mandalaman said:

Interesting.... did not know this....

Did you all?

View attachment 666113
View attachment 666114

Click to expand...

just a sales tactic....not actually the truth
there are I believe a bunch that make actual agro bulbs
true agro bulbs
Growers Choice
Ushio
Philips
Eye Horti
Solis Tek

and all are great choices

philips is the original but not the only one

Wisher619 said:

when you water are the pots like....Really Heavy? Completely saturated
if you want your girls to pray
in a medium like super soil
you have to allow it a dry time
so when you soak
if you actually time lapsed it
you will see that the plant will go from droopy to straight out to straight up back to droopy
usually when your plants are praying you are dialed right on the edge perfectly for your plants needs
it is not a feed/nutrient thing rather a H2O/O
in the root zone

I also agree with ditching the dirt
but I will side with keeping the dirt just so you can study it and figure it out

soil is cool and my outdoor goes straight in the ground
but indoor soil.....for me....effing nightmare
white flies/gnats etc.....made me want to loose my mind
as clean as I kept my space......just didnt matter

I found coco to be the best medium I have ever used

hell I once amended coco with all organic inputs and trichoderma/Mycos and let it cool for a month
grew amazing pot with just tap water no filter

but to me
to dial it it
just pure coco and a really clean nutrient
I can really dial my feed and get my girls humming

Click to expand...

Ditto 100% but then it's not uncommon I would happen to agree with you lol.
I do garner most my education from you...
Simplicity.... I haven't always heeded the warning but I see just how important it is when I don't have time for my plants. That's when you notice how much simplicity matters...
Don't ever think the old lady might not get jealous over how much time you spend with the girls lol
Haha haha. Mine would 9th at least lol

Wisher619 said:

when you water are the pots like....Really Heavy? Completely saturated
if you want your girls to pray
in a medium like super soil
you have to allow it a dry time
so when you soak
if you actually time lapsed it
you will see that the plant will go from droopy to straight out to straight up back to droopy
usually when your plants are praying you are dialed right on the edge perfectly for your plants needs
it is not a feed/nutrient thing rather a H2O/O
in the root zone

I also agree with ditching the dirt
but I will side with keeping the dirt just so you can study it and figure it out

soil is cool and my outdoor goes straight in the ground
but indoor soil.....for me....effing nightmare
white flies/gnats etc.....made me want to loose my mind
as clean as I kept my space......just didnt matter

I found coco to be the best medium I have ever used

hell I once amended coco with all organic inputs and trichoderma/Mycos and let it cool for a month
grew amazing pot with just tap water no filter

but to me
to dial it it
just pure coco and a really clean nutrient
I can really dial my feed and get my girls humming

Click to expand...

Ok. Maybe I'm just not doing Coco right. Which coco do you use. Can you give me your setup? From buying to charging etc? I'm down to try a different way.

EventHorizan said:

Ditto 100% but then it's not uncommon I would happen to agree with you lol.
I do garner most my education from you...
Simplicity.... I haven't always heeded the warning but I see just how important it is when I don't have time for my plants. That's when you notice how much simplicity matters...
Don't ever think the old lady might not get jealous over how much time you spend with the girls lol
Haha haha. Mine would 9th at least lol

Click to expand...

Very good point I had not considered @EventHorizan !

Wisher619 said:

just a sales tactic....not actually the truth
there are I believe a bunch that make actual agro bulbs
true agro bulbs
Growers Choice
Ushio
Philips
Eye Horti
Solis Tek

and all are great choices

philips is the original but not the only one

Click to expand...

That is not what that says I don't think. I understoosd it to say that within Phillips there is an Agro spectrum cmh and separate 3000/4100k cmh bulbs without the same spectrum.

mandalaman said:

Ok. Maybe I'm just not doing Coco right. Which coco do you use. Can you give me your setup? From buying to charging etc? I'm down to try a different way.

Click to expand...

Personally I don't think it's none of that. It's because you top feed. I think coco is the perfect median for flood. Fully saturated it's still got like 30% o2.
When you flood the coco 3 times a day u replenish the o2 each time... That's the difference imo......
Plus I would amend the coco and this is just my preference, in flood coco/hydroton 3/1.

