Question about extremely hungry active hydroponic plants

[growsince79]

How did you handle it? Do you just change the entire water at the end of the day and maybe check levels of everything through out? What do you do when it is taking water levels at that rate?

Top off and adjust ppm daily. Flush and change every week.

 

[Dr.Green55]

@Cashmeh I can't edit my last post, I don't like the way I wrote it, I did not mean it to be personal but it reads that way my apologies. So let me explain myself a bit more and my thinking, doesn't mean anyone has to agree what so every but this is my thinking

I was speaking about temp and growth rates only, whether one runs sterile or live I have no care either way do what you like. My opinion is as stated the temps we were talking about really doesn't make any difference in growth rate because that is one input that still has to be in balance with with everything else, there is 9 parameters that need to be balanced

This is how I look at water temp, most literature says 68 to 72 for sweet spot many reasons for that, I'm not going into all of them, but rather the ones I judge to have the most impact, others may see it differently, but for me temp, solubility and metabolism are all tied together

Temp is the biggest factor in how much oxygen water can hold, but atmospheric pressure, current, salinity also contribute to solubility. but the oxygen in the water can't be greater then its saturation level for its temp.

So the max saturation for dissolved oxygen in 70F water is 9 ppm as temp goes up it is less as temp comes down its more. we all no the many benefits of having DO in water, unless something has been updated to my knowledge most plants require about 8 ppm of DO for optimal growth , the amount of DO and temp effects Nutrient uptake and metabolism. lower rates at 68 higher at 72

Another factor to consider is the nutrient strength or EC/PPM, the stronger the solution ( EC ) the more dissolved solids in the water, the more DS there is the less DO there is as its displaced

So very basically what does this mean, At 67/68 I'm going to run a different nutrient solution then I would at 73/74 because my DO, nutrient uptake metabolism are going to be different, and the same goes for 73/74 I'm going to run a different profile to match that. VPD also effects to nutrient uptake, so if my profile is different at the different temps so isn't my VPD, running that wrong could say easily give me k deficiency even though its plenty there. and the same for other parameters

So my opinion is regardless if you run at a higher or lower temp as long as all your parameters are balanced as optimal as you can get them, growth rate between the temps shouldn't be anything meaningfully different. Again this is just very basic.

 

[Cashmeh]

@Cashmeh I can't edit my last post, I don't like the way I wrote it, I did not mean it to be personal but it reads that way my apologies. So let me explain myself a bit more and my thinking, doesn't mean anyone has to agree what so every but this is my thinking

I was speaking about temp and growth rates only, whether one runs sterile or live I have no care either way do what you like. My opinion is as stated the temps we were talking about really doesn't make any difference in growth rate because that is one input that still has to be in balance with with everything else, there is 9 parameters that need to be balanced

This is how I look at water temp, most literature says 68 to 72 for sweet spot many reasons for that, I'm not going into all of them, but rather the ones I judge to have the most impact, others may see it differently, but for me temp, solubility and metabolism are all tied together

Temp is the biggest factor in how much oxygen water can hold, but atmospheric pressure, current, salinity also contribute to solubility. but the oxygen in the water can't be greater then its saturation level for its temp.

So the max saturation for dissolved oxygen in 70F water is 9 ppm as temp goes up it is less as temp comes down its more. we all no the many benefits of having DO in water, unless something has been updated to my knowledge most plants require about 8 ppm of DO for optimal growth , the amount of DO and temp effects Nutrient uptake and metabolism. lower rates at 68 higher at 72

Another factor to consider is the nutrient strength or EC/PPM, the stronger the solution ( EC ) the more dissolved solids in the water, the more DS there is the less DO there is as its displaced

So very basically what does this mean, At 67/68 I'm going to run a different nutrient solution then I would at 73/74 because my DO, nutrient uptake metabolism are going to be different, and the same goes for 73/74 I'm going to run a different profile to match that. VPD also effects to nutrient uptake, so if my profile is different at the different temps so isn't my VPD, running that wrong could say easily give me k deficiency even though its plenty there. and the same for other parameters

So my opinion is regardless if you run at a higher or lower temp as long as all your parameters are balanced as optimal as you can get them, growth rate between the temps shouldn't be anything meaningfully different. Again this is just very basic.

