Question about apple cider vinegar to reduce water PH

[Cbdfool]

So why when I told the dude at the grow store how high my filtered water PH is and that I need a ph down method.. he said I DONT want to use ph down in living/super soils? That’s when he grabbed a 10$ gaia glacial rock dust and said mix that in with the soil and just PH down the water with vinegar… all the different answers I hear just has me confused lol

also how MUCH glacial rock dust should I mix into the soil? And do I mix mix it in or just kinda put it on the top and mix the top layer?
I heard Glacial rock dust won’t affect the soils PH really so putting some in to counteract any negative affects of using apple cider vinegar to lower my waters PH would only be beneficial? does this sound true?
did the guy just scam me into buying glacial rock dust that I did not need?
I would’ve preferred to use stepwell supersoil in all my pots but I couldn’t lug the big bag home had to get the Gaia living soil.. worried if I can just treat them both mediums as the same or not.. I know the stepwell soil is very rich this year so I might need to feed nutes to the Gaia pots first, but other than that just wondering/worried if there’s a big difference in ph between both soils *shrug* as my buddy said Gaia has a higher PH out of the bag

He’s there to up-sell you everything he can.

 

[mysticepipedon]

I have never heard a grower say, "Don't forget the glacial rock dust!" or looked at a plant that was hurting and suggested glacial rock dust. I did have a soil science professor who laughed about glacial rock dust — there is some bro-science in general farming, though a lot less than in cannabis growing.

What's GRD got in it that would counteract the supposedly bad effects of apple cider vinegar? And what are those bad effects? Get that salesman in here, dammit! He's got some questions to deal with!

 

[NewGrower42069]

I have never heard a grower say, "Don't forget the glacial rock dust!" or looked at a plant that was hurting and suggested glacial rock dust. I did have a soil science professor who laughed about glacial rock dust — there is some bro-science in general farming, though a lot less than in cannabis growing.

What's GRD got in it that would counteract the supposedly bad effects of apple cider vinegar? And what are those bad effects? Get that salesman in here, dammit! He's got some questions to deal with!

He said the ACV will kill off magnesium and calcium I think? Meh I’ve tried to forget everything he told me already lmao I’m definitely gonna return the GRD and use the exchange to get droppers and some nutes for when my living/super soils are all out
which in the stepwell supersoil is when the plant about 2-3 feet and in the Gaia living soil after 4 weeks

 

[AfghaniGuy]

Ok thanks! yah I figured the guy at the store was maybe not knowing exactly what he was saying lol.
my filtered water Ph is super high. Literally 8.2-8.4 just measured again. So u guys are saying a cheap bottle of PH down is fine and won’t hurt the super/living soils I’m using?
Last question then I’m set to begin! :))
my newly sprouting seeds are gonna be planted in a peat pellet and planted directly into the final outdoor growing pot. Should I use clear plastic plant protectors until the seeds grow into a more strong seedling? I want to get the plants used to their outdoor environment/pot immediately and using peat pellet to avoid nute brn from my rich supersoils. It can get quite windy on my balcony also would I want to keep the plastic plant protectors closed on open (there’s a little hole for air at the top which can be opened or closed
edit: as for the guy at the grow store.. he’s a complete stranger. It sucks he isn’t into the finer details as he works at a grow store. But he seems like the type who wouldn’t do well with someone telling him hes spreading misinformation

An even cheaper bottle of distilled white vinegar is easier to use and far less expensive. I'm on my third grow on my first gallon of white vineger.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Ok thanks! yah I figured the guy at the store was maybe not knowing exactly what he was saying

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[Week4Bytch]

Cause hydro store guy doesn’t know what he is talking about.

No he was right, vinegar will break down calcium. Especially Calcium Carbonate. Hard tap water will have calcium carbonate, lots of it. One camp I'm talking to claims that vinegar will break that calcium carbonate bond to a usable calcium. And then another group will say that vinegar is bad overall for your soil as it kills off calcium... it is vinegar, ever do them bubble exercises in your science class? Vinegar is used to clean lime deposits off your faucets and shower walls.. what's it gonna do to your calcium in the soil? So yeah, he was right this whole time, get the glacial rock dust if your using vinegar as a pH down.

And the only reason this dudes pH was so high after filtering it was because he didn't rinse out the charcoal filter to begin with. I bet after some use the pH of the filtered water had settled.

Potential causes of the original pH increase in untreated carbons include leaching of alkaline constituents from the carbon's ash and ion exchange interactions with surface groups on the carbon which generate hydroxide (OH-) ions that raise the water's pH.

 

[chamenon]

No he was right, vinegar will break down calcium. Especially Calcium Carbonate. Hard tap water will have calcium carbonate, lots of it. One camp I'm talking to claims that vinegar will break that calcium carbonate bond to a usable calcium. And then another group will say that vinegar is bad overall for your soil as it kills off calcium... it is vinegar, ever do them bubble exercises in your science class? Vinegar is used to clean lime deposits off your faucets and shower walls.. what's it gonna do to your calcium in the soil? So yeah, he was right this whole time, get the glacial rock dust if your using vinegar as a pH down.

