ganja_guy52 said:

great plants waayne, quick questions i want to try those smart pots (20 gal.), and i wanted to know how much water do you use per pot & how do you control your ph??
thanx

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I give the 20 gallon Smart Pots 3 - 3 1/2 gallons
of my well water which is a 7.2 - 7.3 PH
I adjust my soil PH to about 6.2 or so and the 7.2 PH water balances the soil out to 6.4 - 6.6
I always add Dolomite lime to my soil mix and it is pretty stable, I rarely have PH swings or PH problems.....
I frequently test my soil mix's PH and my H2o.....

Yield Booster

Anyone using smart pots/fabric pots should consider the velcro tape for training purposes.


Oh yeah. Please don't listen to anything I post. Prank caller! Prank caller!

The Joker said:

That's it, no special sauce with organics?

Veg longer. *sigh*

So what I've learned.... you will pay more in electrical because of increased veg time.

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Joker asked the question himself and most overlooked it or dont understand the answers. Why? We aint all on the same level.

True the only reason I saw and see to stop what your saying is because Joker himself reached out and asked. Mrbong replied with a very knowledgeable response. Do u know about his mix? No. So why u try to discredit his answer and replace it with yours? Do u know more about organics or soil then Mrbong? I dont think so. If u did u would have seen the proportions and known about the ingredients involved. And we wouldn't be talking about this at all.

You are telling Joker to pay attention to his own stuff, look at his own grow. But he only knows what he knows. He has tried and he is now seeking help. Unless u have something better and thus more knowledgeable to his particular situation then fine put it out there. But we shouldn't try to say he doesnt need to do this, unless u have facts to why it can be harmful from personal experience. And you did not have that, or u could have said no dont do this because of this specifically. U were right in bringing that VPD and all that other shit up. But mane your mix is a big part of environment also. Until u have that down, u aint got shit. Take that to the bank.

Anyway mrbong put his secret sauce out there. If u notice or not up to u. If u take time to understand it, its up to you. But dont try to discredit it because u dont understand it.

waayne said:

I give the 20 gallon Smart Pots 3 - 3 1/2 gallons
of my well water which is a 7.2 - 7.3 PH
I adjust my soil PH to about 6.2 or so and the 7.2 PH water balances the soil out to 6.4 - 6.6
I always add Dolomite lime to my soil mix and it is pretty stable, I rarely have PH swings or PH problems.....
I frequently test my soil mix's PH and my H2o.....

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before i ph, my water is at like 8-9, i bring it dwn to 6.5-7, water, then after i check sum run off its real low 4-5(really reddish/orange) could this possibly cause nute lock-out of some sorts?

Lots of good posts here. I agree with most of post 1. I am strictly organic now for about a year. At first from switching from chems. I def noticed a slow down, overall. Vigor in veg and bud production in flower. It took awhile of tweeking. But the key is in the mix for the full cycle. Its got to be really powerful. Over the top, IMO. After switching to a 50/50 split of Alfalfa and Soybean meals. Also upping a few ingredients. I quickly found the sweet spot to run full cycle with lush harvests and stellar results. Ppl focus on PH too much when their running full organic. My water is 8.2 going in. Never PH'd in over a year. The mix will buffer it and contain it as along as its really powerful. While you might not ever get the speed of hydro, thus turn times per year if yield is your sole focus. A really hot mix will push them really hard. Best of luck.

mrbong73 said:

Anyone using smart pots/fabric pots should consider the velcro tape for training purposes.


Oh yeah. Please don't listen to anything I post. Prank caller! Prank caller!

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Nice, I like, never thought bout velcro'in the smarties.

dextr0 said:

Joker asked the question himself and most overlooked it or dont understand the answers. Why? We aint all on the same level.

True the only reason I saw and see to stop what your saying is because Joker himself reached out and asked. Mrbong replied with a very knowledgeable response. Do u know about his mix? No. So why u try to discredit his answer and replace it with yours? Do u know more about organics or soil then Mrbong? I dont think so. If u did u would have seen the proportions and known about the ingredients involved. And we wouldn't be talking about this at all.