I dont know why people focus on DO so much. I understand theres a max amount of o2 that can be in water. But its like increasing my o2 intake when im young and saying ill grow faster. I wont, but now if you put me in the amazon working hard, I will grow way faster than if I was in the arctic. When our blood heats up, we are more efficient. The same goes with a plants metabolism. I would focus on speeding up the plants metabolism. Warm water does this, and as long as there is available 02 in the water, the plant will grow just fine. Some things dont matter for the plant, like if im running 2000ppms of co2 and i up it to 4000ppms of co2, it will literally do nothing. Thats what DO does, theres a sweet spot, and below that matters, but above that does not.
As for running different nutrient solutions, I dont. I run the same veg solution for every different strain/pheno and I run the same flower solution. Ive ran 6 strains the same hydro system before and they all did just fine sharing the same res.
My bbs use my 02, my plant uses my 02, so you would think with your thought process, by running 74F, I would have nothing but 02 issues correct?
I get there are alot of variables, and sure, if I increase my light, I will need to increase my ac to keep the same 77f leaf temp.
Here let me find some 2 week growth pictures, like the proof is in the pudding right?
Do me a favor, try to act as if those of us on here are running 72f because the plants grow faster. Try to assume why thats happening instead of saying its not. I can assure you that im not the only one on here who states these things. Im just the one who likes to argue their points the most. . . but do me favor, and try it. . . or assume it could be correct. Im not gonna give names, but one of most intelligent guys on here is the one who explain this to me. I am just not as good at explaining it, but ill still try.

Any two week photo with 74f vs the 66f will be noticably different. So many have already been convinced of what im saying. If your not yet, what would you need to see to understand it.

 

[Dr.Green55]

Well I don't come back to argue, and I didn't come back to assume or do a favor etc. I ran Hydro for over 20 years + I'd like to think I learned something in that time,, and they wasn't tent grows not that there is anything wrong with that, it was just much larger scale, now I just have my own setup and grow smaller scale. how long was you getting from clone to your first pic , I'd like to see a closer up of the plants, is that 2 weeks of all veg or veg/flower, I'm assuming thats at least a month of growth from clone to last pic and assuming how tall they are its an inch or 2 average growth per day at most on the tall ones and less then that on the shorter ones , its hard to tell but the 2 on the left doesn't look like they quite doubled and the right may have but the upper look different then the lower, so it looks stretchy, in fact from what I can see I'd say the one on the left front is showing slow growth where as the one on the right front is showing very stretchy growth, looks to me like your k to N ratio is out of wack. and I'm not going to argue that any grower on here shouldn't be impressed with it. But in my circle that is nothing remarkable, that growth is easily exceeded in cooler water. and I'll also say it can be achieved with a better morphology and brix at the very least, those pics only reinforce to me what i'm says. I really don't think you understand the scope of what many growers are doing in these facility, how their doing it and what there achieving. but it doesn't matter if it large scale or small it all transfers, So there is no conversation here to have, and to finish your last sentence I can assure you I have seen far more then you can understand.

 

[Cashmeh]

