Pyrethrum Vs Bennies?

[Theoneandonly Z]

Alright Cap, I have another one for ya. I have been looking at the effect of pyrethrum vs beneficial microbes and what not, but i havent found a conclusion. If i use a Pyrethrum based spray or used as a very light drench, would this disrupt my soil food web? The only info i can find is that it kills beneficial insects like honey bees... The reason i ask is due to learning the many techniques of fighting crazy pests. Thanks man.

 

[NagaKing]

Pyrethrum will kill all insects, unless they have built up a resistance.
But that generally only happens in pests.
As they're the target species.
So yea, it'll disrupt the soil food web.
Go with the bennies.
It's how nature does it!

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Pyrethrum will kill all insects, unless they have built up a resistance.
But that generally only happens in pests.
As they're the target species.
So yea, it'll disrupt the soil food web.
Go with the bennies.
It's how nature does it!

right, trust me i get og biowar by the kilo.

I know pyrethrum kills insects, but what about microbial life - bacteria and fungi? <this is what im asking.

 

[Natural]

hey Z...I'm on the fence about Pyrethrum..well in particular the bombs. Been reading that they're not super healthy..I know that the Pyrethrum breaks down real quick like..but what about other ingredients? I'm just using in empty rooms sometimes. What source have you found? How are you getting it into the soil? I'm pretty sure the sprays wouldn't affect the soil bennies..wouldn't ya think?

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

hey Z...I'm on the fence about Pyrethrum..well in particular the bombs. Been reading that they're not super healthy..I know that the Pyrethrum breaks down real quick like..but what about other ingredients? I'm just using in empty rooms sometimes. What source have you found? How are you getting it into the soil? I'm pretty sure the sprays wouldn't affect the soil bennies..wouldn't ya think?

http://www.montereylawngarden.com/d...cts/TakeDownGardenSpray-2-column(07)-1012.pdf

I was wondering what a drench of this would do to RA. It was suggested in an article i read which brought my curiosity. I outsource work with other growers and one dude has a bad problem, OG Biowar isnt a quick fix, i would like to get them on their back leg, then let the foliar pack do work.
I was just curios to what impact they do on any present microbes. Not much of a worry, just would like to know lol

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

oh shit, i just realized that Take Down contains Pyrethins, not pyrethrum... :banghead: easy mis-read mistake.:asshat: Are they related?

Edit to add: Answered my own question, yes they are related. fuck i look cool today....

Edit to add: i smoked a minute ago so i got an excuse...:cigar: fucking jumping to conclusions and shit

 

[Natural]

Nice..I like Monterey's stuff. Isn't pyrethrum an oil? I could be wrong, but I would expect it to be similar to a neem oil..especially since it's over 80% canola oil as well. I suspect plants would show a little burn, putting oil on the roots...as would neem. Even go as far as assuming it wouldn't be good for bennies either. i bet Monterey wouldn't have a problem suggesting how long before you can inoculate the soil with bennies again. I would think a couple of weeks bare minimum..but that's all conjecture on my part.

 

[Natural]

My point I guess, is to go one way or the other. I've never battled RA's, but I know they are a brutal pest. If bennies is the way..I'm sure you wanna try a soil cover like DE or gnatnix as well as any predator that might work..as well as an over-load of sticky traps..maybe even some tanglefoot. This is going to be my strategy early on for fungus gnats. I can't afford $200 bottles of azamax only to have wiped out any bennies and then not work so well.
RA's different story..maybe try and kill as many as you can with the foliar pack..then implement the oil? Good luck to your friend..heart goes out.

 

[midwestdensies]

oh shit, i just realized that Take Down contains Pyrethins, not pyrethrum... :banghead: easy mis-read mistake.:asshat: Are they related?

Edit to add: Answered my own question, yes they are related. fuck i look cool today....

Edit to add: i smoked a minute ago so i got an excuse...:cigar: fucking jumping to conclusions and shit

Smokin on the job. I'm telling

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Smokin on the job. I'm telling

hahaha u know me :mask:

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

My point I guess, is to go one way or the other. I've never battled RA's, but I know they are a brutal pest. If bennies is the way..I'm sure you wanna try a soil cover like DE or gnatnix as well as any predator that might work..as well as an over-load of sticky traps..maybe even some tanglefoot. This is going to be my strategy early on for fungus gnats. I can't afford $200 bottles of azamax only to have wiped out any bennies and then not work so well.
RA's different story..maybe try and kill as many as you can with the foliar pack..then implement the oil? Good luck to your friend..heart goes out.

Done it all! gnat nix isnt bad. i personally dont have problems too much. check out my RA thread, its pretty extensive. i was gonna suggest this^^ product on that thread, but i wasnt too sure of the negative effects on a living medium... hence this conversation that im enjoying very much. thanks for chiming in, ur opinion is valid in my book!

 

[Natural]

thanks man. you know what would be pretty cool..but not practical? breed these babies in a controlled environment, where we can test various oils on them. I'm a toddler when it comes to understanding RA's and essential oils though. I know Aligee has got a good formula for battling RA's..maybe he'll chime in. I think it's similar to oils for mites..maybe cedar, rosemary, etc. Those would go well with that Monterey I would would think.