You are telling Joker to pay attention to his own stuff, look at his own grow. But he only knows what he knows. He has tried and he is now seeking help. Unless u have something better and thus more knowledgeable to his particular situation then fine put it out there. But we shouldn't try to say he doesnt need to do this, unless u have facts to why it can be harmful from personal experience. And you did not have that, or u could have said no dont do this because of this specifically. U were right in bringing that VPD and all that other shit up. But mane your mix is a big part of environment also. Until u have that down, u aint got shit. Take that to the bank.

Anyway mrbong put his secret sauce out there. If u notice or not up to u. If u take time to understand it, its up to you. But dont try to discredit it because u dont understand it.

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STFU already. Seriously. What are you talking about? Im not discrediting anything. Im saying its not needed. A simple base soil, organic nute and ample training will give Joker the yields he is looking for. You are just talking out your ass at this point.

Obviously you don't realize Joker is not a newb that is having problems with his grow- he is just asking about possibilities to improve yield with organics or make it comparable to soilless/chems. He doesn't need a how to on bugs/insects/etc. Or a bunch of soil mixes. Or how to grow. Etc. Flat out its not needed. he is asking if yields are comparable and possible thats all.

I don't like swinging my dick around, so I'll leave it at that. but now im back to organics and helping others wade through the extra work/bs/and crap to get to the point and start producing the best/most/and easiest way possible.

Plain and simple- just because you like mixing soil like mr.bong (who I don't know, haven't knocked on, or discredited) doesn't mean its the best. I know people who probably do know more about organics than you or mr. bong and many others on here. Does it mean they grow the best dank? Fuck No. Plain and simple. the proof is in the pudding and often adding a bunch of extra work fucks up your pudding. I laugh my ass off after listening to die hard organics lectures by very knowledgable people and then see/try their meds (which they are always so 'organically' nose up prideful about). Some are very nice, most are not. Its simply just a matter of grower and basic knowledge and consistency.

Ive found that solely die hard organic growers are much more confident in their finished product regardless of quality, are extremely set in their ways (as evidenced by you), and don't always acknowledge that change can be good. Ive spent years of trial and error...honestly those who know me, know my standards and from that trial and error my regimen is much less and my dank is much better. But again, sharing shortcuts and all the shit thats not needed brings on stupid convo like this....which is why i don't even bother half the time. Just piped up cuz it was the homie Joker.

and fyi, I did put forth plenty of alternative and helpful suggestions.

Joker- im bout done with this thread, have plenty of other organics crap/shortcuts/not needed stuff if you are interested just shoot me a pm. My synopsis- use something simple like age old, and concentrate on training and genetics. You know how it is- genetics are genetics and thats the biggest role in top dank and production...the rest is just details and consistency.

Joker, true was right about needing to limit your veritable. We just have different views on protecting the ones we love (the plants). When I see someones soil mix, or plant responding badly to the soil, all I can think of is something bleeding in the middle of the ocean. Letting everything in the neighborhood know that its now vulnerable to attack.

Do u know about brix? Well I myself know very little, I am sorry to say. But here is what I do know. Plants with high brix are less susceptible to verious insects. Why? http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2401/ Read up. I will say that Brix has as little to do with sugars as a bowl of cereal. Why? It aint just about tha sugar, u got more shit involved.

Ok so whats involved and why dont I get to the point. Because their is no easy point in organics. Its a big environment that involves alot of different players with different roles. We set up barriers for those players and try and help them help us. And they will as long as you help them. When u apply sprays and shit this may be detrimental to the organisms that are helping you. Boosters. Well we know that high amounts of different nutrients will kill them also. This in turn makes that environment unusable next time, or maybe just to where u have to reapply everything and everyone each and every time.