Well I don't come back to argue, and I didn't come back to assume or do a favor etc. I ran Hydro for over 20 years + I'd like to think I learned something in that time,, and they wasn't tent grows not that there is anything wrong with that, it was just much larger scale, now I just have my own setup and grow smaller scale. how long was you getting from clone to your first pic , I'd like to see a closer up of the plants, is that 2 weeks of all veg or veg/flower, I'm assuming thats at least a month of growth from clone to last pic and assuming how tall they are its an inch or 2 average growth per day at most on the tall ones and less then that on the shorter ones , its hard to tell but the 2 on the left doesn't look like they quite doubled and the right may have but the upper look different then the lower, so it looks stretchy, in fact from what I can see I'd say the one on the left front is showing slow growth where as the one on the right front is showing very stretchy growth, looks to me like your k to N ratio is out of wack. and I'm not going to argue that any grower on here shouldn't be impressed with it. But in my circle that is nothing remarkable, that growth is easily exceeded in cooler water. and I'll also say it can be achieved with a better morphology and brix at the very least, those pics only reinforce to me what i'm says. I really don't think you understand the scope of what many growers are doing in these facility, how their doing it and what there achieving. but it doesn't matter if it large scale or small it all transfers, So there is no conversation here to have, and to finish your last sentence I can assure you I have seen far more then you can understand.

All wrong. Two different strains 4 different phenos. 3 week veg from first set opening. Again all 4 got the same feed, no fan leaf issues.

Doing the same thing over and over for 20 years is not the same as 20 years of hydro growing experience.

If your experienced in hydro you would understand what a live hydro system is. Not saying you cant grow good weed, but so far everyone who is reading your comments understand you could never finish a grow with 74f water temps, therefor you will never be able to prove yourself wrong, let alone me proving you wrong. Im here for the readers, not the people who already know it all, yet have never actually done anything differently than everyone else.

I love your arrogance really, its quite funny how you dont come back to argue, yet end with me not knowing anything lol. . go run some trials of your own and quit relying on others and old data.

Those pictures were taken at week 3. . and at week 5. . from seed. . not clones.. . in a 4x4 under a 1000w HPS. . the full diary is here somewhere if you want to study. 0 res changes, ending ppm was 500. . only top offs. . 0 enzymes added, 0 corrosives. . all cell walls intact in my res for 2 months. You understand the bare minimum in regards to hydro.

What other misconceptions would you like me to clear up?

 

[Dr.Green55]

yeah pretty obvious different strain didn't think I had to point that out lol, nice assumptions on what you think I have done or didn't, your pic tells me all I need to know

 

[Cashmeh]

yeah pretty obvious different strain didn't think I had to point that out lol, nice assumptions on what you think I have done or didn't, your pic tells me all I need to know

Apparently what you know, doesnt matter. All that matters is that anyone reading this knows how to try it for themselves. This is testable. .easily. .

How about this plant. 74f average temp. . 4x4. . 1000w lights. . 6.5ft tall tent. 0 peroxide or h2o2, or enzymes. . 0 res changes. . whats it telling you? Teach us. . cause im quite sure if I had learned hydro from you I would be constantly waisting nutrients with res changes, id constantly be adding corrosives. Id be operating a chiller lol. . and that shit wouldnt be able to fill the 4x4 in the same time. I urge you to prove us wrong. Show us we can teach an old dog new tricks. Go try it for yourself. . or just study these forums.

I also never shut up or stop replying. So if you want continue looking educated on here, I'd stop while you think your ahead, cause im not going anywhere.

 

[Dr.Green55]

See your trying to make this into pissing match or dick swing match, but in my eye your just making yourself look like donkey, people who ready this can think whatever they want I don't care either way.

Again whats so remarkable about that plant? your trying to make about live vs sterile and all this other crap you keep injecting, If I can grow or you can grow, if my weed is good or yours etc, I'm not into that childish bullshit, fucking grow up, My point was about temp, had nothing to do with live or sterile or you as a grower or your grow methods etc

My point was simple temperature and growth rate, full stop, I'm not trying to look educated or impress anyone I grew out of my child hood years along time ago, I'm talking of my experience, where it was small grows or large one, by myself or with team of people including botanist or just plan other growers I know, and that is growth rate in cool temps can easily match anything you said or posted. and in my experience I can run in cool temps, with the same growth and health, as someone running a higher temp with a different method, and lab tested verifiable I've been down that road. And you clearly don't understand res changes/nutes nothing goes to waste.