And the only reason this dudes pH was so high after filtering it was because he didn't rinse out the charcoal filter to begin with. I bet after some use the pH of the filtered water had settled.

Potential causes of the original pH increase in untreated carbons include leaching of alkaline constituents from the carbon's ash and ion exchange interactions with surface groups on the carbon which generate hydroxide (OH-) ions that raise the water's pH.

I'm in the same boat and this thread isn't too old so I'm reviving it. I use tap water, filtered through Brita as well. I try to do this living soil thing too so I'm trying to be careful about not harming the microbes in the soil.

My tap water pH is about 7.4 according to my cheapo pH pen that is calibrated to pH 6.86 solution. It reads distilled water at 7 pH so it seems like it has acceptable accuracy for now. The water that I filtered and left to rest about 2-3 days read 6.9 pH. Brita is thoroughly rinsed and filtered a lot of water already. I've been told that I'm having pH problems with my plants. My question is, if I use some white vinegar to adjust my pH, can I use oyster shell powder instead of glacial dust rock for replenishing the calcium? Is so, should I test the pH before or after adding the oyster shell powder?

What's the safest way to lower pH without harming microbes in the soil?

 

[Week4Bytch]

I'm in the same boat and this thread isn't too old so I'm reviving it. I use tap water, filtered through Brita as well. I try to do this living soil thing too so I'm trying to be careful about not harming the microbes in the soil.

My tap water pH is about 7.4 according to my cheapo pH pen that is calibrated to pH 6.86 solution. It reads distilled water at 7 pH so it seems like it has acceptable accuracy for now. The water that I filtered and left to rest about 2-3 days read 6.9 pH. Brita is thoroughly rinsed and filtered a lot of water already. I've been told that I'm having pH problems with my plants. My question is, if I use some white vinegar to adjust my pH, can I use oyster shell powder instead of glacial dust rock for replenishing the calcium? Is so, should I test the pH before or after adding the oyster shell powder?

What's the safest way to lower pH without harming microbes in the soil?

Man.... I'm gonna try and answer this one for ya bro. In layman's terms, I'll try anyways.. the easy answer is the soil. The best way to lower the pH is to get the soil right. Even if you watering with 5.8-6.9pH water... because your roots are not absorbing nutrients from the water., they are absorbing it from the soil. Hence the term..LIVING SOIL, IF your soils pH is off then most likely you have the enough calcium there, just need to drop the pH down, of your soil. A compost tea will do that quick. An inch or two of some good earthworm castings will help. Top dressing with some used coffee grounds will help.

 

[chamenon]

Man.... I'm gonna try and answer this one for ya bro. In layman's terms, I'll try anyways.. the easy answer is the soil. The best way to lower the pH is to get the soil right. Even if you watering with 5.8-6.9pH water... because your roots are not absorbing nutrients from the water., they are absorbing it from the soil. Hence the term..LIVING SOIL, IF your soils pH is off then most likely you have the enough calcium there, just need to drop the pH down, of your soil. A compost tea will do that quick. An inch or two of some good earthworm castings will help. Top dressing with some used coffee grounds will help.

Thank you, I already have plenty of worm castings (about %20 of total volume) in the soil. I've been doing compost teas here and there but plants are still stalled and looking super unhealthy. They were always growing slow but lately they completely stopped growing, I've been looking at the same exact scene for at least last two weeks. I'm attaching some photos as a reference.

I've been told it's likely my pH is creating the problems, so now I purchased a pH pen, calibrated it and after reading around 6.9 pH, I just added a dash of white vinegar. Dropped it to 6.25. Added a little bit of fish hydrolysate and now the pH pen is reading 2.5 pH. Would you have any opinions why I'm getting such a drastic change with fish hydrolysate?

Thanks for the compost tea suggestion, I will start another compost tea brew tonight and feed them that on Monday.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Thank you, I already have plenty of worm castings (about %20 of total volume) in the soil. I've been doing compost teas here and there but plants are still stalled and looking super unhealthy. They were always growing slow but lately they completely stopped growing, I've been looking at the same exact scene for at least last two weeks. I'm attaching some photos as a reference.

I've been told it's likely my pH is creating the problems, so now I purchased a pH pen, calibrated it and after reading around 6.9 pH, I just added a dash of white vinegar. Dropped it to 6.25. Added a little bit of fish hydrolysate and now the pH pen is reading 2.5 pH. Would you have any opinions why I'm getting such a drastic change with fish hydrolysate?

Thanks for the compost tea suggestion, I will start another compost tea brew tonight and feed them that on Monday.

The fish hydrolasite is acidic. I wouldnt use the vinegar, your water is not that far off from 7 which is the max organic soil ceiling. What week are you in veg and what's your soils makeup? How often do you water and whats your humidity? My current guess is your either your soil is too rich causing tip burn, over watering, or you have a potassium and/or manganese deficiency. We have to make sure a few things check out. If your humidity is too low then your plants are going through the nutrients faster than they need it.