Let me get back to the soil mix though. We found with brix that one way to actually get high brix is to work on your soil mix. A healthy soil will feed the plant properly to give the plant the needed nutrients to produce the chemicals that are used in their natural defense systems. That means that an improper soil mix, with the incorrect proportions of nutrients available to the plant and the microbes and organisms that are naturally there will do nothing for the plant but attract the wrong kind of attention because of what is in the soil. Not because I was not diligent in keeping my surrounding area clean, or of nice temperatures for the plant that is dying of starvation and consequently also getting 3x what it needs of this nutrient which only serves to lock out other nutrients and make things worse only because the person who thinks hes in control knows not a damn thing. What u just did was make a vacation area for these pests to go eat and thrive. Look this dude is destroying everything he just built and killing that food for us, lets go in for the kill.

A good soil mix sets barriers for certain pests. Not all but, look the plant also has its own mechanisms. Guess what that involves organisms that create enzymes that are used by the plant to produce secondary metabolites. What are those? Well some are excretions that are used as deterrence to other kinds of insects. Its a circle. Let these things do their job and help yourself...also study up.

well now that thats over with, j/k fellas har har, but uh, i know were talking about yield n shite but wat about increasing potency organically? im gud w/ my yield not being super, potency is what i want? quality over quantity in my case. any ideas?

ganja_guy52 said:

well now that thats over with, j/k fellas har har, but uh, i know were talking about yield n shite but wat about increasing potency organically? im gud w/ my yield not being super, potency is what i want? quality over quantity in my case. any ideas?

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Whether its quality or quantity, It all starts with a good soil mix in organics. The bottom line is the less problems the more the plant can do. Take it easy with the extras and just make sure the food is there if you need it. Not immediately available but there. Then if u need it u make the microbes etc, work harder by feeding them and giving them energy to work and feed. Which in turn will release more nutrients to the plant so it can grow and get fatter. You can also do this when u need to. But if u have the right mix thats all u need to work with.

ganja_guy52 said:

any ideas?

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Different strain?
Like Grandpappy said "You can't shine Shit!"

Not that you have shit. Just sayin'

What we're all trying to do or should be trying to do is remove limiting factors.
Yield limiting factors
Potency limiting factors, etc.

Giving the plant what it needs and letting it do the work is one way to go about it.

mrbong73 said:

Different strain?
Like Grandpappy said "You can't shine Shit!"

Not that you have shit. Just sayin'

What we're all trying to do or should be trying to do is remove limiting factors.
Yield limiting factors
Potency limiting factors, etc.

Giving the plant what it needs and letting it do the work is one way to go about it.

Click to expand...

Right, because if you dont what happens? U over apply. Im not saying you cant learn to adjust everything. Trial and error can take u far. But why go there if all I need is a good teacher and some understanding to get me through it.

This is what I know:

1. A good organic soil mix will not burn your plants. There is not enough nutrients readily available to kill life. Everything is there to sustain life or deter. Not to kill though.

2. Few of us actually know the proportions of each ingredient that is in our mix or in our bottle of ferts. Bottled ferts also have only a percentage of nutrients that are readily avalible. The more u know about what is going on in your mix and the less bottles you use the more u know about what is going on in your garden and what is actually there.

3. The only way to understand anything is to learn its ways. Until we step back and learn organic ways, we will know shit about organics.

4. Organic grows can have as good a yield as anything else all other variables the same. But this requires understanding how your plant can thrive without being assaulted by infestation or diseases long enough to be pushed at the appropriate time. We are also organic and have a hand in this process.

5. No program or regiment is infallible. There are always cracks and new considerations to take into account in everything.

But If we do what we can and surround ourselves with like minded people who are knowledgeable we figure shit out. Its our job to look into things also, make sure its right. U wanna know how to grow organically and get big yields, there's only one way. Boost at the right time. Have every thing come together at the right time. Everything has its time and purpose. Do we understand it wholey? No. Does this make it not real or not true. No. But because this person does not know or understand this (or what he is supposed to use) he loses out on what can be.

Organic growing takes an understanding of our environment and how it relates to us and how we relate to it. That is what growing has taught me. You cannot continue growing past a certain stage when u have to fight all the time. Your plant will waste its energy's trying to do it though. Rest assured.