So i'm not going to get in a pissing match over it, I'm stating from my experience and what I know, and anyone is welcome to consider it, agree or disagree with, make no difference. your welcome to post and talk all you want.

 

[Cashmeh]

See your trying to make this into pissing match or dick swing match, but in my eye your just making yourself look like donkey, people who ready this can think whatever they want I don't care either way.

Again whats so remarkable about that plant? your trying to make about live vs sterile and all this other crap you keep injecting, If I can grow or you can grow, if my weed is good or yours etc, I'm not into that childish bullshit, fucking grow up, My point was about temp, had nothing to do with live or sterile or you as a grower or your grow methods etc

My point was simple temperature and growth rate, full stop, I'm not trying to look educated or impress anyone I grew out of my child hood years along time ago, I'm talking of my experience, where it was small grows or large one, by myself or with team of people including botanist or just plan other growers I know, and that is growth rate in cool temps can easily match anything you said or posted. and in my experience I can run in cool temps, with the same growth and health, as someone running a higher temp with a different method, and lab tested verifiable I've been down that road. And you clearly don't understand res changes/nutes nothing goes to waste.

So i'm not going to get in a pissing match over it, I'm stating from my experience and what I know, and anyone is welcome to consider it, agree or disagree with, make no difference. your welcome to post and talk all you want.

I see you still dont understand that plants grow faster in warmer water. There is nothing you are your wack job friends can show anyone to prove otherwise. Growth rates in cool water temps, not air temps silly, see your comparing the too. You have never grown a plant successfully in warmer water. . we all understand this. Now your just posting your useless resume. I can show you someone elses pictures but im not gonna drag them in here lol. .

I love you how say your talking about temps, not live or sterile, as if they are not directly related. Again, that brain of yours has you thinking you know it all when you clearly dont. Im thankfull i will always be teachable. . just glad i didnt learn from the likes of you.

As for res changes, corrosives and enzymes. . all related to sterile vs live. Study the shrimp biofloc mehtod where they ditched the amonia filters and replaced them with natural bacteria. . . sure its more challenging to run a natural ecosystem. But i can assure you that your corrosives are not helping your plant any. So while people like you continue to fail combating microbes, people like me will continue to use more natural sources.

Ask yourself this. How can he properly feed a plant without doing res changes. How does he not get root rot at 74f. Then most importantly, why does a plants metabolism speed up when its roots are placed in warmer water. Why would he add a heater instead of a chiller. How can he get dispensary quality weed. How does he not burn his plants with a 1000w light in a 4x4. . 2ft away from canopy. Why does he not need to add enzymes.

We both have alot to learn, ill agree, its just you happen to be convinced of something your bias against. Go test it like everyone else. . no one cares about what you think. Im only here so everyone reading your horseshit can still innovte.

 

[Dr.Green55]

You Know I don't mind having a conversation with anyone, But now your really just whining like a little school kid thats not getting his/her way, and you can't even get your facts straight you need to go back and read what I first wrote, your sounding all butt hurt is that because its not only about your way.

I clearly stated there is a couple ways to do things fundamentally different but both end up in the same place with a high quality product. no where did I knock any method, or say live wasn't as good , so is there something your not comprehending, or are you just all but hurt I didn't say it has to be live or nothing

I also mention and meant that its not just about the system there is a skill set that goes with each, and clearly said do the way you know best? is there something there that your not comprehending ?

I then clearly stated some of what I have ran in the past, I'm not going to ask because you clearly did not comprehend that

I then mention temps and I rather run sterile meaning if I went back to RDWC from DTW, I'm not sure if its the temp part or the sterile part thats got you all butt hurt, now most of what your saying is just conjecture, just like a little girl not getting her way lol, try to stick to some of what i'm says.

