say but IMO it's likely that one exists.... just because it's not clearly defined to my knowledge and there may be does not mean it does not exist. Like I said I'm not dismissing that it may not be in the strains that affect cannabis but I would say it's more than likely that a strain that can infect cannabis systemically already exists even if it didn't before.

I'm saying there is no way possible to say definitively that it does or does not at this time

 

[Effendi]

Endophytic PM infections are, by any reasonable definition, systemic. So it's reasonable to say that some PM is systemic.

Dude, you can't redefine a word to fit your narrative, It's only reasonable to say you're in great shape because of your jumps to conclusion.

Please refer back to page 1 where KT clearly posts the case.

Powdery Mildew and Fungicides - a background | Quest Climate

Quest dives into the basics of powdery mildew and fungicides. Beyond that we'll look at steps to avoiding and treating this fungus.

www.questclimate.com

View attachment 1113144

I'm saying there is no way possible to say definitively that it does or does not at this time

lol, kind of like God right?

except that since we KNOW that there are only TWO types of Cannabis PM and that neither of them are in any way Vascular, we can mark that up to . WE KNOW.

So I have to say this. I have BEEN where a couple of you are. I argued hard with REAL producers about "my experience" in PM being systemic. Finally someone I respect the most simple said, Dude you are just wrong, stop trying to prove the negative of something we already know the science on.

I get it Kanzeon, this ain't your first rodeo, yet you are so convinced you are right, you even changed the meaning of words so that they redefine pm as something else that may have characteristics of vascular activity so that "In a sense" pm is systemic.

Sorry, not even close to the case.

What's crazy to me is that all of your personal actions on your plants suggest you KNOW it's a surface/ph issue, (hence the type of fixes) yet you still argue that it's systemic. If you really thought it was systemic, you would be using Eagle 20, but since you're organic, that's not an option.

hmm, good luck in dealing with your issues.

Also I was working on an organic farm when you started growing the one singular plant you have an idea of how to grow. Maybe calm your tits instead of coming in and being sensitive about being wrong.

OK, well here's me holding that bud on the front page of the Seattle times a decade ago.

Seattle’s first cannabis farmers market attracts several hundred Sunday

Sunday was the first Cannabis Farmers Market in Seattle. An estimated 600 medical-marijuana patients strolled through the doors of the Little Red Studio in the South Lake Union neighborhood to partake.

www.seattletimes.com

ciao'

 

[Cookoo4Coco]

Didnt realize PWM was so controversial! Im not sure what the percentage of H202 im using. Anybody know how to calculate that? ive been putting 1ml of 38%per 800ml water

Anyways haven't gotten around to the baking soda test. Ive been spraying with the h202 every morning and havent see anything so its at least suppressed for now. I caught it pretty early with only 3-6 leaves with visible spores. Trimmed off most of those and been spraying the whole plant.

I have a good feeling ill be able to get rid of it.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[KingTubby]

Have you read the article I linked? I'm no expert on PM but I do know from yrs of experience that what's once thought as fact changes as more studies are done, we gain a better understanding and evolution takes its course. What I'm saying is there is some evidence that some strain of PM can be systemic... now if those strains affect cannabis I can't say but IMO it's likely that one exists.... just because it's not clearly defined to my knowledge and there may be does not mean it does not exist. Like I said I'm not dismissing that it may not be in the strains that affect cannabis but I would say it's more than likely that a strain that can infect cannabis systemically already exists even if it didn't before.

I'm saying there is no way possible to say definitively that it does or does not at this time

Yes I read the article. Unless I missed it, there was no evidence in the article that PM is systemic.

Much like @Effendi I used to believe that PM was systemic too. I have learned since then that it isn't. If you have evidence to the contrary (not casual speculation of the possibility), please post that evidence.

 

[KingTubby]

Didnt realize PWM was so controversial! Im not sure what the percentage of H202 im using. Anybody know how to calculate that? ive been putting 1ml of 38%per 800ml water

A 1 to 10 ratio of 38% H2O2 to water will give you the approx strength of over the counter H2O2 (3%).

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes I read the article. Unless I missed it, there was no evidence in the article that PM is systemic.

Much like @Effendi I used to believe that PM was systemic too. I have learned since then that it isn't. If you have evidence to the contrary (not casual speculation of the possibility), please post that evidence.

Hmmm I think we may be on different pages... im not saying that there is for cannabis. I'm saying it's possible and some PM species are not just superficial. These species may not be specific to cannabis. But they evolution of these organisms happen quickly and it's possible one exists or may evolve to do so.

Copy pasted from that article.

Powdery mildews, which typically grow superficially, produce microscopic structures called appressoria that help attach mycelia to plant surfaces. Specialized hyphal outgrowths termed haustoria penetrate host cells to absorb nutrients. In a small percentage of species the fungus forms hyphae that grow within host tissue.1, 2, 3

Further to this... this is a discussion and I will post what I like. Much like you can. So I would appreciate the same courtesy and respect I have given on the topic.