Flood is sips?

mandalaman said:

Ok. Maybe I'm just not doing Coco right. Which coco do you use. Can you give me your setup? From buying to charging etc? I'm down to try a different way.

Click to expand...

I have used both Botanicare brick coco to Cana Coco
right now I am using the Cana Bag stuff
I have never charged my coco ever
those days are long gone
old schoolers do it still
the ons that had to back in the day...those people are just wasting time IMO
so for the brick
I put in a tote and fill with ro water and close the lid......a day or 2 later it is good to go
I then fill a pot and plant directly into it
as for the bag
I open fill pot and plant
with all types of coco
I immediately feed with full strength
even from seed
of which I also plant directly
@EventHorizan can attest to this
he was shocked as well
tail pops
into the coco @1.5 ec

fo feeding and watering there are to methods and both work
1. Top feeding
with this you can do one of 2 things
water every day till about 5-10% runoff
or allow to go 50% dry then water to 15% runoff
2. Sips
sit you planter in a bin of some sort and pour your feed into the bottom
fill the feed about 1" up from bottom (with standard pots or square pots)
when the feed is about dry in the basin you refill

in any case you need the coco to stay moist at all times
with coco you are feeding the coco not the plant in turn the coco feeds the plant
just like nature
this is also why I like the sips method when I am not flowering in my set up
my setup is run with Drain to Waste because I like automation
but for my veg plants I just use sips

mandalaman said:

That is not what that says I don't think. I understoosd it to say that within Phillips there is an Agro spectrum cmh and separate 3000/4100k cmh bulbs without the same spectrum.

Click to expand...

what it says is that Philips is the only manufacturer that makes an actual Agro bulb
of which I call BS
kinda like Advanced stating they are the only Cannabis Nutrient specific on the Market
Canna
Veg+Bloom
Blue Planet
the list goes on
Advanced for the longest were the only company that advertised to the cannabis market with BS like Kushie Kush and Bud Blood etc....

yeah I was just calling bs as there are many companys that run Agro CMH lights now

before companys would have there own fixture and ballast but would always come with the Philips
not anymore
and that is why that add is run
"There is only one agro ceramic metal halide lamp, 315w CDM agro by Philips Lighting"
the point was that there are many cmh bulbs,we even make some but there is only 1 agro lamp in existence and we make that as well

I just hate adverts
they make me sick
because they are a manipulation tool
always has truth surrounded with bs

truth- true agro spectrum
False- the only bulb on the market made for Agro

usually if you were to say call them and question that statement they will reply
"yes there are more on the market now but we were the first,we have the secret recipe"
and so it goes in the aggie world

hydroponics is some of the most aggressive marketing I have seen other than maybe politics
and every company has a "Mystery formula"

sorry for the rant

mandalaman said:

Flood is sips?

Click to expand...

flood and sips are similar but differ
flood would be when you have plants in a tray and you flood the tray
the nutrient rich water fills the tray and the plants soak it in
then then it drains back down
basically feeding from the bottom

ultimately when I build my room out that is what I will be running
also when I get my seedling and lettuce trays built I will be running that as well

Did you see the chart?? All three are Phillips. Not to get hung up in this. I want to read and digest all the incredible knowledge you just dropped before responding. So I can respond as thoughtfully as you shared :)

Look closely at the bulb names on this...

And read the text. Please. I want to figure this out.

Or maybe validation that I haven't gone completely mad at least. Lol.

mandalaman said:

Or maybe validation that I haven't gone completely mad at least. Lol.

Click to expand...

so if you read the first line
what it is telling you is there is only 1 agro CMH and it is made by Philips
then it goes on to state that there are others on the market but they are not plant specific
they then go on to compare their own industrial cmh lamps to their Agro specific lamp to show you the difference
they dont have permission to compare other bulbs on the market without paying those companies royalties or getting expressed permission
so they use their own

hence the very first sentence

and I quote
I will capitol key words in the sentence to highlight what they are saying
"There is ONLY ONE ceramic metal halide lamp, 315w CMD agro BY PHILIPS LIGHTING"
what that is saying is there are many cmh lights on the market
we are the only ones that make a agro specific lamp
and because of advertising laws
they cant use other company's lamps
so they compare their own agro lamp to the industrial lamps they also make
what they are NOT saying is that this lamp is the only agro lamp in their stable
what they ARE telling consumers is this
'philips lighting is the only company that makes an agro specific cmh lamp'

you see when other companys jump in the game that you have had a lockdown on
your advertisement has to sway the consumer that the other companys are just using industrial lamps but ours are specifically created for agro with many '
then the consumer assumes that all other companys are just buying standard industrial lamps and rebranding

that is how adverts work to control an manipulate the public to gain fortune and to control population