First I understand thats there is an optimal range for RZT, yes there is a low optimal and a high optimal , and between the 2 there is very little growth difference, I know that from my own experience, where I have been and what I have done, again go read my first post, again your having a comprehending issue there, I understand those are my experience along with many other people a long the way, I'm just stating it, anyone is welcome to consider it agree or disagree thats up to them. but at least I can say that from practical experience. My experience not from anyone else. I could copy and past pages after pages showing optimal range is what I'm saying, and i'm sure I could post others that say something a little different, but I'm talking my practical experience in all the methods

just because I don't run live doesn't for one minute mean I can't or don't have experience doing so, I was considering going that way a while back, but for what I wanted its hard to get here and pricey. thats why its not my preferred method, The fast majority of time I run with well water and nothing else, I didn't run this summer, if I would have I probably would have went sterile to be safe, but i'll start in sept. with just straight well water, and I don't run with a chiller, I made it so I didn't need one. still comprehending

Calling my friends wack job lol, thats just a pretty sad way to grasp at straws to make yourself feel good, But whats really sad is you nothing of them and who some of them on list maybe.

Also where did I compare air temps to water temps, when I mention VPD, that was not comparing them, but if a room is running quite hot or cold , it is beneficial to run the RZT a little warmer or cool then you normally opposite of the room temp.

The rest is just pretty much conjecture and rambling, I'll give you this though I usually don't spend this much time on Fu**ing re***ds so you got all the time your getting. Feel free to write and post whatever nonsense you want to make your inner child feel better. I'm out.

 

[Cashmeh]

You Know I don't mind having a conversation with anyone, But now your really just whining like a little school kid thats not getting his/her way, and you can't even get your facts straight you need to go back and read what I first wrote, your sounding all butt hurt is that because its not only about your way.

I clearly stated there is a couple ways to do things fundamentally different but both end up in the same place with a high quality product. no where did I knock any method, or say live wasn't as good , so is there something your not comprehending, or are you just all but hurt I didn't say it has to be live or nothing

I also mention and meant that its not just about the system there is a skill set that goes with each, and clearly said do the way you know best? is there something there that your not comprehending ?

I then clearly stated some of what I have ran in the past, I'm not going to ask because you clearly did not comprehend that

I then mention temps and I rather run sterile meaning if I went back to RDWC from DTW, I'm not sure if its the temp part or the sterile part thats got you all butt hurt, now most of what your saying is just conjecture, just like a little girl not getting her way lol, try to stick to some of what i'm says.

First I understand thats there is an optimal range for RZT, yes there is a low optimal and a high optimal , and between the 2 there is very little growth difference, I know that from my own experience, where I have been and what I have done, again go read my first post, again your having a comprehending issue there, I understand those are my experience along with many other people a long the way, I'm just stating it, anyone is welcome to consider it agree or disagree thats up to them. but at least I can say that from practical experience. My experience not from anyone else. I could copy and past pages after pages showing optimal range is what I'm saying, and i'm sure I could post others that say something a little different, but I'm talking my practical experience in all the methods

just because I don't run live doesn't for one minute mean I can't or don't have experience doing so, I was considering going that way a while back, but for what I wanted its hard to get here and pricey. thats why its not my preferred method, The fast majority of time I run with well water and nothing else, I didn't run this summer, if I would have I probably would have went sterile to be safe, but i'll start in sept. with just straight well water, and I don't run with a chiller, I made it so I didn't need one. still comprehending

Calling my friends wack job lol, thats just a pretty sad way to grasp at straws to make yourself feel good, But whats really sad is you nothing of them and who some of them on list maybe.

Also where did I compare air temps to water temps, when I mention VPD, that was not comparing them, but if a room is running quite hot or cold , it is beneficial to run the RZT a little warmer or cool then you normally opposite of the room temp.

The rest is just pretty much conjecture and rambling, I'll give you this though I usually don't spend this much time on Fu**ing re***ds so you got all the time your getting. Feel free to write and post whatever nonsense you want to make your inner child feel better. I'm out.

Please copy and paste the optimal RTZ temp marijuana hydro studies please. This autta be hilarious. Just make sure they are studying growth rates of the plants and not pythium. .

Bring us the facts. . fuck our opinions right. Go ahead, prove me correct