 

[m8ty]

This is why is best to get a bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forrest to use with tap water, no need to pH or add anything, just water once a week and enjoying the harvest

 

[chamenon]

The fish hydrolasite is acidic. I wouldnt use the vinegar, your water is not that far off from 7 which is the max organic soil ceiling. What week are you in veg and what's your soils makeup? How often do you water and whats your humidity? My current guess is your either your soil is too rich causing tip burn, over watering, or you have a potassium and/or manganese deficiency. We have to make sure a few things check out. If your humidity is too low then your plants are going through the nutrients faster than they need it.

-I'm on week 10 of vegetation, I germinated them September 9th. I was planning to veg for 8 weeks then switch to flowering because in my previous grow I was struggling to keep them small enough for my grow space at week 6. (They were different genetics though)

-The soil I'm using is Dirtcraft Organics, G-Force. It's sold as living soil, I didn't want to mix my own to try this living soil approach so I wanted to rely on a ready to use soil. It has coco coir, instead of sphagnum peat moss which I'm thinking might be the source of my problems? I also mixed it with some quality earthworm castings and Bio-Live and left it to cook about 10 days. Used a little more Bio-Live and Xtreme Gardening mycorrhizae at the root pocket during transplant. I also used very small amounts of Bio-Live to top dress maybe every 3rd week (like 3 times in total so far). When nothing worked, I purchased some fish hydrolysate thinking that I'd need quick release fertilizers because plants weren't growing. I thought maybe 3 gal pots are too small for healthy soil microbiome and they may not be breaking down the dry amendments I'm adding. I cut all that about 2 weeks ago, since someone with more experience in living soil told me that I'm over fertilizing. But I've also been told that my plants need more nutrients.
-I used to water whenever the top 2 inches of the soil dry out, then I read that I need to keep the soil moist in living soil applications. So I started doing %5 of the soil volume every other day. The same person suggested that I should do that amount every 3rd day so I've been doing that, I'm using some cardboards as mulch to prevent the top soil drying.

-I think potassium deficiency matches my leaf symptoms but both Bio-Live and Fish hydrolysate has decent amounts of potassium, as well as nitrogen and phosphorus.

 

[chamenon]

This is why is best to get a bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forrest to use with tap water, no need to pH or add anything, just water once a week and enjoying the harvest

Oh yeah, I learned my lesson, I had zero problems as a complete novice using Ocean Forest and it seems like it's still the way to go. I'll purchase some and transplant them into FFOF as soon as possible.

 

[HerbalEdu]

apple cider vinegar can be used as a rooting hormone very diluted:

Making Vinegar Rooting Hormone

A teaspoon of vinegar in 5 to 6 cups (1.2-1.4 L.) of water is enough. Any type of apple cider vinegar at your local supermarket is fine. To use your homemade rooting hormone, dip the bottom of the cutting in the solution before “sticking” the cutting in rooting medium.

i don't think it's good to adjust pH ... Using vinegar temporarily reduce the pH of water which is not stable for longer time.

as every one said get some pH down and or up it's cheap and will last forever ...

 

[chamenon]

apple cider vinegar can be used as a rooting hormone very diluted:

Making Vinegar Rooting Hormone

A teaspoon of vinegar in 5 to 6 cups (1.2-1.4 L.) of water is enough. Any type of apple cider vinegar at your local supermarket is fine. To use your homemade rooting hormone, dip the bottom of the cutting in the solution before “sticking” the cutting in rooting medium.

i don't think it's good to adjust pH ... Using vinegar temporarily reduce the pH of water which is not stable for longer time.

as every one said get some pH down and or up it's cheap and will last forever ...

Thank you, I can buy pH up and down, which worked great for me previously, I just can't find a definitive answer if that's going to be harmful to the soil microbes, since it's not organic. What do you think? Would a couple of drops of pH down harm anything? I think I also can use the fish hydrolysate I have for lowering my pH as well, but I'm not sure how long it'll keep the pH down.

 

[Natep]

Just get some general hydroponic ph down & up to have on hand. Use it as needed.

If you are doing organic do not do this. Synthetic will kill your microbes. The acid is not ok for an organic grow.

 

[Natep]

Why are you filtering the water? If you are going organic the only thing you need to filter out is chlorine. You can do that with a tv Carbon filter.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Why are you filtering the water? If you are going organic the only thing you need to filter out is chlorine. You can do that with a tv Carbon filter.

I use to RO my water and saw no difference in my grow (this summer ) when doing it, so went back to tap and am using garden hose charcoal filter to get the chlorine out. You could just let the water gas off for 48 hours too in a bucket. Lot more convenient to use the charcoal filter from the hose.

 

[Natep]

I use to RO my water and saw no difference in my grow (this summer ) when doing it, so went back to tap and am using garden hose charcoal filter to get the chlorine out. You could just let the water gas off for 48 hours too in a bucket. Lot more convenient to use the charcoal filter from the hose.

Completely agree.

 

[JKash]

No vinegar, lemon juice, or the like.

PH adjusters are very cheap and last forever. Should be in every growers toolkit, even if rarely used.

I disagree... I threw mine out... up and down is loaded with heavy metals.... I have not bothered to check ph at all anymore... don't even know or care what my city water is at....