 

[Capulator]

I will look in to it but am super busy right now. My initial guess is that you will want to reintroduce bennies a week after using pyrethrins.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

I will look in to it but am super busy right now. My initial guess is that you will want to reintroduce bennies a week after using pyrethrins.

right on man, no rush. You answered my last question so well that you opened a can worms! lol jk, i wont pester you too much:jimlad:

 

[SierraFarmer]

Alright Cap, I have another one for ya. I have been looking at the effect of pyrethrum vs beneficial microbes and what not, but i havent found a conclusion. If i use a Pyrethrum based spray or used as a very light drench, would this disrupt my soil food web? The only info i can find is that it kills beneficial insects like honey bees... The reason i ask is due to learning the many techniques of fighting crazy pests. Thanks man.

Never use a pyrethrins on any organic matter. Pyrethrins are oil based and will lead to major problem. Pyrethrins are illegal in CA due to it causes cancer in heavy doses and it's very likely to cause extreme mutations when used as an IGR (Integrated Growth Regulator). I work in the pest control industry mainly commercial buildings, Pyrethrins are the most dangerous poisons I carry in my work truck. Especially in powder form, 1 teaspoon inhaled will kill a 200lb adult. Be careful and realize professionals are required to wear a FULL FACE RESPIRATOR according to the MSDS when dealing with ALL Pyrethrins.

 

[green punk]

Pyrethrins and pyrethrum both come from the Chrysanthemum. The levels in those bombs and monterey are what makes stuff resistant. You need to use a real concentrate like Evergreen 60-6 or ExciteR to actually kill the pests. That low level stuff is bs.

 

[Seamaiden]

Green punk, perhaps the overuse and/or misuse of the products has also contributed to resistance, rather like as is the case with many antibiotics.

Never use a pyrethrins on any organic matter. Pyrethrins are oil based and will lead to major problem. Pyrethrins are illegal in CA due to it causes cancer in heavy doses and it's very likely to cause extreme mutations when used as an IGR (Integrated Growth Regulator). I work in the pest control industry mainly commercial buildings, Pyrethrins are the most dangerous poisons I carry in my work truck. Especially in powder form, 1 teaspoon inhaled will kill a 200lb adult. Be careful and realize professionals are required to wear a FULL FACE RESPIRATOR according to the MSDS when dealing with ALL Pyrethrins.

Are you certain that all pyrethrins are illegal in California? I'm using a simple operator's permit on my organic operation (not registered or certified at this point) and I'm allowed to use products like Pyganic. Sittin' here looking at it on my CalAgPermits page. The CDC says pyrethrins and pyrethroids are not classifiable in terms of how likely they are to cause cancer, so I'm not sure where or how the state of California might be making that determination.

I personally won't use such products during the daytime, when there is any wind whatsoever, in other words I won't use them if I cannot control drift, which is really the main issue for me. It does make sense that putting oils into the rhizosphere could or would cause problems, but that's just thinking about it, not actually scoping it.

 

[SierraFarmer]

I

Green punk, perhaps the overuse and/or misuse of the products has also contributed to resistance, rather like as is the case with many antibiotics.

Are you certain that all pyrethrins are illegal in California? I'm using a simple operator's permit on my organic operation (not registered or certified at this point) and I'm allowed to use products like Pyganic. Sittin' here looking at it on my CalAgPermits page. The CDC says pyrethrins and pyrethroids are not classifiable in terms of how likely they are to cause cancer, so I'm not sure where or how the state of California might be making that determination.

I personally won't use such products during the daytime, when there is any wind whatsoever, in other words I won't use them if I cannot control drift, which is really the main issue for me. It does make sense that putting oils into the rhizosphere could or would cause problems, but that's just thinking about it, not actually scoping it.

I have my license here in NV/CA and I am not even allowed to transport my Pyrethrins in CA. Products such as DemonMax, ExcitR, and Drione Dust now state in the MSDS that they are illegal in CA. And yes you are correct IMO that California is stating it causes cancer when I can't seem to find any evidence beside from CA Dept. Of Ag. We have had too many meetings on CA ever changing laws it's very hard to keep up with them lol. There may be Pyrethrins that are legal in CA but every RUP (Restricted Use Pesticides), which means you need a license to handle it, with Pyrethrins I can get ahold of is now illegal. This is a tragedy because I frequently used DemonMax alternating with Suspend and other water based products. Nothing does the trick like Pyrethrins

 

[SierraFarmer]

Also I can't believe people would use this on their plants or in the soil. The stuff I carry burns your skin on contact. Couldn't believe a plant would survive that. There are many ways to control pest without pesticides. Integrated Pest Management is on Ca Dept. of Ag website and it can help diagnose and possible treatment options besides pesticides. I try to use this method as much as possible to help eliminate pests tolerance buildup to pesticides.

 

[Seamaiden]

I

I have my license here in NV/CA and I am not even allowed to transport my Pyrethrins in CA. Products such as DemonMax, ExcitR, and Drione Dust now state in the MSDS that they are illegal in CA. And yes you are correct IMO that California is stating it causes cancer when I can't seem to find any evidence beside from CA Dept. Of Ag. We have had too many meetings on CA ever changing laws it's very hard to keep up with them lol. There may be Pyrethrins that are legal in CA but every RUP (Restricted Use Pesticides), which means you need a license to handle it, with Pyrethrins I can get ahold of is now illegal. This is a tragedy because I frequently used DemonMax alternating with Suspend and other water based products. Nothing does the trick like Pyrethrins

Yeah, geez, they just changed the egg handling laws on me, too.