A good enviorment, filled with good things is good for your plant. And Yield.

What I did was ask two growers whose plants look kick ass what they did: Pure Green and Sannie. Sannies methods worked well with sat Dom phenos. I also wanted to work with a system I could get locally without having to order from Holland , so I tried Pure Greens method and a combo.
Sannies was super easy. Tabs , mycchos biweekly, bloom booster starting in flower. I used guano tea.
Now that I was running Pure Kush... Yield is less than normal which was small to begin with.

The Blueberry I'm running is an old cut that's been around. Yields huge.

I have 7 PK in week 4 , would it screw them up to start giving them GH? The two PK testers I ran with teas look like they will yield less than a zip each.
I have 5 BB in week 2 of flower and 7 more in veg. The 5 in flower got Sannies tabs and I was planning on popping in 4 more.

I was going to run some Chemdog D and BB in a cab soil less with gh and budswel.

I appreciate the answers here. It may be I only run high yielding sativa Dom plants organic and stick to Canna or GH for indicas.

I don't know how to do the cool you tube link thing but check this out.
He seems to be on to something.
Then again maybe it's just smoke and mirrors.


Good luck Joker.

The Joker said:

I have 7 PK in week 4 , would it screw them up to start giving them GH?

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Nope not really, just remember how much hotter the GH is than the organic regimen. If you start feed like you normally would in soil less, you will burn the shit out of your PK's. Normally I flush when changing nutes, but if you've just been doing teas, you shouldnt have to. You will probably have to feed very little of the chems in comparison to organic ferts. For example- in soil I can feed age old at around 8-10ml/g until i need to push hard due to whats already there, in coco with age old nothing less 15-20ml/g would keep em happy. And yes you can run organics in soil less, my coco plants looked the same as with chems and grew just as fast. Just remember you will probably be feeding closer to recommended dosage in soilless since there is no soil/hot stuff present already.

I'll be doing a coco bed with organics this run Joker, I'll keep ya posted if they grow the same vigor etc as soil plants.

Thanks. I gave them a dose of 5-600 ppm at .5 on the truncheon. Very Mild with a little Koolbloom, Calmag plus and Floralicious plus.

The others are all still getting teas.

I've just read that hygrozyme in organics is a flavor killer. People use it at 2pm per gallon . I used it at 10 ml per gallon. In a side by side posted at TCC It looks like it killed mycchos.
Could explain the lackluster growth and taste.

ever heard of nemathodes they kill the mayority of all soil borne bugs or bugs that will hurt your plants root systems and die of when they dont find a new food sorce.
I personally say the enviroment is 50-70% off the succses rate in a grow the rest is strain and not overwatering your babys and give them good dry out periodes help alot
just my 2 cent
good luck and have fun with your garrden

so hygrozyme kills mycchos

That's what I'm reading. I'm not over watering. I've done everything by the book with two variables that stand out:
1. Recovery time from up potting to the final container. Transplanting then putting info the flower room immediately stunts growth.
2. I've now read two seperate threads stating that the use of hygrozyme had a negative effect on mycchos and plants organically grown with it had diminished taste.

Joker I don't use Hygrozyme in flower for the very reason you state...
I do use it on my moms occasionally....
I think you'll find it's not really necessary to use it in flower when growing in Organic soil...

I'm still not sure why transplanting them when you put them into flower would stunt them, while that's not the most advantageous time to transplant them, It shouldn't stunt their growth. Unless they were severely root bound before the transplant.
Ideally I like to transplant them 8-12 days before they go into flower>>but sometimes that's just not possible....
I've transplanted plants in flower as late as 14 days in with no ill effects...
Here's a 6 foot tall Fire Alien that went into flower 8 days before it could be transplanted into a 20 gallon Smart Pot.
While I wouldn't recommend doing this it did not cause any problems or slow her down any....
She went on to yield a little over 13 oz's.
I have stunted plants going into flower by increasing their light intensity too fast and stressing them with too much UV to soon though.