I learned alot of this while serving in the Military
I then learned even more while in cooking school in classes such as Restaurant ownership and Diet and Nutrition

very indepth classes on deception in adverts and public control

very eye opening
makes you feel like a conspiracy theorist
the problem is they arent theories
but actual orchestrated conspiracies

look up Super market advertisement and the manipulation of the consumer

computer models develop how to set up your store inorder to force consumers to purchase junk while hiding nutritious products out of the way and forcing the consumer to travel through a mirade of adverts on the shelves in order to get to what they need
you walk in the first thing you see usually is a huge soda display next to it chips and candy and beer and what ever is going on
Valentines balloons Superbowl balloons with party dips and whatnot

pretty eye opening

one of the reasons I try to help people on forums like these
there are a million ways to grow and what a magazine or a product pusher at the hydro store tells the consumer....is always geared to sell a product or outsell a product they are competing with
hydro stores have contracts with suppliers and they need to push the quota of certin products in order to keep contract as well as incentives
same with adverts and articles in Magazines

I'm sorry but you're reading the first sentence incorrectly and you're not reading the last paragraph or even looking at the chart.

I appreciate the effort though :)

this is one of tge reasons why I think forums like tgese are so important in combating this type of advert
we con openly for the most part
dispell myths about growing
or help steer in the right direction
by people whom have used many products and or grown with many differ styles and have vast knowledge in what they are doing

if you take notice
alot of the big growers on these forums do there own thing
alot use there own salt mixes and or just agg salts like JR peters
there are some people that are big and use things like Advanced or Canna
which are good nutrients

I used Botanicare CNS17 for the longest with great success
and not one of my friends could tell the difference between there grows and mine when sharing strains
and I get CNS17 for 20.00 a gallon
shit my last run I used Grow the whole run no bloom
came out perfect
again
many myths and misnomers in this industry
all there to upsell anything they can
and new growers and people that dont know will throw hard earned cash at what ever will make them better
when it isnt the product you are using but your enviroment and understanding that will up your game
and with most
the better growers become
the simpler the feed and process they use become
less is more
standardize

All that website says is they use the actual Philips Agro CMH in their fixture which shouldn't be confused with the Phillips traditional (NonAgro) 315w (Phillips part numbers 930 and 941 the NONagro version of the Phillips 315w CMH in 3 and 4K). They are pointing out a legitimate difference. Between all Phillips bulbs. They aren't even addressing or discussing non Phillips bulbs.

So let's not spread misinformation. Will you please read the entire article AND chart. I don't think you have.

mandalaman said:

I'm sorry but you're reading the first sentence incorrectly and you're not reading the last paragraph or even looking at the chart.

I appreciate the effort though :)

Click to expand...

Please dont take this the wrong way

there is no way to tell me that I am reading incorrectly

I am sorry
It specifically states they are the ONLY conpany that makes an agro cmh lamp

read the first sentence over again
please

I have also explained the chart and the last paragraph
but obviously you skipped over my explanation

DO TO ADVERTISING REGULATIONS YOU CANNOT USE OTHER MANUFACTURES ITEMS TO CONPARE TO YOUR OWN UNLESS PERMISSION IS GRANTED!!!!

that is the entire reason why they compared their own industrial lamps with their agro lamp
because they cant compare their product to other company's products

There are Three Separate Lights discussed in there maybe that's causing confusion. They are all Phillips lights. I listed them below.

1) Phillips CDM Elite Agro 315w/T12
2) Phillips CDM Elite MW 315/930 (3100k Phillips CMH)
3) Phillips CDM Elite MW 315/942 (4200k Phillips CMH)

If not. Oh well. Let's agree to disagree :)